generator. The Alternator's regulator controls current to the batteries.
If you want to run a AC generator, the only good option I have found is to
use something like a Trace Engineering ( bought by Xantrex, so maybe hard to
find) SW4048 inverter, It can actually start a genset automatically if you
like, charges up to 60A, and inverts to 4000 watts when the genset is not
running. We have one in out house, which as a 2kw solar array, 400ah
48vbattery system and inverter. It is grid-tied as well.
Xantrex has a replacement, but it is something like 100lbs.
The DC generator is a more optimal solution.
Chris
On 7/17/09 12:07 PM, "Dave Hackett" <dave.hackett@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Just like everyone else, I've been struggling with this question. I'd like
> to have a setup where you can use the diesel to recharge the batteries
> AND/OR generate enough juice to propel the boat.
>
> So think of the wiring harness. Typically, you'd use a bus bar at the end
> of 4 batteries in serial to give you 48v. You'd run your wires for the
> motor from here but what to do with the generator. If you have a 48v
> generator, you could run it to this bus bar to run the motor, but if the
> motor isn't drawing power, you'll end up charging your batteries - at a very
> high amperage, which will damage the batteries. Now you need some sort of
> 48v input smart battery charger (is there such a thing?) between the bus bar
> and the battery bank. Or you could use some sort of inverter to change from
> 48V DC to 110v AC, then into the AC battery charger (plenty available) and
> finally into the batteries. Or maybe we should use an AC generator to start
> with!
>
> If there is an electrical engineer out there who could give us the pros and
> cons of all the combinations or even suggest what would be the best layout,
> please pipe in.
>
> Because of the uneven battery bank charging issues (bad battery in the
> series), I'm currently thinking about using 4 x 12v/120A self regulating
> alternators mounted in a custom aluminum bracket, all belted to the shaft of
> an 8HP diesel. Each would be wired to 1 battery and a battery isolator,
> which is then wired in series to the other battery isolators and then to the
> bus bar. But I'm no expert.
>
> DaveH
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: electricboats@yahoogroups.com <mailto:electricboats%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:electricboats@yahoogroups.com <mailto:electricboats%40yahoogroups.com>
> ]
> On Behalf Of Chris Witzgall
> Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 12:40 PM
> To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com <mailto:electricboats%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] The missing link in "affordable" diesel
> electric
>
> What would be the advantage of doing this with a motor, vs an alternator?.
> There are 48v alternators available, that are purpose built for the job.
> Electrodyne makes a 60, 75 and 100a version. I got pricing on the 75 and 100
> amp models:
>
> GE75-48 $868.01
> GE100-48 $929.33 each
>
> Chris
>
> On 7/17/09 11:21 AM, "Colin Girvan" <colingirvan@yahoo.com
> <mailto:colingirvan%40yahoo.com> > wrote:
>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I'm also very keen on this possibility and put forward the same suggestion
>> > several weeks back. It seems the major problem with this set up is
> regulating
>> > the output to charge batteries.
>> >
>> > As far as bypassing the batteries to run directly off the output, I may be
>> > wrong but I thought you could do this through the batteries. In other
> words
>> > the motor takes 100 amps out of the batteries while the generator puts in
> a
>> > 100 amps. I would be interested in peoples comments on whether this is
> correct
>> > and if so would there be losses involved or are the batteries acting as a
> wire
>> > connecting the generator to the motor.
>> >
>> > Colin Girvan
>> >
>> > BC Canada
>> >
>> > --- On Fri, 7/17/09, Alycia & Kevin Miller-Lynch <ak@twcny.rr.com
>> <mailto:ak%40twcny.rr.com>
>> > <mailto:ak%40twcny.rr.com> > wrote:
>> >
>> > From: Alycia & Kevin Miller-Lynch <ak@twcny.rr.com
>> <mailto:ak%40twcny.rr.com>
> <mailto:ak%40twcny.rr.com>
>>> > >
>> > Subject: RE: [Electric Boats] The missing link in "affordable" diesel
> electric
>> > To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com <mailto:electricboats%40yahoogroups.com>
>> <mailto:electricboats%40yahoogroups.com>
>> > Received: Friday, July 17, 2009, 3:42 AM
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I'll be the first to admit I'm a hack--- no expert, but here's a thought.
>> >
>> > Instead of buying and off-the-shelf diesel generator, why not make one?
> Buy
>> >
>> > e-tek type motor with regen capability (thunderstruck? ) with belt or
> direct
>> >
>> > drive (get the correct speed) to something alike a carrol stream liquid
>> >
>> > cooled diesel (or even aircooled if you don't mind the noise and run some
>> >
>> > venting). This is in addition of course to your primary electric motor
> for
>> >
>> > propulsion. You could probably do it for about 2500. Still not cheap
>> >
>> > cheap, but less expensive then a commercial option.
