Wednesday, February 20, 2013

Re: [Electric Boats] Digest Number 3352

 

Sounds like they might have been exaggerating just a little but maybe they have an uber efficient system. Perhaps at a certain time of day for a little while but a big problem is going to be partial shading. Just one little patch of shade on your panel and it pretty much knocks the whole thing out. This is problematic for sailing rigs with solar.
 
Also, as soon as the sun is coming in at anything less than a normal, (perpendicular), angle, output from the solar panel drops significantly.
 
 
 
 

From: don cavers <doncavers@yahoo.ca>
To: No Reply <notify-dg-electricboats@yahoogroups.com>; "electricboats@yahoogroups.com" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 3:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Digest Number 3352



I was just at the Vancouver Boat Show and they had a production 40' "eco" cruiser. It had 1400 watts of panels on the cabin top and claimed 4 knots without drawing down the batteries.
Don

From: "electricboats@yahoogroups.com" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 6:28:18 AM
Subject: [Electric Boats] Digest Number 3352

12 New Messages

Digest #3352
1a
Re: Fully electric, turn key boat - available yet? by "Mike Gunning" mikegunning@ymail.com
3a
Measuring boat water speed for low speed & cost by "Craig Carmichael" craigcarmichaelis
3b
Re: Measuring boat water speed for low speed & cost by "Robert Lemke" robert-lemke@att.net
3c
3e
4a
Elecric Caik Motor - Honda outboard conversion - Boat test by "Craig Carmichael" craigcarmichaelis
5
6
Keith Jacko by "Keith Jacko" nrixez

Messages

Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:51 am (PST) . Posted by:

"Mike Gunning" mikegunning@ymail.com

Liz,
Thanks for the question. I have heard this question a number of times since starting my business. My advice would be to first get to understand boating and find out if it really is what you want to do. Join a sailing or boating club and get experience so that you learn whether you enjoy either sailing or power boating. Each type of boat has their advantages and negatives and you need to understand what will work for you. Also, you need to be able to fix whatever breaks on a boat and that means experience.

Sailboats are a lot easier to power with electric (they are primarily powered by sails). Displacement boats are really the only boats appropriate for electrical propulsion at this time. Read this as cruising. As far as today's practical application I would look at catamarans as the best "solar boats" as they have low drag and lots of space for panels.

The entire Hunter line of sailboats are available with the Elco electric option. That will normally include a diesel generator. I have spoken with many boat manufacturers and I will tell you that if you want an electric boat, they will build it. This is by definition an expensive new boat proposition. There are few new boats being built and many boat manufactures stopping production all together.

Re-powering an older well built boat is a good value if you are wise in selecting the boat and get a good value. The reward is that you get more boat for your money. There are good boat yards through out the country that will work with you. You can often hire a good boat wright to do an installation.

Mike Electric Yachts of Southern California

--- In mailto:electricboats%40yahoogroups.com, "LizN" wrote:
>
> Hi, all - first post but I have been lurking for years. And, after reading all your posts, I have realized that I don't have anywhere' s near the knowledge necessary to convert a boat. I don't even know how to sail. I have crewed on power boats though, so I know a little about them. My question is, is there such a thing as a fully electric, or a diesel hybrid that one can buy, all ready to go? I drooled over this boat for quite a while - http://dsehybrid.com/ - but it looks like it is no longer offered, so either the market, or existing technology, or something wasn't ready yet. Is an electric power boat, with solar or shore power to recharge the batteries possible today? That one could spend some weeks on putting up and down the ICW, maybe even heading around the Caribbean. Retirement is a few years off yet, but that's my dream. I wouldn't need much power, although I would need enough to get out of the way, or get somewhere relatively safe in case of storms.
>
> Any thoughts and comments are appreciated - your collective knowledge is incredible, I salute you!
>
> Liz
>

Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:37 pm (PST) . Posted by:

"LizN" momliz321

You have given me a lot to think about and research - thanks so much! The Blue PLanet looks particularly promising. But, so far it seems like both power generation and storage technology isn't up to a boat that can power through a storm, or go long distances. I bet that I am not the only person interested in green motor boating so I'm assuming that we will see more and more boats coming on the market, as long as solar panel technology development continues.

Thanks again!

