SW,
I think the board trips when any of the Mosfets hit 55c, though it might be 65c, I'd have to look it up.
Jerry
Sent from my Sprint Tablet.
-------- Original message --------
From: "sw via groups.io" <v1opps=yahoo.com@groups.io>
Date: 6/14/21 8:24 AM (GMT-04:00)
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: Re: Chinese manufacturers and quality [electricboats] Anyone uses a used EV car battery for powering ?
Ok great info thanks
My old boards are set up with 280 and never had that problem
I lowered to 180. May have to go to 100 as you have then
Cheers
On Monday, June 14, 2021, 05:12:32 AM PDT, shredderf16 <shredderf16@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
SW,
The balance temp sensor is on the board but it is on one end of the balance Mosfet. The power Mosfet sensor is the same way. So the Mosfets that are furthest away from the sensor could be hotter. I got my balance current set at 100 Ma and that seems to keep the temp at 35c.
Jerry Barth
Sent from my Sprint Tablet.
-------- Original message --------
From: "sw via groups.io" <v1opps=yahoo.com@groups.io>
Date: 6/14/21 1:16 AM (GMT-04:00)
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: Re: Chinese manufacturers and quality [electricboats] Anyone uses a used EV car battery for powering ?
I went from zero like my old ones have in it to 500a in the level 2 overcurrent protection line and it went away
Now I get balance high temp went from 280ma like my old one to 190 ma added a metal pan on top to help cool it so now goes between auto balance and balance high temp
Hate to lower it more but maybe I'll try to lower it
Ok u just recently retired
Think even aa got rid of their md80's now
Cheers
On Sunday, June 13, 2021, 06:46:30 PM PDT, shredderf16 <shredderf16@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
SW,
Looks like balance is off from your screenshot. On the VBMS app is a button in settings "Force Balance". Try that and then check back later to see if balance stays on. I took early retirement buyout due to pandemic. Came at a very good time for us.
Jerry
Sent from my Sprint Tablet.
-------- Original message --------
From: "sw via groups.io" <v1opps=yahoo.com@groups.io>
Date: 6/13/21 9:30 PM (GMT-04:00)
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: Re: Chinese manufacturers and quality [electricboats] Anyone uses a used EV car battery for powering ?
Actually no load on it at all now except the screen which will no longer power up
Little sm led light on the screen by the buttons comes on for a few seconds but no screen any more
It's just the android software that comes with it
Maybe I should of got just an equalizer I mainly just use it for that
It can't handle much load
Yea the l10-500 had the active flight controls
DLC aoa and the big ball they built very sophisticated bird
For its time
Hope you retired before they slashed retirement jo made it out just in time
Cheers
On Sunday, June 13, 2021, 04:40:28 PM PDT, shredderf16 <shredderf16@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
SW,
Hey, at least you got it halfway working! I've never seen that message, it looks like it says Level 2 Failure. This is a different app than I'm using. The good things are that it's reading all the voltages and since the app is working you have the Bluetooth working too. So it looks like your wiring is correct.
I've noticed it doesn't like starting up with any load at all connected. So try starting it up with all loads off and give it a minute or two to settle down then connect loads. If that doesn't work try in the settings to turn "Discharge Off" (the VBMS app has this, hope your's does too) and back on and see if the message comes back on. Please report what happens, this is a fun project. In the VBMS app if I try to crank it up with load attached I get "Abnormal Start" and have to power down to clear it.
Never flew the L-1011. Rode in the jumpseat a lot commuting. The last big jet designed with fuel economy as last priority. Incredible power (even for a fighter guy). Witnessed a lot of last legs on a trip when the boys really wanted to get home and we were pushing .95 Mach. Tech was very cool for late 70s tech. Direct lift control! Had a below deck galley with rumoured top less flight attendants (it got hot with all the ovens going). I flew 737s and mainly DC-9 variants (MD-88, MD-90, and B-717). Probably the last jetliners where every second the engines were running she was trying to kill you. Very quirky but the last jets that could be safely landed with no electric or hydraulic power. The young guys were all scared and moved on to newer stuff as fast as they could. All gone now!
Hope this helps,
Jerry Barth
Sent from my Sprint Tablet.
-------- Original message --------
From: "sw via groups.io" <v1opps=yahoo.com@groups.io>
Date: 6/13/21 2:52 PM (GMT-04:00)
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: Re: Chinese manufacturers and quality [electricboats] Anyone uses a used EV car battery for powering ?
Have you ever seen this on ant bms?
