Saturday, March 31, 2018

[Electric Boats] Battery monitors - 36v

 


I've just killed my 2nd 'expert Pro' battery monitor
(designed/manufacture by the Dutch company TBS, but OEMed and sold under
a number of brands). The device works well, but is not weatherproof, and
despite my efforts to protect the 2nd Expert Pro, it too has failed and
it looks like it's weather exposure. It's no use to me not at the
(exposed) helm, so fitting a battery monitor else where that is not
exposed is pointless.

Any one have any recommendations for a battery monitor that can take
being exposed to sunlight and getting wet ?

This Expert Pro HV may only need a replacement LCD, but I'd have to
convince TBS to sell me the part and it's apparently some what fiddly to
replace. And how long would it last under the same conditions ?

__._,_.___

Posted by: Matthew Geier <matthew@acfr.usyd.edu.au>
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (1)

Have you tried the highest rated email app?
With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage.


.

__,_._,___

Thursday, March 29, 2018

Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Quite the potential project.. but is it feasible?

 

A barge in England does move very slowly 90% of the time. They also have lots of room for solar. There are several u tubers chronicling their journey down this road and they seem to be doing well. There is even a start up advertising that they are building new boats trying to make a go of it.

Nick



Sent from my Bell Samsung device over Canada's largest network.


-------- Original message --------
From: "James Lambden james@electroprop.com [electricboats]" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 2018-03-29 11:13 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Quite the potential project.. but is it feasible?

 

Electric propulsion has many advantages for sailboats.    Firstly, the electric motor is the auxiliary.    It is meant to get the boat in and out of the harbor.   As a motor sailor, an electric sailboat has better range than a diesel when equipped with an appropriate battery pack.    There's hundreds of other reasons why electric propulsion makes more sense on a small sailboat than a diesel does.     

But as the primary for a motor boat, it doesn't make so much sense.   Done properly with all the safety equipment, a hybrid is much more expensive than a traditional diesel engine.      This is because you now have 4 systems replacing one system.     The diesel engine (one system) is replaced by a diesel engine, a generator head, a battery pack and a propulsion motor.      

In a motor boat setup where high continuous power is required, it doesn't make any sense.    Under battery power, the batteries would last 20 minutes to an hour at most and the generators would have to run all the time.

There is no advantage to electric unless the motor boat is running at very low speeds most of the time.

A  properly setup diesel will be more efficient than a hybrid.    This is because mechanical energy goes straight to the propeller.    ( in a hybrid, mechanical energy is transferred to electric then back again to mechanical and those losses can be as much as 40% )  

A diesel will likely be more reliable too, as there is only one system and not 4 systems.

Diesels can benefit from higher gear ratios and higher propeller pitch as well.     Diesels have not been optimized and this is where you would be best to focus your energies.   Propeller placement remains a mystery to most designers when really it is very simple….either give the propeller adequate hull clearance or put a Kurt Nozzle around it for a 25% increase in propulsion efficiency.

Motor boats could benefit from having a large primary diesel for all the high output power, and a smaller electric for maneuvering and slow speed operation  - basically a parallel hybrid.     

Motor boats are just that…..MOTOR BOATS….   and require a motor.

Going down this road and finding out that electric propulsion does not work is both very expensive for the experimenter, but also hard on our fledgling electric propulsion industry, as any failure will undoubtedly draw more press than any success.   

I would love to see every boat convert to electric but only if it is practical and proper for the application.     In this case, a barge, I don't think this is one of those applications.     







James Lambden
The Electric Propeller Company
625C East Haley Street,
Santa Barbara, CA
93103

805 455 8444

james@electroprop.com

www.electroprop.com

On Mar 24, 2018, at 4:46 PM, Rob rob@sail4life.net [electricboats] wrote:

 

THanks!


I like that. 

-Rob



__._,_.___

Posted by: 63urban <63urban@gmail.com>
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (9)

Have you tried the highest rated email app?
With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage.


.

__,_._,___

Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Quite the potential project.. but is it feasible?

 

Good points, all.


This application would be 99% low speed, low power. 

How much power is truly required most of the time ?  See attached historical picture ;-)

-Rob

On Mar 29, 2018, at 8:13 AM, James Lambden james@electroprop.com [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


Electric propulsion has many advantages for sailboats.    Firstly, the electric motor is the auxiliary.    It is meant to get the boat in and out of the harbor.   As a motor sailor, an electric sailboat has better range than a diesel when equipped with an appropriate battery pack.    There's hundreds of other reasons why electric propulsion makes more sense on a small sailboat than a diesel does.     