>> >
>> > You use the regen to charge your bank as you draw on it. Possibly even
> hook
>> >
>> > up a bypass circuit and run the motor directly off the generator (just
> like
>> >
>> > the big cruise ships).
>> >
>> > The motor with regen would be much more efficient then an alternator
> (don't
>> >
>> > need to excite the coils) and probably doesn't cost a lot more then a high
>> >
>> > capacity alternator.
>> >
>> > Let the critique begin.
>> >
>> > Kevin
>> >
>> > From: electricboats@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:electricboats@ yahoogroups..
>> > com]
>> >
>> > On Behalf Of Mike
>> >
>> > Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 10:48 PM
>> >
>> > To: electricboats@ yahoogroups. com
>> >
>> > Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] The missing link in "affordable" diesel
>> >
>> > electric
>> >
>> > Chris:
>> >
>> > I certainly can understand the frustration of sailing backwards. For me
>> >
>> > going electric has made me plan my trips with tide and currents more
> because
>> >
>> > of the limits of electric storage capacity but, I did the same when I had
> a
>> >
>> > diesel engine too. I also anticipate there may come a time when I might
> want
>> >
>> > to anchor and wait for the breeze or current change if the battery bank is
>> >
>> > running down. Happily so far that has not been a choice I've had to make..
>> >
>> > Bucking currents is never any fun.
>> >
>> > The beauty of electric propulsion is the ability to incorporate new
>> >
>> > technologies into ones system whether it's a more lightweight generator or
>> >
>> > new battery technology according to one's needs. So far my needs are
> being
>> >
>> > met by the solar panel, wind generator and Honda 2000i. But, I look
> forward
>> >
>> > to reading about your choice in generators too.
>> >
>> > Mike
>> >
>> > http://biankablog. blogspot. com
>> >
>> > --- On Fri, 7/17/09, Chris Witzgall <chris@witzgall. org
>> >
>> > <mailto:chris% 40witzgall. org> > wrote:
>> >
>> > From: Chris Witzgall <chris@witzgall. org <mailto:chris% 40witzgall. org>
>> >
>> >
>> > Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] The missing link in "affordable" diesel
>> >
>> > electric
>> >
>> > To: electricboats@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:electricboa ts%40yahoogroups
> .com>
>> >
>> > Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 1:41 AM
>> >
>> > Mike;
>> >
>> > In most situations, you are correct. However, there are times when
> prolonged
>> >
>> > motoring in adverse conditions is just a part of cruising. There are also
>> >
>> > times when the wind is light, and currents mean that you are either going
>> >
>> > backwards, or motoring. It is these kinds of scenarios that I would like
> to
>> >
>> > have the option of motoring.
>> >
>> > Hopefully, this is not often. The gensets I have found are really more
> than
>> >
>> > I think I would want. Something that can safely generate 60a, or even
> less,
>> >
>> > may be ideal. I am not sure. But having the ability to extend the motoring
>> >
>> > time say by 50% with the help of a small single cyl diesel genset may be
> the
>> >
>> > ticket. If Lombardini/Kohler can make an air-cooled motor that is 70 lbs
> for
>> >
>> > 6.7hp, could they not create a 5hp water cooled one for not much more?
> Then
>> >
>> > add an Electrodyne 75a Alternator, and you have something. Or something
> like
>> >
>> > that.
>> >
>> > I would consider the air cooled generator, except I think they would be
> too
>> >
>> > damm loud.
>> >
>> > Chris
>> >
>> > On 7/16/09 9:31 PM, "Mike" <biankablog@ verizon. net> wrote:
>> >
>>>> >> >
>> >
>>>> >> >
>> >
>>>> >> >
>> >
>>>> >> >
>> >
>>>> >> > Chris:
>> >
>>>> >> >
>> >
>>>> >> > While I was thinking putting in a 48 volt diesel generator is always
an
>> >
>>>> >> > option. But, I think I've gotten too use to the smell of clean down
> below
>> >
>> > to
>> >
>>>> >> > go back to diesel. I'm not so sure that a diesel generator will be all
>> >
>> > that
>> >
>>>> >> > reliable in a storm anyway. There are plenty of stories of diesels
that
>> >
>> > have
>> >
>>>> >> > died in storm conditions as the crud in the tanks got stired up and
>> >
>> > clogged
>> >
>>>> >> > the filters. If you are in a storm there will be wind and a storm
sail
>> >
>> > may be
>> >
>>>> >> > a better choice than relying on an engine to slug it out with the
> ocean.
