Lanacote is another product designed to do the same thing.
Chris
On 8/10/09 10:55 AM, "Mike" <biankablog@verizon.
>
>
>
>
> I second the use of Tef Gel for preventing galvanic corrosion with disimilar
> metals. It is sticky but, it also helps to hold the screws and nuts you are
> using it on. I even found a great use for it when repairing my orphaned
> Maxwell-Nilsson VR-700 electric windlass. Which I'll be posting sometime in
> the the future. I think it's good stuff to have on board for mechanical
> connections but, NOT electrical ones.
>
> Mike
> http://biankablog.
>
> --- On Sun, 8/9/09, potatosailor <potatosailor@
> <mailto:potatosailo
>
> From: potatosailor <potatosailor@
> Subject: [Electric Boats] Tef-Gel
> To: electricboats@
> Date: Sunday, August 9, 2009, 7:30 PM
>
>
>
> I have no affiliation with the company that makes Tef-Gel but have used it
> extensively when I was the mechanical foreman at Queenship Yachtworks building
> 74 - 97 foot yachts.
> It works extremely well at preventing galling and galvanic action between
> dissimilar metals (stainless fastener into aluminum for instance)and worked
> well at eliminating a corrosion problem we were having with the stainless
> fasteners in the aluminum radar arches (we were using loctite at the time). I
> highly recommend it for its intended purpose, even though it has no locking
> proprieties I agree that it is a more appropriate product than loctite when
> coupling stainless fasteners to aluminum.
>
> Cheers, Don
>
> --- In electricboats@ yahoogroups. com, Kevin Pemberton <the_right_lane@ ...>
> wrote:
>> >
>> > Arby,
>> >
>> > There are several loctite products, with different holding properties. By
>> the name I assume that the Tef stands for Teflon an option I don't want. Part
>> of what I want is the stiction that holds the bolt in place until the bolt is
>> broken free. Use the loctite labled removable not perminant.
>> >
>> > Kevin
>> > http://simplyrv. imnugget. com
>> >
>> > For RV information
>> >
>> > --- On Sat, 8/8/09, Arby bernt <arbybernt@. ..> wrote:
>> >
>> > From: Arby bernt <arbybernt@. ..>
>> > Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] 4kw "Arby" motor?
>> > To: electricboats@ yahoogroups. com
>> > Date: Saturday, August 8, 2009, 11:11 AM
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Loctite? Use TefGel if you don't want to drill them out...
>> >
>> > Arby
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ____________ _________ _________ __
>> >
>> > From: Kevin Pemberton <the_right_lane@ yahoo.com>
>> >
>> > To: electricboats@ yahoogroups. com
>> >
>> > Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2009 1:51:44 AM
>> >
>> > Subject: RE: [Electric Boats] 4kw "Arby" motor?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > To those that want to use there installation in salt water. The use of
>> lock-tight on the threads of your stainless bolts when installed in aluminum
>> material will reduce galvanic corrosion. It is best to use plastic bushings
>> in holes the bolts pass through and a fiber washer under the head.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > A simple look at the mast of several ocean going sailboats will explain the
>> reason this is so important.
>> >
>> > Fully enclosed motors lower corrosion problems with terminals and the
>> magnetic core, but if it is not an option to keep terminals from being
>> exposed there are coatings available at marine supply stores. I suggest water
>> tight enclosures for any terminals you must deal with. Cooling the inside of
>> any enclosure can be accomplished using pelter junctions ( increasing cooling
>> increases reliability of controllers) .
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Using marine wire is by far the best way to avoid faults caused by
>> corrosion in your wiring. The difference in wire is the plating of the wire,
>> keeping salt off of the copper is a real biggie. There are many places on the
>> web that help you understand proper wiring procedure for marine usage.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > If your installation is inboard, then protecting your motor and drive train
>> is more important than if you are converting an outboard for your drive.
>> Inboard use may require stainless shafts and bearings in the motor.