But as the primary for a motor boat, it doesn't make so much sense.   Done properly with all the safety equipment, a hybrid is much more expensive than a traditional diesel engine.      This is because you now have 4 systems replacing one system.     The diesel engine (one system) is replaced by a diesel engine, a generator head, a battery pack and a propulsion motor.      

In a motor boat setup where high continuous power is required, it doesn't make any sense.    Under battery power, the batteries would last 20 minutes to an hour at most and the generators would have to run all the time.

There is no advantage to electric unless the motor boat is running at very low speeds most of the time.

A  properly setup diesel will be more efficient than a hybrid.    This is because mechanical energy goes straight to the propeller.    ( in a hybrid, mechanical energy is transferred to electric then back again to mechanical and those losses can be as much as 40% )  

A diesel will likely be more reliable too, as there is only one system and not 4 systems.

Diesels can benefit from higher gear ratios and higher propeller pitch as well.     Diesels have not been optimized and this is where you would be best to focus your energies.   Propeller placement remains a mystery to most designers when really it is very simple….either give the propeller adequate hull clearance or put a Kurt Nozzle around it for a 25% increase in propulsion efficiency.

Motor boats could benefit from having a large primary diesel for all the high output power, and a smaller electric for maneuvering and slow speed operation  - basically a parallel hybrid.     

Motor boats are just that…..MOTOR BOATS….   and require a motor.

Going down this road and finding out that electric propulsion does not work is both very expensive for the experimenter, but also hard on our fledgling electric propulsion industry, as any failure will undoubtedly draw more press than any success.   

I would love to see every boat convert to electric but only if it is practical and proper for the application.     In this case, a barge, I don't think this is one of those applications.     







James Lambden
The Electric Propeller Company
625C East Haley Street,
Santa Barbara, CA
93103

805 455 8444

james@electroprop.com

www.electroprop.com

On Mar 24, 2018, at 4:46 PM, Rob rob@sail4life.net [electricboats] wrote:

 

THanks!


I like that. 

-Rob





__._,_.___

Posted by: Rob <rob@sail4life.net>
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (11)

Have you tried the highest rated email app?
With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage.


.

__,_._,___

Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Quite the potential project.. but is it feasible?

 

It really depends on other factors. If you have solar then the generator becomes backup. If you are not going very far electric will be able to work. Go slow and not far electric is far more effective.


On Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 9:38 AM, James Lambden james@electroprop.com [electricboats]
<electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Electric propulsion has many advantages for sailboats.    Firstly, the electric motor is the auxiliary.    It is meant to get the boat in and out of the harbor.   As a motor sailor, an electric sailboat has better range than a diesel when equipped with an appropriate battery pack.    There's hundreds of other reasons why electric propulsion makes more sense on a small sailboat than a diesel does.     

But as the primary for a motor boat, it doesn't make so much sense.   Done properly with all the safety equipment, a hybrid is much more expensive than a traditional diesel engine.      This is because you now have 4 systems replacing one system.     The diesel engine (one system) is replaced by a diesel engine, a generator head, a battery pack and a propulsion motor.      

In a motor boat setup where high continuous power is required, it doesn't make any sense.    Under battery power, the batteries would last 20 minutes to an hour at most and the generators would have to run all the time.

There is no advantage to electric unless the motor boat is running at very low speeds most of the time.

A  properly setup diesel will be more efficient than a hybrid.    This is because mechanical energy goes straight to the propeller.    ( in a hybrid, mechanical energy is transferred to electric then back again to mechanical and those losses can be as much as 40% )  

A diesel will likely be more reliable too, as there is only one system and not 4 systems.

Diesels can benefit from higher gear ratios and higher propeller pitch as well.     Diesels have not been optimized and this is where you would be best to focus your energies.   Propeller placement remains a mystery to most designers when really it is very simple….either give the propeller adequate hull clearance or put a Kurt Nozzle around it for a 25% increase in propulsion efficiency.

Motor boats could benefit from having a large primary diesel for all the high output power, and a smaller electric for maneuvering and slow speed operation  - basically a parallel hybrid.     

Motor boats are just that…..MOTOR BOATS….   and require a motor.

Going down this road and finding out that electric propulsion does not work is both very expensive for the experimenter, but also hard on our fledgling electric propulsion industry, as any failure will undoubtedly draw more press than any success.   

I would love to see every boat convert to electric but only if it is practical and proper for the application.     In this case, a barge, I don't think this is one of those applications.     







James Lambden
The Electric Propeller Company
625C East Haley Street,
Santa Barbara, CA
93103

805 455 8444

james@electroprop.com

www.electroprop.com

On Mar 24, 2018, at 4:46 PM, Rob rob@sail4life.net [electricboats] wrote:

 

THanks!