--- In mailto:electricboats%40yahoogroups.com, "LizN" wrote:
>
> Hi, all - first post but I have been lurking for years. And, after reading all your posts, I have realized that I don't have anywhere' s near the knowledge necessary to convert a boat. I don't even know how to sail. I have crewed on power boats though, so I know a little about them. My question is, is there such a thing as a fully electric, or a diesel hybrid that one can buy, all ready to go? I drooled over this boat for quite a while - http://dsehybrid.com/ - but it looks like it is no longer offered, so either the market, or existing technology, or something wasn't ready yet. Is an electric power boat, with solar or shore power to recharge the batteries possible today? That one could spend some weeks on putting up and down the ICW, maybe even heading around the Caribbean. Retirement is a few years off yet, but that's my dream. I wouldn't need much power, although I would need enough to get out of the way, or get somewhere relatively safe in case of storms.
>
> Any thoughts and comments are appreciated - your collective knowledge is incredible, I salute you!
>
> Liz
>

Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:02 am (PST) . Posted by:

"Tom" boat_works

Here's a brief video at Deep Blue at the Miami show:
http://www.tradeonlytoday.com/home/523921-miami-video-chris-landry-reporters-notebook

Starts at about 0:35 into video.

-Tom

--- In mailto:electricboats%40yahoogroups.com, "ruckmarine2&q uot; wrote:
>
> Mike, quick comment -- Torqeedo is currently targeting Deep Blue at high-use commercial operators with well-defined usage scenarios and well-characterized annual fuel and maintenance costs. In those cases operators can easily calculate the payback of the system, as it reduces their annual operating costs. Dive and fishing operations in sensitive areas, workboats and tenders in areas or applications where fuel is limited, expensive, and difficult to handle, stuff like that.
>
> At this time, OEMs like Zodiac are designing it into specific models, and you'll see more builders integrate it as an option. Like most developments of this type, in time it will reach the average user. It's great for electric boating in the big picture.
>
> Scott Ruck
> Ruckmarine
> www.ruckmarine. com
>
> --- In mailto:electricboats%40yahoogroups.com, "Mike Gunning" wrote:
> >
> > Todd,
> > Could you verify for me the limited distribution of the Deep Blue is limited to two companies. I have been told that only Zodiac Milpro will have the system in the US. I have been thinking of about the system and can only see it in a very small specialized application or integrated into a serial hybrid application.
> > Mike Electric Yachts of Southern California
> >
> > --- In mailto:electricboats%40yahoogroups.com, "epowermarine& quot; wrote:
> > >
> > > Anyone who can get to the Miami Boat Show next week (starts Feb 14th) will be able to see/touch the Deep Blue 60kw electric outboard both at the Convention Center and rigged on 2 boats in the water at Sea Isle Marina.
> > >
> > > For specific questions on the product beyond what can be answered on the Torqeedo website please email me directly.
> > > Best,
> > > Capt. Todd Sims
> > > www.epowermarine. com
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:electricboats%40yahoogroups.com, "redfoxx11&quo t; wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Aloha,
> > > >
> > > > Torqeedo now has a 80 hp equivalent outboard. It is called the deep blue and you can see it on their website.
> > > >
> > > > We are looking to buy one for our custom 23' pacific power dory.
> > > >
> > > > They run around 50K for a 2 battery complete setup. An additional battery is around 15K.
> > > >
> > > > The batteries are massive and cannot be built to any custom dimensions but have 9 year warranty.
> > > >
> > > > We are in discussion with Chris Carroll from Torqeedo on more performance data.
> > > >
> > > > You can check out our project on our web www.JewelsOfAoha. com
> > > >
> > > > or Facebook page www.facebook. com/eBoatHawaii
> > > >
> > > > We have tons of pictures and video of us building the boat and also how we intend to pay for the new motor.
> > > >
> > > > If anyone has any info on the Deep Blue I would love to hear it.
> > > >
> > > > I will also post the info Torqeedo sent me.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:16 pm (PST) . Posted by:

"Craig Carmichael" craigcarmichaelis

In my e-outboard tests I couldn't measure the speed of the boat. I
bought a pitot tube, but the speedometer I found for it goes from
0-60 MPH and the first marking is at 10 MPH. The next one is at 15.
(From 40 to 60 each MPH is widely spaced - exactly the opposite of
what's needed.)

Blowing into the pitot tube, it takes all the pressure I can make to
move the needle just a little.

There must be some more sensitive transducer that can be used with a
pitot tube? Or is there some other way to measure speed that doesn't
cost a lot?

Cheers,
Craig

=====

Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:26 pm (PST) . Posted by:

"Robert Lemke" robert-lemke@att.net

Handheld GPS.

--- On Tue, 2/19/13, Craig Carmichael mailto:craig%40saers.com> wrote:

From: Craig Carmichael mailto:craig%40saers.com>
Subject: [Electric Boats] Measuring boat water speed for low speed & cost
To: mailto:electricboats%40yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, February 19, 2013, 12:16 PM

In my e-outboard tests I couldn't measure the speed of the boat. I
bought a pitot tube, but the speedometer I found for it goes from
0-60 MPH and the first marking is at 10 MPH. The next one is at 15.
(From 40 to 60 each MPH is widely spaced - exactly the opposite of
what's needed.)

