James,
I'm the guy with the not yet started catamaran project who wrote you a
month or so back about your motor and gearbox. For the homemade genset you
describe would you have to throttle the engine to match the load? I assume
you would also have to have a resistive load somewhere to take the excess
power in case you didn't? I like the idea of having the same motor on the
genset as the propulsion motor so you could carry one extra and have a spare
for both. Would you gear the motor you're using as an alternator so that it
makes 48 or so volts at low rpm and then 145 volts at max rpm? Finally, if
you have to throttle it manually would you do that by just zeroing out an
amp meter that goes to the resistive load or would the charge controller
take care of that somehow?
Please forgive my ignorance, I understand how a conventional
alternator with a field controller works but this permanent magnet stuff is
new to me. BTW, when I flew F-16s in the Air Force the last resort source
of power on the jet (out of 8 or 9, it quits flying without electricity to
run the flight control computer) was a permanent magnet generator. I guess
they wanted something in there that would work no matter what.
Also, are you still working on the 8 KW system? I look forward
to seeing what you come up with.
Thanks,
Jerry Barth
_____
From: electricboats@
On Behalf Of jameslambden
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 10:57 AM
To: electricboats@
Subject: [Electric Boats] Re: The missing link in "affordable" diesel
electric
You can build a genset by mounting any permanent magnet ac electric motor
(alternator) to any diesel motor, putting the three phases through a diode
bridge, then through a charge controller to the batteries. Belt driving the
alternator is a good idea so the harmonics of the engine do not affect the
alternator (electric motor) and vice versa.
The Outback Flex Max 80 charge controller will output 4.7 KW at 59 Volts.
The alternator could be set up at run at voltages up to 145 volts and the
Outback would step it down to the bulk voltage of a 48 volt battery bank.
Occasionally overstock supply companies sell diesel engines very
inexpensively. You can always marinize the unit yourself with not too much
trouble.
If someone is interested in having one built for them, feel free to contact.
James Lambden
Santa Barbara, CA
http://www.abovethe <http://www.abovethe
http://www.propulsi <http://www.propulsi
--- In electricboats@ <mailto:electricboa
yahoogroups.
>
> This works on the same principle as a computer UPS. In a UPS, the computer
> runs off the batteries at the same time as the charger charges the
> batteries.
>
> Larry
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: electricboats@ <mailto:electricboa
yahoogroups.
<mailto:electricboa
> On Behalf Of Colin Girvan
> Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 11:22 AM
> To: electricboats@ <mailto:electricboa
yahoogroups.
> Subject: RE: [Electric Boats] The missing link in "affordable" diesel
> electric
>
>
>
>
> I'm also very keen on this possibility and put forward the same suggestion
> several weeks back. It seems the major problem with this set up is
> regulating the output to charge batteries.
>
> As far as bypassing the batteries to run directly off the output, I may be
> wrong but I thought you could do this through the batteries. In other
words
> the motor takes 100 amps out of the batteries while the generator puts in
a
> 100 amps. I would be interested in peoples comments on whether this is
> correct and if so would there be losses involved or are the batteries
acting
> as a wire connecting the generator to the motor.
>
> Colin Girvan
>
> BC Canada
>
> --- On Fri, 7/17/09, Alycia & Kevin Miller-Lynch <ak@...
> <mailto:ak%40twcny.
>
> From: Alycia & Kevin Miller-Lynch <ak@... <mailto:ak%40twcny.
> com>
> Subject: RE: [Electric Boats] The missing link in "affordable" diesel
> electric
> To: electricboats@ <mailto:electricboa
yahoogroups.
> Received: Friday, July 17, 2009, 3:42 AM
>
>
>
> I'll be the first to admit I'm a hack--- no expert, but here's a thought.
>
> Instead of buying and off-the-shelf diesel generator, why not make one?
Buy
>
> e-tek type motor with regen capability (thunderstruck? ) with belt or
direct
>
> drive (get the correct speed) to something alike a carrol stream liquid
>
> cooled diesel (or even aircooled if you don't mind the noise and run some
>
> venting). This is in addition of course to your primary electric motor for
>
> propulsion. You could probably do it for about 2500. Still not cheap
>
> cheap, but less expensive then a commercial option.
>
> You use the regen to charge your bank as you draw on it. Possibly even
hook
>
> up a bypass circuit and run the motor directly off the generator (just
like
>
> the big cruise ships).
>
> The motor with regen would be much more efficient then an alternator
(don't
>
> need to excite the coils) and probably doesn't cost a lot more then a high
>
> capacity alternator.
>
> Let the critique begin.
>
> Kevin
>
> From: electricboats@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:electricboa
> com]
>
> On Behalf Of Mike
>
> Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 10:48 PM
>
> To: electricboats@ yahoogroups. com
>
> Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] The missing link in "affordable" diesel
>
> electric
>
> Chris:
>
> I certainly can understand the frustration of sailing backwards. For me
>
> going electric has made me plan my trips with tide and currents more
because
>
> of the limits of electric storage capacity but, I did the same when I had
a
>
> diesel engine too. I also anticipate there may come a time when I might
want
>
> to anchor and wait for the breeze or current change if the battery bank is
>
> running down. Happily so far that has not been a choice I've had to make..
>
> Bucking currents is never any fun.