I like that. 

-Rob



__._,_.___

Posted by: Daniel Michaels <nov32394@yahoo.com>
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (11)

Have you tried the highest rated email app?
With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage.


.

__,_._,___

Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Quite the potential project.. but is it feasible?

 

Electric propulsion has many advantages for sailboats.    Firstly, the electric motor is the auxiliary.    It is meant to get the boat in and out of the harbor.   As a motor sailor, an electric sailboat has better range than a diesel when equipped with an appropriate battery pack.    There's hundreds of other reasons why electric propulsion makes more sense on a small sailboat than a diesel does.     

But as the primary for a motor boat, it doesn't make so much sense.   Done properly with all the safety equipment, a hybrid is much more expensive than a traditional diesel engine.      This is because you now have 4 systems replacing one system.     The diesel engine (one system) is replaced by a diesel engine, a generator head, a battery pack and a propulsion motor.      

In a motor boat setup where high continuous power is required, it doesn't make any sense.    Under battery power, the batteries would last 20 minutes to an hour at most and the generators would have to run all the time.

There is no advantage to electric unless the motor boat is running at very low speeds most of the time.

A  properly setup diesel will be more efficient than a hybrid.    This is because mechanical energy goes straight to the propeller.    ( in a hybrid, mechanical energy is transferred to electric then back again to mechanical and those losses can be as much as 40% )  

A diesel will likely be more reliable too, as there is only one system and not 4 systems.

Diesels can benefit from higher gear ratios and higher propeller pitch as well.     Diesels have not been optimized and this is where you would be best to focus your energies.   Propeller placement remains a mystery to most designers when really it is very simple….either give the propeller adequate hull clearance or put a Kurt Nozzle around it for a 25% increase in propulsion efficiency.

Motor boats could benefit from having a large primary diesel for all the high output power, and a smaller electric for maneuvering and slow speed operation  - basically a parallel hybrid.     

Motor boats are just that…..MOTOR BOATS….   and require a motor.

Going down this road and finding out that electric propulsion does not work is both very expensive for the experimenter, but also hard on our fledgling electric propulsion industry, as any failure will undoubtedly draw more press than any success.   

I would love to see every boat convert to electric but only if it is practical and proper for the application.     In this case, a barge, I don't think this is one of those applications.     







James Lambden
The Electric Propeller Company
625C East Haley Street,
Santa Barbara, CA
93103

805 455 8444

james@electroprop.com

www.electroprop.com

On Mar 24, 2018, at 4:46 PM, Rob rob@sail4life.net [electricboats] wrote:

 

THanks!


I like that. 

-Rob



__._,_.___

Posted by: James Lambden <james@electroprop.com>
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (8)

Have you tried the highest rated email app?
With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage.


.

__,_._,___

Sunday, March 25, 2018

[Electric Boats] Re: Running trolling motor at half voltage ? Thrust and power consumption.

 

I agree with king. Get a cheap PWM controller. If you get a Chinese one, get one rated for 100A for a few bucks more. I've had problems with 40A ones overheating when drawing 30A continuous. The 100A model is just warming up with the same load.

__._,_.___

Posted by: cpcanoesailor@yahoo.ca
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (4)

Have you tried the highest rated email app?
With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage.


.

__,_._,___

[Electric Boats] Re: Running trolling motor at half voltage ? Thrust and power consumption.

 

Hello FishCanoe,

     Yes, the short answer is that Ohm's law gets you fairly close on thrust to start - just as you figured. But there's a catch.... an electric motor can be thought of as a purely resistive load UNTIL IT STARTS TO ROTATE. When it is rotating, the motor simultaneously becomes a generator creating a "back emf" that counters the applied voltage. Back EMF is linear with velocity. So the faster the motor rotates, the more back emf is generated, and your usable voltage is reduced. 
     After sailing a big tri for years, I sold it and went to a lightweight kevlar canoe with outriggers. For lazy paddling it is powered by an ultralight 1 hp Torqeedo motor which does move it right along. A spare battery provides enough power for an all afternoon cruise. Variable speed, too. I'm not advertising for Torqeedo, but they do make a nice product. There may be others, but I'm not aware of them. Torqeedo also makes a 1.5 and a 3 hp. electric. Nice tools; you might give one a try. 
 rScotty
     

__._,_.___

Posted by: roger@chucklebuckles.com
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (3)

Have you tried the highest rated email app?
With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage.


.

__,_._,___

Saturday, March 24, 2018

Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Quite the potential project.. but is it feasible?

 

THanks!


I like that. 