>> >
>>>> >> > Remember too in storm conditions your wind generator should be pegging
> the
>> >
>>>> >> > ammeter too charging your battery banks. Then there is a sea anchor
and
>> >
>>>> >> > drouges which may not give you any forward movement but, will allow
you
> to
>> >
>>>> >> > rest. Hopefully. <g> I'm not sure how having a diesel generator will
> help
>> >
>> > that
>> >
>>>> >> > much in storm conditions.
>> >
>>>> >> >
>> >
>>>> >> > Mike
>> >
>>>> >> > http://biankablog. blogspot. com
>> >
>>>> >> >
>> >
>>>> >> > --- On Wed, 7/15/09, Chris Witzgall <chris@witzgall. org
>> >
>>>> >> > <mailto:chris% 40witzgall. org> > wrote:
>> >
>>>> >> >
>> >
>>>> >> > From: Chris Witzgall <chris@witzgall. org <mailto:chris% 40witzgall.
> org>
>> >
>>>> >> >
>> >
>>>> >> > Subject: [Electric Boats] The missing link in "affordable" diesel
> electric
>> >
>>>> >> > To: "electricboats@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:electricboa
> ts%40yahoogroups
>> >
>> > .com> "
>> >
>>>> >> > <electricboats@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:electricboa ts%40yahoogroups
>> >
>> > .com> >
>> >
>>>> >> > Date: Wednesday, July 15, 2009, 3:37 PM
>> >
>>>> >> >
>> >
>>>> >> > We have a 32¹ Westerly Fulmar. It weighs perhaps 12,000 lbs, with a
26¹
>> >
>>>> >> > waterline, and is currently powered by a Volvo 18hp engine.
>> >
>>>> >> >
>> >
>>>> >> > It seems to be that both motor and battery technology has finally come
> to
>> >
>> > a
>> >
>>>> >> > place that can support owner installed electric boats that need to be
> able
>> >
>>>> >> > to have a longer range. The missing piece is a small, light diesel dc
>> >
>>>> >> > generator that can put out between 40-100a @ 48v. Something like this,
> but
>> >
>>>> >> > marinized:
>> >
>>>> >> >
>> >
>>>> >> > http://www.polarpow erinc.com/ products/ generators/ 1-3,5kw_Lambardi
>> >
>> > ni.htm
>> >
>>>> >> >
>> >
>>>> >> > Is anyone else thinking about this the same way as I am? Our future
> plans
>> >
>>>> >> > may include a few years of full -time cruising, so we won¹t be able to
>> >
>>>> >> > recharge at the dock, and extended motoring time for safely is a
>> >
>> > necessity.
>> >
>>>> >> >
>> >
>>>> >> > Put a 400ah 24v bank, or a 200ah 48v bank of LIFEPO4 batteries,
> weighing
>> >
>> > at
>> >
>>>> >> > ~100 lbs. Add a 12v converter, say 10 lbs. DC motor and assembly,
> 50-100
>> >
>>>> >> > lbs. DC Generator, 150lbs (made up number) Total system weight = <360
> lbs
>> >
>>>> >> >
>> >
>>>> >> > Remove: 305lbs engine and transmission. 160lbs of lead acid batteries.
>> >
>> > Extra
>> >
>>>> >> > diesel tankage already on boat (keep 20 gallon tank only) 50lbs. Total
>> >
>>>> >> > removal: 515lbs.
>> >
>>>> >> >
>> >
>>>> >> > The only component that is missing is that generator. Gas is not an
> option
>> >
>>>> >> > for safety reasons. While the little Hondas are great generators, I
> would
>> >
>>>> >> > not want to rely on keeping one running during a storm.
>> >
>>>> >> >
>> >
>>>> >> > Thoughts?
>> >
>>>> >> >
>> >
>>>> >> > Chris
>> >
>>>> >> >
>> >
>>>> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >
>>>> >> >
>> >
>>>> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >
>>>> >> >
>> >
>>>> >> >
>> >
>>>> >> >
>> >
>>>> >> >
>> >
>>>>>> >>> >>
>> >
>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >
>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >
>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > __________________________________________________________
>> > The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for
> Yahoo!
>> > Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/
>> >
>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> >>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.15/2239 - Release Date: 07/17/09
> 06:08:00
>
>
>
>
>>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electricboats/
<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional
<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electricboats/join
(Yahoo! ID required)
<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:electricboats-digest@yahoogroups.com
mailto:electricboats-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
electricboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
No comments:
Post a Comment