>> Alternatively you might consider ceramic bearings. Believe it or not, if you
>> can keep things dry in the boat then it is likely you won't have problems
>> with your electric system for quite some time. My 83 catalina 30 was proof of
>> that in I sold it with all the original switches and junction blocks that
>> were installed at the factory. If your shaft box, or seal, leaks at all it
>> will sling salt water over everything and bearings and shafts will suffer the
>> most. There are shaft seals that will run without leaking but a standard
>> stuffing box is adjusted to drip a little while being used (All the
>> electrical that went through the engine compartment, did however have to be
>> minded to on a regular scedule to fix corrosion problems). For electric
>> >
>> > installation it is probably better to use a "drip less" setup and avoid a
>> multitude of problems including the slipping of your drive belt with water in
>> the belt drive.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > In conclusion; money spent on better seals will reduce the amount of money
>> spent water proofing everything else.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Kevin
>> >
>> > http://simplyrv. imnugget. com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > For RV information
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --- On Sat, 8/8/09, Myles Twete <matwete@comcast. net> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > From: Myles Twete <matwete@comcast. net>
>> >
>> > Subject: RE: [Electric Boats] 4kw "Arby" motor?
>> >
>> > To: electricboats@ yahoogroups. com
>> >
>> > Date: Saturday, August 8, 2009, 8:11 AM
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Arby-
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks for the tip/idea regarding using conformal coat.if I were to
>> consider
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > that, I'd consult my motor expert first.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > But with 6yrs or so now on my Etek brush motor, with nominally 20
>> excursions
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > per year, corrosion has not been an issue, period.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Refresh: my motor is bolted with stainless bolts to aluminum motor mount,
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > with aluminum fan shroud and fan directly connected to the motor with fan
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > just above the brush housing.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > All of this is under the stock outboard motor cowl. The fan pulls air up
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > thru the motor, vacating brush dust and any other 'stuff' might get sucked
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > thru the motor. It's probably one of the cleanest motors out there and the
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > cooling provided allows my motor to efficiently deliver 6HP continuous at
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > 36v.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > As regards controller-related failures, I stand by my earlier assertion
>> that
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > corrosion had nothing to do with 95% or more of the ones I've known about
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > that have failed.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > In fact, I'm being conservative with this number as I frankly have never
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > heard of someone's controller failing due to corrosion.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I'm being specific here as regards to controllers because you were
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > specifically raising conern about the 'open header' of the Sevcon
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > controller, essentially asserting it is an inferior design because of this.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I totally agree that mitigating against the effects of corrosion is
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > important in any installation and all system elements and may be cause of
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > most system problems (I wouldn't call these failures necessarily-
>> --however,
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > corrosion leading to high contact resistance that causes a battery post to
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > fail would be a failure).
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > So sure, corrosion is a major challenge.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > But please don't imply that any significant number of controller or motor
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > failures are due to corrosion--- there's just no evidence of this.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Have you posted your Mark I/II/III/etc. controller/motor specs online yet
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > for us to review? Product that is available to the public for sale should
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > have reviewable specs if discussed on this forum.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -Myles Twete, moderator, Electric Boats
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > From: electricboats@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:electricboa ts@ yahoogroups.
>> com]
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Behalf Of Arby Bernt
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 5:07 PM
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > To: electricboats@ yahoogroups. com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] 4kw "Arby" motor?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > So Miles, you're saying if you run hard aground, it means your boat broke?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Allow me to re-phrase my observation:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Most of the problems encountered in carefully installed and tested systems
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > are related to electro-mechanical interfaces. Magnet corrosion and the
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > epoxy/plating interface certianly do not fall into this catagory. I'm glad
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > to hear your motor is still going strong. I would much rather hear success
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > stories than the problems I'm usually called upon to solve.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > You might consider spraying some conformal coating in your motor if it
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > spends it's life over the water. Very flammable stuff until it dries, so
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > please be careful. I use plenty in every motor. Consider it preventative
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > maintenance. Battery terminal spray will help keep corrosion in check on >>
the
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > battery interconnects and the controller. Messy, but effective.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Be Well,
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Arby
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Aug 7, 2009, at 5:12 PM, "Myles Twete" <matwete@comcast. net
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > <mailto:matwete% 40comcast. net> > wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Arbi offered: "95% of system failures are due to electro-mechanical
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > interfaces".