Blowing into the pitot tube, it takes all the pressure I can make to
move the needle just a little.

There must be some more sensitive transducer that can be used with a
pitot tube? Or is there some other way to measure speed that doesn't
cost a lot?

Cheers,
Craig

=====

------------ --------- --------- ------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:32 pm (PST) . Posted by:

"Kerry Thomas" kerryjthomas

Hi

There was a home made pitot in wooden boat magazine a while ago.

Basically a plastic fish tank tube with plastic straw ends in the water.
One end cut at a diagonal to face the water flow. The other straight.
The "display" consists of an inverted loop, in the tubing, containing
coloured water. Once it is calibrated at two speeds you can make your own
numeric scale.

Index and back issues on their web site.

Regards

Captain Kerry Thomas
mailto:kerryjthomas%40gmail.com

-----Original Message-----
From: mailto:electricboats%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:electricboats%40yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Craig Carmichael
Sent: Wednesday, 20 February 2013 9:17 a.m.
To: mailto:electricboats%40yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Electric Boats] Measuring boat water speed for low speed & cost

In my e-outboard tests I couldn't measure the speed of the boat. I bought a
pitot tube, but the speedometer I found for it goes from
0-60 MPH and the first marking is at 10 MPH. The next one is at 15.
(From 40 to 60 each MPH is widely spaced - exactly the opposite of what's
needed.)

Blowing into the pitot tube, it takes all the pressure I can make to move
the needle just a little.

There must be some more sensitive transducer that can be used with a pitot
tube? Or is there some other way to measure speed that doesn't cost a lot?

Cheers,
Craig

=====

------------ --------- --------- ------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:23 pm (PST) . Posted by:

"oak" oak_box

Agreed.  You can probably get a cheap handheld GPS for around $100 - cheaper when they're discontinuing models.
For my power boat, I took the car gps and used that to check boat speed.
For slow speeds, it's probably better to use a handheld gps that's designed for hiking.

Be aware that the GPS will read total speed "over ground" .   NOT your speed through the water.   That means you have to compensate for current and wind.
Generally speaking - this means running at the same power level over several different directions, and averaging the speed that you record.

____________ _________ _________ __
From: Robert Lemke mailto:robert-lemke%40att.net>
To: mailto:electricboats%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 2:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Measuring boat water speed for low speed & cost


 
Handheld GPS.

--- On Tue, 2/19/13, Craig Carmichael mailto:craig%40saers.com> wrote:

>From: Craig Carmichael mailto:craig%40saers.com>
>Subject: [Electric Boats] Measuring boat water speed for low speed & cost
>To: mailto:electricboats%40yahoogroups.com
>Date: Tuesday, February 19, 2013, 12:16 PM
>
>
>In my e-outboard tests I couldn't measure the speed of the boat. I
>bought a pitot tube, but the speedometer I found for it goes from
>0-60 MPH and the first marking is at 10 MPH. The next one is at 15.
>(From 40 to 60 each MPH is widely spaced - exactly the opposite of
>what' s needed.)
>
>Blowing into the pitot tube, it takes all the pressure I can make to
>move the needle just a little.
>
>There
must be some more sensitive transducer that can be used with a
>pitot tube? Or is there some other way to measure speed that doesn't
>cost a lot?
>
>Cheers,
>Craig
>
>=====
>
>
>-------- --------- --------- --------- -
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:38 pm (PST) . Posted by:

"Ned Farinholt" nedfarinholt

Craig,
Many of us use a gps. The one in your car may also work.
Ned

On Feb 19, 2013, at 3:16 PM, Craig Carmichael wrote:

> In my e-outboard tests I couldn't measure the speed of the boat. I
> bought a pitot tube, but the speedometer I found for it goes from
> 0-60 MPH and the first marking is at 10 MPH. The next one is at 15.
> (From 40 to 60 each MPH is widely spaced - exactly the opposite of
> what's needed.)
>
> Blowing into the pitot tube, it takes all the pressure I can make to
> move the needle just a little.
>
> There must be some more sensitive transducer that can be used with a
> pitot tube? Or is there some other way to measure speed that doesn't
> cost a lot?
>
> Cheers,
> Craig
>
> =====
>

Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:03 pm (PST) . Posted by:

"Mike" mbianka2000

If you (or a friend) have a Blackberry or another "smart phone" there is a GPS app you can buy for $1.99. I use it on board as a back up to my chart plotter.  Works pretty well.

Capt. Mike
http://biankablog.blogspot.com/

____________ _________ _________ __
From: oak mailto:oak_box%40yahoo.com>
To: "mailto:electricboats%40yahoogroups.com" mailto:electricboats%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 4:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Measuring boat water speed for low speed & cost


 
Agreed.  You can probably get a cheap handheld GPS for around $100 - cheaper when they're discontinuing models.
For my power boat, I took the car gps and used that to check boat speed.
For slow speeds, it's probably better to use a handheld gps that's designed for hiking.