Cheers
![Inline image]()
On Saturday, June 12, 2021, 14:02, shredderf16 <Shredderf16@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
SW,
We were in Korea about 4 months/year deployed from Alaska. I just finished a 20 year career with Delta. Your board looks a lot different than the 3 I bought. This is it:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/10s-24s-Smart-Ant-Bms-Bluetooth-Lifepo4-Li-ion-Lto-Battery-Protection-Board/284254675052?hash=item422ee6206c:g:kQkAAOSwHEhgdCaH&pageci=93b6598b-0236-4bab-a383-b942b3869343&redirect=mobile
Except with more Mosfets and more wires as the amperage goes up. Vortecks is a very gruff guy, I doubt he'll ever do an apple version. Here is his very entertaining video:
https://youtu.be/Z7M_kNB7ltI
We thought about buying a cheap phone but will try to find a good apple app first.
Jerry Barth
Sent from my Sprint Tablet.
-------- Original message --------
From: "sw via groups.io" <v1opps=yahoo.com@groups.io>
Date: 6/12/21 10:32 AM (GMT-04:00)
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: Re: Chinese manufacturers and quality [electricboats] Anyone uses a used EV car battery for powering ?
I have used other versions before and they all had a switch on left side
This one dosnt have switch with it
And different jst plugs on it
After digging on the net I just now did see one pic with switch on right side via jst plug but no plug came with it
I attached pic of that
I just use it for balancing because it can't take the load, I believe their rating is peak power only
I did see they have an Apple app out now with new version
Hopefullly the Apple app with work with old version
Maybe not if this attached pic is right
Maybe vortec has an iOS version now
Or get a used $10 android phone for your friend ?
I have the red wire and the last white wire soldered together now
As I did in previous versions
So would have to un solder to bench test it
Korea and China now have a lot of xpat pilots or did until the virus got out
Japan has a few too
After your fun day you join the airlines?
Cheers
On Saturday, June 12, 2021, 06:09:24 AM PDT, shredderf16 <shredderf16@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Depending on the board (I have seen 2 different configurations) the power switch pins/plug is on the side or end. Only 2 wires no polarity. Hook it to a momentary on pushbutton. 3 second press is on, 5 second press off. You can also jumper it but then you will lose its powering down function if the battery voltage gets too low. To bench test run at least 30 vdc from the battery minus lead to the last battery positive lead (not the balancing wire for the last cell) which should be a red wire vs white on the plug with the number 15-24 balancing wires. The LED has that message you mentioned because the board isn't powered.
For the app the Chinese version is junk. The good one only in Android is called VBMS by Vortecs. Vortecs is a pissed off English guy who got angry enough to make an app to replace the crappy Chinese one. Best $8 you'll ever spend. I'm putting one of these boards in for my Apple only friend so I'll report back if we find a good Apple app.
I've got 9 months of running time on the 1st board with zero problems. The coulumb meter function is the only thing I've found potentially wrong. I have a Victron BMV shunt hooked up as well and the 2 differ by 20-30%. I need to do some more checking to be really sure but for now I trust the Victron.
The amp capabilities look really exaggerated to me based on the wire sizes coming out of it. The first one I bought was 250A with 4 wires coming out each side. If you add up the cross section of those wires they might make one 5 Awg wire if there was such a size, so good for maybe 80-100 amps. The latest one is 600 amps with 8x12 Awg wires, so might actually make it with 200 amps or so. All the boards are restricted to 50 amps on the charging side.
I did find a manual, don't remember where but it was a difficult search. Some of the Ebay peeps have a series of pictures on their sites that have pages of the manual.
It's actually a good product except for the app and documentation. I'm mounting them on plywood boards inside of ventilated Tupperware containers, worked well so far. And I would way over size it based on the wiring issues.
Jerry Barth
Sent from my Sprint Tablet.
-------- Original message --------
From: Jeff LaCoursiere <jeff@stratustalk.com>
Date: 6/12/21 6:46 AM (GMT-04:00)
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: Re: Chinese manufacturers and quality [electricboats] Anyone uses a used EV car battery for powering ?
The ant bms requires a momentary pushbutton on two pins to turn on power, requires at least 3v if I recall correctly. If you Google you will find the right pins, I'm not in a position to look it up right now sorry!