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Maybe so, but that's not my experience.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > And even IF so, 99% of those failures were likely due to operator error or
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > poor installation- --i.e. poor maintenance or design.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Yes, bad solder joints, bad crimps, unclean or corroded connections are
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > responsible for high resistance that can lead to poor performance or
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > failure.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > But does that mean we stop using any of these techniques or only ever
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > connect electrical devices if within enclosures that meet arbitrary Federal
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Regulations? No.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > But let's get specific.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Speaking strictly of controller failures, as I've followed EV usage of them
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > since 1993, I'd estimate at least 95% of the failures that I have
>> personally
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > experienced or read about were NOT due to electro-mechanical interface
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > issues at all.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Rather, the primary killers are:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > . Non-existent pre-charge resistor circuit (sudden inrush into
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > controller kills bulk capacitor)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > . Marginal or non-robust controller design (don't handle brief
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > overloads gracefully and outputs get fried)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > . Insufficient thermal mounting of controller (controller overtemp)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > . Incompatibility between controller and load or motor load profile
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > (eg. running continuously at controller peak rating)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > . Blowing up controller by incorrect wiring on installation
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I have been running now with a brush motor (ETEK), Curtis or Alltrax
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > controller, T-105 batteries and have had little or no corrosion issues (a
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > couple battery connections is all).
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > While I'm not operating in a salt-water environment, my boat has been
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > continuously moored on the Columbia since 1996 and operating as an electric
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > since about 2003. I haven't a clue about meeting any Federal Regulations as
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > regards enclosures-- -is this an insurance concern or what?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I'd gladly use a Sevcon.and sure, it'd need to be protected from water (as
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > with my Alltrax), but seriously Arby, unless you are giving up on your
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > brushless motor and simple 24v brushless controller and instead packaging
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Sevcons with brush motors, why are you concerning yourself with a housing
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > that meets Federal regulations for a controller in your personal private
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > boat when you can mount your Sevcon in part of the cabin? I'd be very
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > concerned about trading off good thermal design for putting a controller in
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > a housing to ostensibly meet some regulation that you already meet by
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > locating the electronics behind a control panel. Again, contact resistance
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > issues are only responsible for failures in cases where poor maintenance or
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > installation are concerned. And that's a tiny minority of brush motor
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > controller failures. The Sevcon and Alltrax (and other) brush controllers
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > are excellent controllers and are somewhat resistant to the primary killers
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I mentioned above unlike others that are easily killed by mistakes.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -Myles Twete, Portland, Or.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > From: electricboats@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:electricboa ts%40yahoogroups
>> .com>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > [mailto:electricboa ts@ yahoogroups. com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > <mailto:electricboa ts%40yahoogroups .com> ]
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Behalf Of Arby bernt
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 5:23 PM
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > To: electricboats@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:electricboa ts%40yahoogroups
>> .com>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] 4kw "Arby" motor?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Hi Cris,
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I would like to test a motor using a 48v Sevcon controller. Brian has
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > suggested the same. I'll need to prepare a motor for an external
>> controller,
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > and a housing for the Sevcon that meets Federal Regulations. Of particular
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > note is the 3/4" conductive sphere test...as well as the obvious corrosion
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > issues posed with the open header with its plated connectors. My experience
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > has been that at least 95% of all system failures are the result of
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > electro-mechanical interfaces. The plated spring bronze receptacles on the
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Sevcon signal header and the contactor are fine for dry environments, and
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > will function fine for testing, but I would never consider them capable of
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > providing 10+ years of service-free reliability, even with an industrial
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > strength housing. There are a pair of Electric Wheel motors and controllers
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > on E-Bay. Have a look at them to see what happens when industrial
>> enclosures
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > are used in a marine enviroment.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Arby