Be aware that the GPS will read total speed "over ground" .   NOT your speed through the water.   That means you have to compensate for current and wind.
Generally speaking - this means running at the same power level over several different directions, and averaging the speed that you record.

____________ _________ _________ __
From: Robert Lemke mailto:robert-lemke%40att.net>
To: mailto:electricboats%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 2:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Measuring boat water speed for low speed & cost


 
Handheld GPS.

--- On Tue, 2/19/13, Craig Carmichael mailto:craig%40saers.com> wrote:

>From: Craig Carmichael mailto:craig%40saers.com>
>Subject: [Electric Boats] Measuring boat water speed for low speed & cost
>To: mailto:electricboats%40yahoogroups.com
>Date: Tuesday, February 19, 2013, 12:16 PM
>
>
>In my e-outboard tests I couldn't measure the speed of the boat. I
>bought a pitot tube, but the speedometer I found for it goes from
>0-60 MPH and the first marking is at 10 MPH. The next one is at 15.
>(From 40 to 60 each MPH is widely spaced - exactly the opposite of
>what' s needed.)
>
>Blowing into the pitot tube, it takes all the pressure I can make to
>move the needle just a little.
>
>There
must be some more sensitive transducer that can be used with a
>pitot tube? Or is there some other way to measure speed that doesn't
>cost a lot?
>
>Cheers,
>Craig
>
>=====
>
>
>-------- --------- --------- --------- -
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:19 pm (PST) . Posted by:

"Craig Carmichael" craigcarmichaelis

I made my smaller 24 volt motor based on my "Electric Hubcap" design,
which I've titled the "Electric Caik" (ElectricCake. com being
already taken).

Then I put it in a Honda 75 (7.5HP) outboard shell with a fairly
steep pitch prop. I don't want to run it over about 2000 RPM and of
course there's that nasty 2.6(?) to 1 speed reduction in the foot, so
I couldn't run it flat out and the prop sits there "idling" away at
around 770 RPM.

But I put it on my 14' aluminum boat and tried it out on Saturday. I
couldn't tell the boat speed. A strong wind pushed the boat around
some.

Yesterday I put up video clips someone took:

http://youtu.be/zrtE6yHSFRw - rundown of the setup

http://youtu.be/jen-WpfaM4k - pulling out

http://youtu.be/-L3yHhgoFmE - a bit more

['Fraid they're pretty low rez. Another guy had a hi-rez camera but I
don't have his shots yet - if he took any. The batteries in my own
cam decided to die just before launch. I'll have a video showing the
makings of the Electric Caik soon, but it needs editing.]

The motor drew 50 amps getting up to somewhere around 2000 RPM. A
couple of times I got up a bit over that (2200?) with currents to
almost 60 amps.

60A * 24V = 1440 watts or 2 horsepower. The motor temperature only
rose 17ºc, so I imagine it would handle the full rated power
indefinitely.

Interesting efficiency notes: hitting 2000 RPM with the motor alone
took maybe 140 watts. Some if not much of that was friction from the
excessive grease in the needle bearings, and some has now oozed out
during running. Running it in the outboard in air 2000 RPM took 380 W
(1/2 HP), which shows how much friction there is in the outboard
mechanism - bearings & gears. It's probably pretty typical.

[Motor specs: 24V, 0-127A, 3KW(4HP), 0-2000RPM, axial flux, 8 -
1x2x.375" supermagnets on 7.5" O.D. rotor, 6 iron powder toroid core
coils coated with ilmenite in sodium silicate, molded
polypropylene- epoxy composite body parts, 9.25" O.D. x ~4", 15
pounds.]

Cheers,
Craig
Victoria BC

=====

Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:11 pm (PST) . Posted by:

"matwete@comcast.net" electric_barge_boat

By a knotstick... eg www.knotstick. com

From my HTC Sensation 4G on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network

----- Reply message -----
From: "Craig Carmichael" mailto:craig%40saers.com>
To: mailto:electricboats%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Electric Boats] Measuring boat water speed for low speed & cost
Date: Tue, Feb 19, 2013 12:16 pm
In my e-outboard tests I couldn't measure the speed of the boat. I

bought a pitot tube, but the speedometer I found for it goes from

0-60 MPH and the first marking is at 10 MPH. The next one is at 15.

(From 40 to 60 each MPH is widely spaced - exactly the opposite of

what's needed.)

Blowing into the pitot tube, it takes all the pressure I can make to

move the needle just a little.

There must be some more sensitive transducer that can be used with a

pitot tube? Or is there some other way to measure speed that doesn't

cost a lot?

Cheers,

Craig

=====

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