Everyone runs into this because the docs are terrible!
i finally got the ant bms wired uo for 32s
and it dosnt seem to turn on screen says connect bms
rechecked all the wires many times still no go
no replies from china
then they though of CRM...
cheers
I think a lot of this stuff has to do with culture, and the maturation of what markets expect. In the 60s "made in Japan" meant "junk" until Honda and Toyota came along. In the USAF deployed to train with a Japanese F-15 Squadron in the early 90s one of my less PC fighter squadron mates responded to the question of a Japanese F-15J (J model F-15s were co-manufactured in Japan) pilot's question. "So Ringo-san what do you think the "J" stands for? Ringo-san responded "Junk". Fortunately our Japanese friends were excellent partiers, I've never since seen a larger Whiskey supply in one place. All was forgotten, including who was supposed to stay sober enough to drive our medium sized bus home. As I was held upside down by my friends for some infraction in the back of the bus I remember seeing our commander physically rip our valiant second in command out of the driver's seat because we were on the wrong side of the road (Japan has left hand drive) and take the wheel. In fighter pilot world at least by that time the Japanese had adopted the "Western" quality model. In debrief they acknowledged mistakes (they weren't worried about "loss of face"). Which is the key to being better. And they were fairly good, certainly better than some European AFs. Brits rest easy, your's is easily along with the Israelis the best. And that culture was reflected in Japan's products, which by that time led the world.
We spent a lot of time in Korea then. We called it "The land of not quite right". They were building the crap out of that country then. Lot's of new shiny stuff. But everything from hotel rooms to cars to lighters had something wrong with it. They were still big into "face". And it was reflected into the quality of their AF. They didn't acknowledge their mistakes and didn't learn. We slaughtered them in training.
They still haven't learned, at least in the airline world. The last 4 wrecks over 15 years they've had have been the same one. Where one or more experienced pilots sit on their hands and watch a more senior guy pile into the ground because they were afraid to bring up his mistakes.
I've never been to China but 2 of my sons have been on technical fellowships. From what they told me sounds like early 90s Korea. That being said all the stuff in my off grid island house power system is Chinese. It's worked well. I did have a flawed BMS which I replaced with Ant BMS. But batteries, and solar charger/inverter have worked fine. The solar charger/inverter is the most impressive. 5kw. $900 compared to the $4k Victron equivalent. Even though it is excellent, I can't tell you a brand name without looking at it. That's their weakness, we can't figure out what's good or bad. In our culture bad products are exterminated fairly quickly by bad reviews and lawsuits. In their's if the company is state controlled or affiliated there's no such check. For me knowing nothing (it was getting in on friend's buy for free shipping, no small deal on an Island) it turned out well. But it could have been disastrous.
Jerry Barth
Sent from my Sprint Tablet.
-------- Original message --------
Date: 6/11/21 8:10 PM (GMT-04:00)
Subject: Re: Chinese manufacturers and quality [electricboats] Anyone uses a used EV car battery for powering ?
Hi Ryan, Jeff, and Capt. Carter,
Thanks for your comments!
Well, now that there's a thread regarding quality, I'll feel a little less constrained about writing my perspective on this topic. I've learned a bit about quality and "intellectual property" theft by running a business that involved manufacturing products. But what I know could fit on a sticky note relative to the volumes that some people on this forum know. I discovered the first theft of our intellectual property in Europe - not what I had expected, considering we had shipped more product to other places! Others later suggested to me that intellectual property theft is not likely to be a problem for my business because the volume available in my market is low. On giving it further thought, I realized that "intellectual property" is a pretty strange idea to someone who didn't grow up with it. So is a corporation. Or land ownership. They're all tools that exist because of what they enable.
Factories in China would not be as successful as they are if they weren't capable of excellent quality control. What varies over time and management direction is what happens to the products that fail the tests. Instead of sending them to a landfill, some factories let them flow out through other sales channels where quality headaches cannot return. Maybe that's why the 5000 mAh Li-ion cells I bought on ebay tested at ~515 mAh. "It *is* 5000 mAh, it even says so on the label!" The seller refunded my money but probably didn't hear any complaint from the other buyers. With moderate markup, a 5-10% customer return rate is very sustainable.
Back in the old days, faulty products in circulation would have had the factory's name on them. Long-term thinking meant it was very important what the company's reputation would be 5 months, 5 years, or even 5 decades later. Fortunately, such attitudes are hard to forget because they're in culture. They may no longer dominate, but they won't disappear. I don't think we can easily go back to the "old way" because short-term thinking is driven by shareholders who tend to invest for periods from a mere minutes to a few months. I think all three of you are adapting to a changing world. It *will* work because it *must* work and it's the only thing that *can* work!
Cheers,
Halden
--
Jeff LaCoursiere
s/v Angels Quest
St Thomas USVI
