Arby: Interesting info about the power converters. But, since I've already invested in the Zivan NG-1 and also a Dual Pro and they are both working for me I won't be looking to "fix it" for awhile. I do like having the Dual Pro in the cabin so I can see the display's easily. I have not had any heat problems but. most of my bulk charging is done by the Zivan and the Dual Pro is for balancing the bank and charging the last few amps into it. But, when I'm at a dock (which is not often) I will usually just use the Dual Pro since I have the time to let it charge over night. Thanks for the info. Capt. Mike
--- On Sun, 7/24/11, Arby bernt <arbybernt@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Arby bernt <arbybernt@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Hybrid drive
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, July 24, 2011, 5:56 PM
Hello Captain Mike, Power converters were news to me too, but old school for the RV industry. They're designed for "shore power" when an RV pulls into a campground for the night, and all the on board appliances are designed for 12v operation. Power converters, as a result, expect to support a continuous load, are fan cooled, and are protected by built-in fuses. A bonus feature is the three stage charging they offer when no load is present. I've been using power converters to support long term testing in the motor lab, since building a 10kw supply can be done for far less than a traditional uber-power supply. While I've installed several on boats, our test boat (an Ericson 27) still has a pair of DualPro Quad output chargers that work fine for overnight charging, but quickly spaz when running under load. In addition, the DualPro requires an air flow to keep cool, as the sealed unit has little built-in cooling capacity. Our DualPro's are mounted on a beefy aluminum plates in the cabin as a result of over-heating, which probably contributed heavily to the first ones failing. DualPro did warranty it, thank you. I used fan cooling and a thermal snap switch (Grainger), to ensure the same would not happen to customers. No units have failed since.
Be Well, Arby Bernt, AMeP
--- On Sun, 7/24/11, Capt. Mike <biankablog@verizon.net> wrote:
From: Capt. Mike <biankablog@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Hybrid drive
To: "ELECTRIC BOAT GROUP" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, July 24, 2011, 7:33 AM
Arby
When I was converting to EP back in 2008 I think Ample Power had a 48 volt 100 amp diesel generator which was always a plan B for me. But, since the Honda 2000 generator has met my all my needs at 1/5th the cost I never went down that route. Also I was not looking forward to installing another diesel ICE below deck if I did not need to. Sounds similar to what you were looking at.
When you mention "power converters" are they the same as smart battery chargers like my Zivan NG-1 which has been working well for my needs. Including motoring.
Capt. Mike
Capt. Mike
Sent from on board BIANKA
http://biankablog.blogspot.com
From: Arby Bernt <arbybernt@yahoo.com> Sender: electricboats@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2011 22:02:28 -0700 (PDT) To: <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> ReplyTo: electricboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Hybrid drive
Check out the Kubota Low Boy generator. Ample Power has been using the engine and a Zena alternator for 24vdc telecom standby power with excellent results. I've yet to experiment with one. I did do a little work on a 48vdc 6kw genny using a one lung air cooled diesel purchased from AffordableGenerator.com, but it is so noisey and shakey, I decided to focus on motors instead. A portable gas genny and RV power converters seem like a much better option. In two years of rental service, only once has a boat been stranded with dead batteries in SF Bay. With the power converters, a genny can be dropped off by speedboat, and the boat motored home. I tried the same using the DualPro Quad charger on our test boat, but smart chargers do not respond well to a drain during operation, cycling constantly the one time I tried it. Power converters, on the other hand, are designed for loaded output, feature a fold-back over current protection if pushed too hard, and have a three stage charger built in. WFCO makes 80% of the RV market, IOTA makes a marine duty model ($$$). I've been using 55 amp WFCO units on each 12v section of the string with very good results. Seams we are waiting for the production of a micro deisel. 4 cyl. Fresh water cooled. Common rail injection. Bio fuel compatable. Thimble sized cylenders. 3hp. With 2kw perm mag gen. Comes in sound enclosure. And under 80 lbs. Kevin Shepherd On 2011-07-23 7:38 PM, "James Lambden" <james@toolboat.com> wrote:
Gentlemen,
In determining the suitability of a hybrid drive for a sailboat one must consider the duty cycle of the diesel generator.
If the boat consumes small amounts of power, and the batteries are used as a buffer to the large output of a diesel generator, then it makes sense.
If the duty cycle is 10 to 1, then hybrid is an obvious advantage, the batteries won't get cycled that often so they won't wear out early, and the diesel generator will be charging the batteries at the diesel's optimum efficiency.
If the duty cycle is 1 to 1, then the hybrid is not advantageous at all.
It all depends on how you use your boat. It is my observation that the way boats are used in the Santa Barbara Harbor, that Hybrid Propulsion would be a great advantage. Most boats use their diesels very infrequently, some getting a tank of gas once per year at most.
One also has to consider the percentage of energy used by the house, and the percentage used for propulsion. With boats that use more energy for their house than for propulsion, once again hybrid wins because a DC generator is upwards of 3 times as efficient as a belt driven alternator.
The final remaining factor to determine if hybrid technology is appropriate for someones vessel is how pleasant life on board can be. Diesel Generators can be mounted in a lazarette - outside the living spaces of the boat. And an electric motor is far nicer to live with than a diesel - anyday.
My firm belief is that diesels make for a better motor boat, and electrics, be it battery electric, solar electric or diesel electric, make for better sailboats.
Now if I can only figure out how to automate the tracker for my 450 watt solar array......
Pictures coming soon
James
On Jul 22, 2011, at 10:27 PM, Eric wrote:
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> Hi Kerry,
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> So what you're saying is that ...
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