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ____________ _________ _________ __
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > From: Chris Witzgall <chris@witzgall. org <mailto:chris% 40witzgall. org>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > <mailto:chris% 40witzgall. org> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > To: electricboats@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:electricboa ts%40yahoogroups
>> .com>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > <mailto:electricboa ts%40yahoogroups .com>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2009 10:33:44 PM
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Subject: [Electric Boats] 4kw "Arby" motor?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I would think a 48v version, perhaps that can run on 24v as well, would be
a
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > hit. Our boat, 10k lbs on paper, and more in real life, would not be
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > suitable for a 2kw motor, but might get along with a 4kw version.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Arby - if you are reading this - have you looked into the possibility of a
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > 4kw version of your motor?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Chris
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 8/6/09 10:17 AM, "aweekdaysailor" <aweekdaysailor@ yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > > We had a sail-in to Treasure Island last weekend which included 4
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > e-boaters on
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > > 3 sailboats - mine, Hans K and Kevin brought his Erickson 27 powered by
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Arby's
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > > [http://www.advanced marineelectricpr opulsion. com/] motor. Tomasz and
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > his wife
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > > came along on my boat (he's got an e-boat down in Monterey) so I got to
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > make a
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > > couple of new friends to boot.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > > It was a great day for sailing and we hit the tides well (all coming >>>
from
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > a
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > > different spot on the bay). We'll hopefully get some pictures up soon.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > > We did have a "watt race" - my boat and the Erickson running parallel
and
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > each
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > > calling off watt (amp actually) readings. This was all very
>>> un-scientific
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > but
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > > we did calibrate the ammeters and had independent observers at least.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > > Downwind, the 100% watt draw advantage (for example I was at 2KW, Kevin
at
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > > 1KW) was pretty close to true. Upwind (about 15kts) it narrowed a bit to
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > about
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > > 50-60% fewer watts advantage (i.e. I was at 2KW vs 1.5KW for Kevin)-
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > making
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > > sense with that boat being about 30% lighter and a freshly scrubbed >>>
hull.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > > (Kevin I'm going from memory, so please correct me if I mis-state). We
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > were
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > > nowhere near hullspeed - maybe 4kts down and 2-3 back.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > > I'm still nursing a set of bad batteries, comparing very different
>>> boats,
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > mine
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > > needs a scrub, props, etc -- so unfortunately I don't place much faith
in
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > the
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > > numbers - this was intended for fun more than anything else, though I'm
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > sure
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > > this will trigger some debates (what's the expected difference in those
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > hulls,
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > > etc...)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > > That said...Arby' s motor is a very sweet package - very clean, compact,
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > and
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > > very robustly assembled (so much so I'm afraid pictures taken of my >>>
setup
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > are
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > > going to end up as "before" pictures like those diet ads in the
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > tabloids...) .
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > > In particular, I think the lack of exposed wiring will be a huge
>>> advantage
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > in
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > > long-term reliability in saltwater installations.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > > I think more testing is in order before declaring it SF Bay ready for a
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > boat
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > > as large as mine (30' 9800lb), but it seemed to me a good fit for the
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Erickson
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > > and for the very large number of boats up to that size/vintage ready for
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > new
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > > motors. The 24volt package has obvious advantages as well, though I >>>
would
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > love
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > > to see 36V and 48V options.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > > YMMV, Caveat Emptor and all that - but all in all I think it deserves
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > > consideration as a legitimate option in appropriate sized vessels and
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > sailing
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > > conditions. What "appropriate" means will involve further testing,
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > experience,
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > > testimonials, etc.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > > -Keith
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>>> > >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Messages in this topic (8) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic
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