Thursday, September 8, 2011

RE: [Electric Boats] Cooling motors

 

“i will test the system up to the point just below failure”

 

To test an electric motor to close to failure will most likely damage the polymers used in the motor or destroy commutators.

 

With electric always  keep the motor as cool as possible. It will not harm its materials, it wont help its performance and it will help ensure a reliability and a long service life – in brushless the coils and magnets & their bonding benefit from cool running.  In brushed motors water cooling on the brush hoods can help avoid brush damage and may help the commutator (use a small bilge pump running under volted).

 

When measuring motor temp avoid using case temps unless the case is in direct contact with the coils and be conservative. The coils themselves are a better indicator of heating – use an infrared thermometer for that. If brushed the brush/commutator interface will be the hottest part of the motor and the first to fail (unless you overvolt into catstrophic iron losses)

 

The best way to keep a motor cool is to run it at the highest recommended voltage within its highest efficiency amp range – rpms of  85-93% of peak rpm for the voltage under load are generally correct for permanent mag neodymium motors.

 

Gearing gearing may be useful to run as a close as possible to peak efficiency rpm given the prop you have.  The most efficient way to run is always full throttle at say 85-92% of peak rpms (given the voltage underload). First the speed controls are more efficient – about 3% in brushed but up to 50% in brushless. Gearing by varying prop speed and keeping the motor rpm constant allows the amp draw to be increased or reduced – we are looking for reduction, so optimal gearing  and a shorter gear for cruising at low amps and high throttle settings

 

Electrics are a simple technology unlike internal combustion which can be radically affected by a range of environmental factors. Once the operating range of electric is known, and temp measurements checked and ok, the motor will run consistently in that range given similar throttle and air temps. Once these are established the bearings are an important failure point which should also be monitored as wear there will increase temps and reduce motor effiency

 

 

 

 

Andrew Gilchrist

www.fastelectrics.com

612 4982 5481

Australia


From: electricboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:electricboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Mccomb
Sent: Thursday, 8 September 2011 10:56 PM
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Cooling motors

 

 

thanks Capt. Mike,  i think that no matter what i end up with in the end i will have to test the motors abilities to the point of heat related shutdown or at least, if i can read the temps via perhaps the controller, i will test the system up to the point just below failure...  i completely agree that KISS is the way to go and an additional fan or two seems pretty much a no-brainer....

 

i am more and more wanting to take a shot at doing this all myself with two or three of the ME0913 motors...  looks fairly straight forward....  pulleys, drive belts, bearings, shaft, frame to support it all.... when i think of possibly three motors i have to wonder about a double sided drive belt, i have no idea of the appropriate terminology but a sort of... M configuration for the three motors with the powered shaft directly below the M... motors in parallel???  or i perhaps not but I must learn more as i am out of my depth at the moment.... do you know, does a motor such as a ME0913 require an individual controller due to some sort of frequency feedback that the motor must supply?

 


From: Mike <biankablog@verizon.net>
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2011 7:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Cooling motors

 


When I was converting my boat back in 2008 I came upon some brand new surplus 48 volt fans that I thought might come in handy in keeping the motor cool. I thought I might place a snap disc switch on the housing that would turn on the fan at a certain temperature. But, after the install  I have found it really has not been necessary to do this but, it probably could not hurt either. When I get more ambitious  I might look into adding this to my system. Since it works within my KISS (Keep it simple sailor) thoughts of electric propulsion.

 

As for water cooling I think it adds another layer of complexity (especially on a boat) not only with I assume having some type of pump to circulate the coolant but, to me also some concerns about corrosion and dissimilar metals especially in a salt water environment possibly requiring sacrificial zincs etc...  Anyway it's just some issues that I think needs to be considered when installing them on a boat.

 

Capt. Mike

 

 

 

 
--- On Wed, 9/7/11, Eric <ewdysar@yahoo.com> wrote:


From: Eric <ewdysar@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Electric Boats] Re: belt drives vs directly coupled motor shafts and torque
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, September 7, 2011, 6:26 PM

 

Hi Jeremy,

Propulsion Marine has tested their external water cooling adapter and a 12V forced air fan and have documented a 30C reduction in motor temps under full load for a Motenergy ME0913. Data was collected using the manufacturer installed temp sensor buried in the windings.

Neither of these mods are overly difficult and don't require any modifications of the motor itself. There is some fabrication needed, programming of the controller, and of course wiring the fan and plumbing the cooler. To me, the results seem worth it for customers that need the extra power throughput. The price premium for the cooled drive system seems reasonable for someone like me that doesn't want to refine (rebuild) their modifications multiple times while performing their own R&D. Apparently, another part of the price difference between the 5.5kW and 7kW systems is a beefier gearbox to handle the increased power.

If I had a bigger boat, around 14,000lb displacement, I would probably go this route. Of course, I'm already a satisfied customer so I might be biased.

Fair winds,
Eric
Marina del Rey, CA

--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jeremy" <jeremy_harris_uk@...> wrote:
>
> I'd say that cooling the motors is always a very good thing to do, if you can find an efficient way to do it. Because the motor winding resistance is strongly temperature dependent (it increases with increasing temperature) the cooler you can keep the windings the lower their resistance will be and hence the lower their resistive losses will be. A side effect is that because cooler windings have less loss they don't produce as much heat for a given torque, so keeping them cool even when you're not drawing a lot of torque from them is beneficial.
>
> Most motors don't easily lend themselves to water cooling, without some fairly difficult modifications, which is a shame, as we are almost always surrounded by water that is both cooler than the air around us and around 24 times better than it at getting rid of heat. If you can arrange direct water cooling of the motor windings, then there will be both a modest efficiency gain in normal use and a significant increase in the maximum continuous current that the motor will handle.
>
> Jeremy
>

 

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