| Dear Arby, Your story about the Coastguard acting on "brushes in the bilge" doesn't make sense at all, if they were happy with the replacement diesels, since the starter motors of those diesels were brushed as well and living in the bilge, so what was gained? According to you, NO electric starting ICE boats would be sea-legal. One of us must be a little confused...
Rob on Linda --- On Tue, 7/26/11, Arby bernt <arbybernt@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Arby bernt <arbybernt@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Electric Boats] re: Hybrid drive
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 1:09 PM
Dear Ben,
While I can understand WFCO's position (I too have spent some quality time with their engineering department), you should consider that most of the currently installed e-drives do not meet Coast Guard regulations, specifically having open brushes in the bilge.
Several years ago, before I had any interest in boat motors, I was asked to look at an installation in a trimaran. The boat's previous owner had converted it to electric using a 72v forklift motor and a Lombardini diesel generator using a Zena 24v alternator. They asked me to confirm the system was stable and sea-worthy. I would not. The reason was the open brushes in the bilge. At the time, I was working on UL approval for an explosion-proof fuel transfer pump, as well as rebuilding my own boat using only Marine UL approved devices. I told them the boat was a time bomb. One pin-hole propane leak, and the whole thing would crater. Later, I came to find out the new owners were stuck off of Santa Barbara in a lull, and could not motor the boat because the pitifully under-powered drive. They called the Coasties for help, but were told since there was no threat to life or limb, the Coast Guard would not tow them in. When I found out, I called the Coast Guard, and told them the boat had open brushes in the bilge which presented a clear and present danger. That was just what the Coast Guard needed to act. A cutter was dispatched, the boat was towed to port, and condemned, based on the open brushes. A diesel motor was fitted, the Coast Guard approved it, and the boat continued to Mexico.
So, Ben, you tell me. How many e-boats have open brushes in the bilge? Every ASMO, all the early Electric Yacht systems, the MasterVolt Lynch units, and the DIY brushed Mars motors...Are they "Coast Guard Approved'? Should the Coast Guard be alerted? How many Honda generators have you seen confiscated?
The WFCO units have all the required design features, including a conformal-coated PCB, fuses and flame-proof resistors, but they never saw the return from the market, and hadn't bothered to get the stamp (about $40k worth of "testing", gag). They are not the only option, IOTA makes a similar marine approved unit at 24v, 35a, which would work just fine. Lacking Coast Guard approval is a big no-no on an insurance claim, but carries little weight otherwise. Having an ignition source in the motor room, however, would be cause for action. I've had several Coast Guard officers visit my installs, and they all love them. The WFCO power converters are never mounted in the motor compartments, as I feel the lack of a "marine" rating means they shouldn't be exposed to open water. Instead, we mount them in the cabins, using fuses at both ends, far away from any splashing water. As far as the 11v operational threshold, just turn off the motor for a few minutes, and the batteries will come up to 11v just resting. Why would you ever run a battery down to under 11v anyway? The whole idea of having a secondary power system is to prevent going below 40% DOD and keep your string healthy. I don't know who you spoke with at WFCO, but the units we install have a three stage charger that kicks in as soon as the voltage goes over 13.2v. We've installed a bunch of them now, and have had great results. One boat has two 55a 900w converters which have been run for many hours off a 2kw Honda with no problem. I have yet to see a charger that can deliver that kind of current, save a forklift charging station. While 20a from Zivan might be fine for a little bump, it won't get you out of a jamb when you need real power. The 55a units I use in lab testing (paralleled with 100Ah batteries) have run for weeks with no problems. They keep the batteries charged up just fine when idle.
Pardon the "rant". I hope the best for us all, brushed and brushless, We need safe and stable systems to prove our mettle, and should be working as a team regardless of affiliations. Just one boat going up as a result of poor design would damage the industry as a whole. Establishing electric drives as viable alternatives will only be as successful as the power systems that keep them dependable. I know our Ericson with its DualPro chargers alone does not meet that criterion. The DualPros do not function as a power converters. We keep a long shaft outboard in a dry sack and five gallons of stabilized fuel on board as a result. I feel that installs using power converters and a generator are viable options for extended motoring.
I look forward to your reply.
Be Well, Arby
ps: I'm in Thailand now, and amazed at the number of long-tails and the tremendous racket and stink their diesel engines make. My family and I have gone on a couple of canal cruises, and come back deaf and reeking of exhaust, to say nothing of the pilots who run them day after day. I'll be back here to establish a motor company for tourist boats using e-drives, silent and clean. Anybody interested in joining me is welcome, and can contact me off list.
--- On Mon, 7/25/11, Ben Okopnik <ben@linuxgazette.net> wrote:
From: Ben Okopnik <ben@linuxgazette.net>
I got interested in the whole power converter thing, and called up WFCO.
Got a... let's call it "fascinating"... earful. First off, I was told
categorically - by one of their engineers, no less - that "these units
aren't marine-rated, so if the Coast Guard finds out, they'll make you
take it off your boat (!!!)" Next, they told me that, once the batteries
fall below 11V or so, a converter won't charge them... they're strictly
for driving appliances, not charging batteries. When asked if they make
anything like a charger, the answer was a clear "no".
I just ordered a 1kW Meanwell charger, which appears to have quite a
good rep among the "off-the-grid" crowd and which I can drive from my
Honda eu2000i generator; that seems like a pretty decent start on _that_
end of the system. Next comes the set of Crown GC6 batteries and 6 135W
Kyocera solar panels... yep, I've got a bit of work ahead of me. :)
Incidentally, if anyone has an e-boat in the NY/NJ area, I'd love to
meet up for some electrifying conversation. I'll happily buy a six-pack
of electrolyte to stimulate the flow of electrons... I mean, ideas. :)
--
Ben Okopnik
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