The alternator case serves as ground, so the housings must be isolated.
This arrangement would be dangerous and complex.
Batteries can be balanced using Zener diodes and 12v light bulbs, but it takes time.
Leese-Neville makes a nice 48v alternater, and coupled to a Lombardini diesel, would be safe and simple. Yanmar also makes a darling 5.5hp water cooled diesel.
Arby
On Jul 17, 2009, at 9:07 AM, "Dave Hackett" <dave.hackett@
Just like everyone else, I've been struggling with this question. I'd like
to have a setup where you can use the diesel to recharge the batteries
AND/OR generate enough juice to propel the boat.
So think of the wiring harness. Typically, you'd use a bus bar at the end
of 4 batteries in serial to give you 48v. You'd run your wires for the
motor from here but what to do with the generator. If you have a 48v
generator, you could run it to this bus bar to run the motor, but if the
motor isn't drawing power, you'll end up charging your batteries - at a very
high amperage, which will damage the batteries. Now you need some sort of
48v input smart battery charger (is there such a thing?) between the bus bar
and the battery bank. Or you could use some sort of inverter to change from
48V DC to 110v AC, then into the AC battery charger (plenty available) and
finally into the batteries. Or maybe we should use an AC generator to start
with!
If there is an electrical engineer out there who could give us the pros and
cons of all the combinations or even suggest what would be the best layout,
please pipe in.
Because of the uneven battery bank charging issues (bad battery in the
series), I'm currently thinking about using 4 x 12v/120A self regulating
alternators mounted in a custom aluminum bracket, all belted to the shaft of
an 8HP diesel. Each would be wired to 1 battery and a battery isolator,
which is then wired in series to the other battery isolators and then to the
bus bar. But I'm no expert.
DaveH
-----Original Message-----
From: electricboats@
On Behalf Of Chris Witzgall
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 12:40 PM
To: electricboats@
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] The missing link in "affordable" diesel
electric
What would be the advantage of doing this with a motor, vs an alternator?.
There are 48v alternators available, that are purpose built for the job.
Electrodyne makes a 60, 75 and 100a version. I got pricing on the 75 and 100
amp models:
GE75-48 $868.01
GE100-48 $929.33 each
Chris
On 7/17/09 11:21 AM, "Colin Girvan" <colingirvan@
>
>
>
>
> I'm also very keen on this possibility and put forward the same suggestion
> several weeks back. It seems the major problem with this set up is
regulating
> the output to charge batteries.
>
> As far as bypassing the batteries to run directly off the output, I may be
> wrong but I thought you could do this through the batteries. In other
words
> the motor takes 100 amps out of the batteries while the generator puts in
a
> 100 amps. I would be interested in peoples comments on whether this is
correct
> and if so would there be losses involved or are the batteries acting as a
wire
> connecting the generator to the motor.
>
> Colin Girvan
>
> BC Canada
>
> --- On Fri, 7/17/09, Alycia & Kevin Miller-Lynch <ak@twcny.rr.
> <mailto:ak%40twcny.
>
> From: Alycia & Kevin Miller-Lynch <ak@twcny.rr.
<mailto:ak%40twcny.
> >
> Subject: RE: [Electric Boats] The missing link in "affordable" diesel
electric
> To: electricboats@
> Received: Friday, July 17, 2009, 3:42 AM
>
>
>
> I'll be the first to admit I'm a hack--- no expert, but here's a thought.
>
> Instead of buying and off-the-shelf diesel generator, why not make one?
Buy
>
> e-tek type motor with regen capability (thunderstruck? ) with belt or
direct
>
> drive (get the correct speed) to something alike a carrol stream liquid
>
> cooled diesel (or even aircooled if you don't mind the noise and run some
>
> venting). This is in addition of course to your primary electric motor
for
>
> propulsion. You could probably do it for about 2500. Still not cheap
>
> cheap, but less expensive then a commercial option.
>
> You use the regen to charge your bank as you draw on it. Possibly even
hook
>
> up a bypass circuit and run the motor directly off the generator (just
like
>
> the big cruise ships).
>
> The motor with regen would be much more efficient then an alternator
(don't
>
> need to excite the coils) and probably doesn't cost a lot more then a high
>
> capacity alternator.
>
> Let the critique begin.
>
> Kevin
>
> From: electricboats@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:electricboa
> com]
>
> On Behalf Of Mike
>
> Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 10:48 PM
>
> To: electricboats@ yahoogroups. com
>
> Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] The missing link in "affordable" diesel
>
> electric
>
> Chris:
>
> I certainly can understand the frustration of sailing backwards. For me
>
> going electric has made me plan my trips with tide and currents more
because
>
> of the limits of electric storage capacity but, I did the same when I had
a
>
> diesel engine too. I also anticipate there may come a time when I might
want
>
> to anchor and wait for the breeze or current change if the battery bank is
>
> running down. Happily so far that has not been a choice I've had to make..
>
> Bucking currents is never any fun.
>
> The beauty of electric propulsion is the ability to incorporate new
>
> technologies into ones system whether it's a more lightweight generator or
>
> new battery technology according to one's needs. So far my needs are
being
>
> met by the solar panel, wind generator and Honda 2000i. But, I look
forward
>
> to reading about your choice in generators too.