>
> The beauty of electric propulsion is the ability to incorporate new
>
> technologies into ones system whether it's a more lightweight generator or
>
> new battery technology according to one's needs. So far my needs are being
>
> met by the solar panel, wind generator and Honda 2000i. But, I look
forward
>
> to reading about your choice in generators too.
>
> Mike
>
> http://biankablog. blogspot. com
>
> --- On Fri, 7/17/09, Chris Witzgall <chris@witzgall. org
>
> <mailto:chris% 40witzgall. org> > wrote:
>
> From: Chris Witzgall <chris@witzgall. org <mailto:chris% 40witzgall. org>
>
>
> Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] The missing link in "affordable" diesel
>
> electric
>
> To: electricboats@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:electricboa ts%40yahoogroups
> .com>
>
> Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 1:41 AM
>
> Mike;
>
> In most situations, you are correct. However, there are times when
prolonged
>
> motoring in adverse conditions is just a part of cruising. There are also
>
> times when the wind is light, and currents mean that you are either going
>
> backwards, or motoring. It is these kinds of scenarios that I would like
to
>
> have the option of motoring.
>
> Hopefully, this is not often. The gensets I have found are really more
than
>
> I think I would want. Something that can safely generate 60a, or even
less,
>
> may be ideal. I am not sure. But having the ability to extend the motoring
>
> time say by 50% with the help of a small single cyl diesel genset may be
the
>
> ticket. If Lombardini/Kohler can make an air-cooled motor that is 70 lbs
for
>
> 6.7hp, could they not create a 5hp water cooled one for not much more?
Then
>
> add an Electrodyne 75a Alternator, and you have something. Or something
like
>
> that.
>
> I would consider the air cooled generator, except I think they would be
too
>
> damm loud.
>
> Chris
>
> On 7/16/09 9:31 PM, "Mike" <biankablog@ verizon. net> wrote:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Chris:
>
> >
>
> > While I was thinking putting in a 48 volt diesel generator is always an
>
> > option. But, I think I've gotten too use to the smell of clean down
below
>
> to
>
> > go back to diesel. I'm not so sure that a diesel generator will be all
>
> that
>
> > reliable in a storm anyway. There are plenty of stories of diesels that
>
> have
>
> > died in storm conditions as the crud in the tanks got stired up and
>
> clogged
>
> > the filters. If you are in a storm there will be wind and a storm sail
>
> may be
>
> > a better choice than relying on an engine to slug it out with the ocean.
>
> > Remember too in storm conditions your wind generator should be pegging
the
>
> > ammeter too charging your battery banks. Then there is a sea anchor and
>
> > drouges which may not give you any forward movement but, will allow you
to
>
> > rest. Hopefully. <g> I'm not sure how having a diesel generator will
help
>
> that
>
> > much in storm conditions.
>
> >
>
> > Mike
>
> > http://biankablog. blogspot. com
>
> >
>
> > --- On Wed, 7/15/09, Chris Witzgall <chris@witzgall. org
>
> > <mailto:chris% 40witzgall. org> > wrote:
>
> >
>
> > From: Chris Witzgall <chris@witzgall. org <mailto:chris% 40witzgall.
org>
>
> >
>
> > Subject: [Electric Boats] The missing link in "affordable" diesel
electric
>
> > To: "electricboats@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:electricboa
ts%40yahoogroups
>
> .com> "
>
> > <electricboats@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:electricboa ts%40yahoogroups
>
> .com> >
>
> > Date: Wednesday, July 15, 2009, 3:37 PM
>
> >
>
> > We have a 32¹ Westerly Fulmar. It weighs perhaps 12,000 lbs, with a 26¹
>
> > waterline, and is currently powered by a Volvo 18hp engine.
>
> >
>
> > It seems to be that both motor and battery technology has finally come
to
>
> a
>
> > place that can support owner installed electric boats that need to be
able
>
> > to have a longer range. The missing piece is a small, light diesel dc
>
> > generator that can put out between 40-100a @ 48v. Something like this,
but
>
> > marinized:
>
> >
>
> > http://www.polarpow erinc.com/ products/ generators/ 1-3,5kw_Lambardi
>
> ni.htm
>
> >
>
> > Is anyone else thinking about this the same way as I am? Our future
plans
>
> > may include a few years of full -time cruising, so we won¹t be able to
>
> > recharge at the dock, and extended motoring time for safely is a
>
> necessity.
>
> >
>
> > Put a 400ah 24v bank, or a 200ah 48v bank of LIFEPO4 batteries, weighing
>
> at
>
> > ~100 lbs. Add a 12v converter, say 10 lbs. DC motor and assembly, 50-100
>
> > lbs. DC Generator, 150lbs (made up number) Total system weight = <360
lbs
>
> >
>
> > Remove: 305lbs engine and transmission. 160lbs of lead acid batteries.
>
> Extra
>
> > diesel tankage already on boat (keep 20 gallon tank only) 50lbs. Total
>
> > removal: 515lbs.
>
> >
>
> > The only component that is missing is that generator. Gas is not an
option
>
> > for safety reasons. While the little Hondas are great generators, I
would
>
> > not want to rely on keeping one running during a storm.
>
> >
>
> > Thoughts?
>
> >
>
> > Chris
>
> >
>
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> >
>
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________
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