-Rob



On Mar 24, 2018, at 3:27 PM, mike@electricyachtssocal.com [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Barges do not move fast.  The idea is to move at a slow speed and the original 115hp diesel is likely adequate for which job it was designed.  I would be more concerned about steerage than power as a single screw would be limited. 

With the very limited information, I would suggest a dual motor capacity of 2 X 40kW or 2 X 60kW motors for the barge.  If you would like to see what they might look like (they are also designed to be mounted in series):
https://electricyachtpacific.com/shop?olsPage=products%2Fquiettorque-600lc-96v-liquid-cooled-dual-powerhead-motor-system&page=2

if you do two of these types, you might consider using a saildrive option so that you would have reasonable steerage control:
https://electricyachtpacific.com/shop?olsPage=products%2Fquiettorque-30-dot-0sd-72v-air-cooled-dual-powerhead-motor-system&page=1
(note that this unit is available at 96v and 60kW)

Do not know your usage but the idea of solar is always good.  The use of a couple of genset with about a total of 50kW is likely necessary

Mike
Electric Yacht Pacific (This is the new website and name for my company)


__._,_.___

Posted by: Rob <rob@sail4life.net>
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (7)

Have you tried the highest rated email app?
With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage.


.

__,_._,___

[Electric Boats] Re: Quite the potential project.. but is it feasible?

 

Barges do not move fast.  The idea is to move at a slow speed and the original 115hp diesel is likely adequate for which job it was designed.  I would be more concerned about steerage than power as a single screw would be limited.

With the very limited information, I would suggest a dual motor capacity of 2 X 40kW or 2 X 60kW motors for the barge.  If you would like to see what they might look like (they are also designed to be mounted in series):
https://electricyachtpacific.com/shop?olsPage=products%2Fquiettorque-600lc-96v-liquid-cooled-dual-powerhead-motor-system&page=2

if you do two of these types, you might consider using a saildrive option so that you would have reasonable steerage control:
https://electricyachtpacific.com/shop?olsPage=products%2Fquiettorque-30-dot-0sd-72v-air-cooled-dual-powerhead-motor-system&page=1
(note that this unit is available at 96v and 60kW)

Do not know your usage but the idea of solar is always good.  The use of a couple of genset with about a total of 50kW is likely necessary

Mike
Electric Yacht Pacific (This is the new website and name for my company)

__._,_.___

Posted by: mike@electricyachtssocal.com
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (6)

Have you tried the highest rated email app?
With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage.


.

__,_._,___

Re: [Electric Boats] Quite the potential project.. but is it feasible?

 

Good point.


Certainly, entering locks or docking in dodgy situations might be panic mode and in a couple minutes, you're sorted out or totally screwed ;-) , but based on the King's response, it makes sense to start with the assumed max required HP motor..  I would expect a bow thruster, and would like a stern thruster, but not sure if that fits in the budget.

I can forsee a situation where I might be near max output for a few hours, trying to make headway on a river or crossing one, but this would be quite rare.. but still needs to be planned for.

As to the king's comment on spendy... yeah, I fully expect that. This is currently a feasibility study, then I'd like to see what I can do for developing a budget, then a vessel needing re-powering must be at about that discount from "running" condition…

Thanks
-Rob


On Mar 24, 2018, at 9:42 AM, Daniel Michaels nov32394@yahoo.com [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Define panic mode. Most electric motors can handle panic mode for 2 to 5 minutes. Also think of alternatives to get out of the way or panic. Big anchors... bow thrusters...


On Sat, Mar 24, 2018 at 10:30 AM, Rob rob@sail4life.net [electricboats]
<electricboats@yahoogroups..com> wrote:
 

I've learned a lot by lurking, but I'm contemplating a project that is MUCH larger than anything I've seen addressed here, so I thought I'd ask for advice…

Thanks in advance !

Project: 100' and 100 +/- ton canal barge repowering

Current power (broken) diesel engine from 1957, originally rated 116 hp

I'd like to yank that beast and repower with an electric drive. 

Velocity requirements are: normally 3-5 knots. Panic mode 10-12 knots.

Assume the end product looks like a battery bank, 1-2kw solar, an autostart genset (possibly a larger and smaller unit?). Autostart based on demand and/or battery voltage… but that's a pretty broad assumption and I'm certainly open to options...

Generally, plan to move <20 miles per day, or maybe as far as the sun will take us. Also, typically don't have to deal with any current (but occasionally, thus panic mode above)

I thought I'd ask about feasibility before I even looked at the costing ;-)

Thoughts and/or suggestions?

Thanks!
-Rob



__._,_.___

Posted by: Rob <rob@sail4life.net>
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (4)

Have you tried the highest rated email app?
With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage.


.

__,_._,___