>
> Mike
>
> http://biankablog. blogspot. com
>
> --- On Fri, 7/17/09, Chris Witzgall <chris@witzgall. org
>
> <mailto:chris% 40witzgall. org> > wrote:
>
> From: Chris Witzgall <chris@witzgall. org <mailto:chris% 40witzgall. org>
>
>
> Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] The missing link in "affordable" diesel
>
> electric
>
> To: electricboats@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:electricboa ts%40yahoogroups
.com>
>
> Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 1:41 AM
>
> Mike;
>
> In most situations, you are correct. However, there are times when
prolonged
>
> motoring in adverse conditions is just a part of cruising. There are also
>
> times when the wind is light, and currents mean that you are either going
>
> backwards, or motoring. It is these kinds of scenarios that I would like
to
>
> have the option of motoring.
>
> Hopefully, this is not often. The gensets I have found are really more
than
>
> I think I would want. Something that can safely generate 60a, or even
less,
>
> may be ideal. I am not sure. But having the ability to extend the motoring
>
> time say by 50% with the help of a small single cyl diesel genset may be
the
>
> ticket. If Lombardini/Kohler can make an air-cooled motor that is 70 lbs
for
>
> 6.7hp, could they not create a 5hp water cooled one for not much more?
Then
>
> add an Electrodyne 75a Alternator, and you have something. Or something
like
>
> that.
>
> I would consider the air cooled generator, except I think they would be
too
>
> damm loud.
>
> Chris
>
> On 7/16/09 9:31 PM, "Mike" <biankablog@ verizon. net> wrote:
>
>> >
>
>> >
>
>> >
>
>> >
>
>> > Chris:
>
>> >
>
>> > While I was thinking putting in a 48 volt diesel generator is always an
>
>> > option. But, I think I've gotten too use to the smell of clean down
below
>
> to
>
>> > go back to diesel. I'm not so sure that a diesel generator will be all
>
> that
>
>> > reliable in a storm anyway. There are plenty of stories of diesels that
>
> have
>
>> > died in storm conditions as the crud in the tanks got stired up and
>
> clogged
>
>> > the filters. If you are in a storm there will be wind and a storm sail
>
> may be
>
>> > a better choice than relying on an engine to slug it out with the
ocean.
>
>> > Remember too in storm conditions your wind generator should be pegging
the
>
>> > ammeter too charging your battery banks. Then there is a sea anchor and
>
>> > drouges which may not give you any forward movement but, will allow you
to
>
>> > rest. Hopefully. <g> I'm not sure how having a diesel generator will
help
>
> that
>
>> > much in storm conditions.
>
>> >
>
>> > Mike
>
>> > http://biankablog. blogspot. com
>
>> >
>
>> > --- On Wed, 7/15/09, Chris Witzgall <chris@witzgall. org
>
>> > <mailto:chris% 40witzgall. org> > wrote:
>
>> >
>
>> > From: Chris Witzgall <chris@witzgall. org <mailto:chris% 40witzgall.
org>
>
>> >
>
>> > Subject: [Electric Boats] The missing link in "affordable" diesel
electric
>
>> > To: "electricboats@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:electricboa
ts%40yahoogroups
>
> .com> "
>
>> > <electricboats@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:electricboa ts%40yahoogroups
>
> .com> >
>
>> > Date: Wednesday, July 15, 2009, 3:37 PM
>
>> >
>
>> > We have a 32¹ Westerly Fulmar. It weighs perhaps 12,000 lbs, with a 26¹
>
>> > waterline, and is currently powered by a Volvo 18hp engine.
>
>> >
>
>> > It seems to be that both motor and battery technology has finally come
to
>
> a
>
>> > place that can support owner installed electric boats that need to be
able
>
>> > to have a longer range. The missing piece is a small, light diesel dc
>
>> > generator that can put out between 40-100a @ 48v. Something like this,
but
>
>> > marinized:
>
>> >
>
>> > http://www.polarpow erinc.com/ products/ generators/ 1-3,5kw_Lambardi
>
> ni.htm
>
>> >
>
>> > Is anyone else thinking about this the same way as I am? Our future
plans
>
>> > may include a few years of full -time cruising, so we won¹t be able to
>
>> > recharge at the dock, and extended motoring time for safely is a
>
> necessity.
>
>> >
>
>> > Put a 400ah 24v bank, or a 200ah 48v bank of LIFEPO4 batteries,
weighing
>
> at
>
>> > ~100 lbs. Add a 12v converter, say 10 lbs. DC motor and assembly,
50-100
>
>> > lbs. DC Generator, 150lbs (made up number) Total system weight = <360
lbs
>
>> >
>
>> > Remove: 305lbs engine and transmission. 160lbs of lead acid batteries.
>
> Extra
>
>> > diesel tankage already on boat (keep 20 gallon tank only) 50lbs. Total
>
>> > removal: 515lbs.
>
>> >
>
>> > The only component that is missing is that generator. Gas is not an
option
>
>> > for safety reasons. While the little Hondas are great generators, I
would
>
>> > not want to rely on keeping one running during a storm.
>
>> >
>
>> > Thoughts?
>
>> >
>
>> > Chris
>
>> >
>
>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>> >
>
>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>> >
>
>> >
>
>> >
>
>> >
>
>>> >>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________
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