On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 9:57 PM, john via groups.io<oak_box=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:Ryan,There are some subtle things about tying batteries in parallel.If you are building your bank from basic cells, with large conductors, that's one thing.If you're using 48V battery systems with built in BMS's, that may or may not work.In any event, you have to be sure you have thick enough cables running everywhere.In that regard, parallel batteries are easier to use for extending range than increasing the max amperage (for shorter periods of time).Technically, in theory - you can either increase the max load or increase the range by adding more batteries in parallel. Just be careful. The hard part with parallel systems is ensuring that the power is being equally drawn from all systems, and then that all systems equally charge at the same time/rate/voltage.Good luck!JohnOn Wednesday, October 28, 2020, 07:39:09 PM CDT, Ryan Sweet <ryan@ryansweet.org> wrote:Ok, I adjusted my googling terms and was able to answer my own question, yes in parallel the max draw will increase. Sorry for the super basic question. Was one of moments of second guessing myself after having figured this out once previously and then the doubt turns to imposter syndrome and well, you get the idea.> On Oct 28, 2020, at 17:11, Ryan Sweet via groups.io <ryan=ryansweet.org@groups.io> wrote:>> > I'm looking at battery options and I see a 48v 200ah battery with a max discharge of 60a. If 4 of this this battery is in 4p, at 800ah, will that also allow for increased max draw to the motor or will it still be 60a?>>>>
Thursday, October 29, 2020
Re: [electricboats] Max amp in parallel?
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Re: [electricboats] Quest for 2X Hull Speed
Beautiful boat. Perhaps you can find oversized brushes and cut them down to the proper size? I think the brushless motor can help significantly to operate beyond hull speed where efficiency is of utmost importance because the overall weight becomes a critical factor. Based on my research, a properly sized brushless motor can have higher efficiency and be more efficient over a wider range of power levels. With that being said, the ETEK and Motenergy brushed motors look like solid choices for bigger displacement hulls.
Keith
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Re: [electricboats] Max amp in parallel?
I'm looking at battery options and I see a 48v 200ah battery with a max discharge of 60a. If 4 of this this battery is in 4p, at 800ah, will that also allow for increased max draw to the motor or will it still be 60a?
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Re: [electricboats] Quest for 2X Hull Speed
Nice cooling system. Do you monitor the current or wattage? If not, there are shunt displays on Amazon for $20 that really help to understand the performance. It would be helpful to know that in relation to the amount of heat you are generating. I did finally find one of the Amazon vendors posted the datasheet. It looks like that motor is about 80% efficient within the designed operating range, so combined with the current/wattage above that would give some indication of the heat generated. Also, I think you can reverse two of your motor leads to reverse the direction of the motor. Nice find on the Piranha propellers, thanks.
Keith
On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 08:34 AM, Ryan G wrote:
here are some pics of my retrofit:
I really wanted a water-cooled motor, so I wound 3/8 aluminum tube, also from amazon, around the controller and motor body, as both got hot enough to fry eggs. Remember, for every 20 degrees F over 180, service life of metal on metal parts is reduced by a factor of around 50%!!!I used 3/16" plate aluminum, some angle, and 1/8" blind rivets to fab the adapter bracket.Also visible in photos is a 48v to 12v step down converter (another amazon find at $15), to power the small daphrgm pump to provide cooling. My original plan had been to use the impeller still located in the foot of the old 9.9, however, and much to my chagrin,The motor kit I bought in "forward" operation mode (sold as an e-bike mid-drive retro), counter rotates the original 2 stroke powerhead, and "reverse" is limited to like 20% of forward. so that means that the f/w selector lever is actually reversed now with the electric motor. That also means that the offset on the impeller housing is backwards, so the electric pump was the simplest solution.Also note worthy- the thrust bushings still function as intended, but being that the gears are now counter rotating their original config, I thought it would be wise to drain the gear oil and refill it with zddp additive, undiluted, for a period before replacing it with my standard Lucas gear oil; to help to reduce any potential galling and re-burnish the gears in their new rotation direction.The most challenging aspect of this re-fit was developing a power coupling to go from the 11-tooth sprocket meant for bicycle chain and getting it to mesh acceptably to the 4-square cut-tooth spline of the lower on the Johnson. After wrecking the shaft on one motor (cut to d-shaft that subsequently snapped off), I ended up chopping the ass end off of the crank from the original locked up powerhead. I then traced the 11-tooth sprocket onto the cylinder that was left on top of the original factory female spline, and carved out a relief to accommodate the sprocket with a dremmel and cutoff wheel. This ended up being ideal because it allows a small amount of radial, axial, and orbital play, and thus greatly reduced vibrations that were beating everything up with my previous coupling attempts. One good hunk of red and tacky #2 grease in the relief also prevents corrosion and helps the parts to polish themselves to their own broken-in happy place.I mounted the hall effect throttle where the original twist grip had been for testing, but I have another set of throttle controls forward now. To avoid running another cable in the gunell, I used 3/8 stainless rod to make a linkage, and simply slaved it to the primary motor, an evinrude 140. The foot of the big motor does make some drag, but the my aluminum cabin cruiser can still maintain 4-5 mph with moderate wind and current.Oh, and the prop! Many moons ago, when this outboard was still 2 stroke, I was delighted to find that the old omc 9.9/15s were the smallest available pirhana propellers... they are a boon for expirimenters and tinkerers like us. They make a hub with 3 dovetails for this model, that allow the exchange of individual veins of the prop. They also offer the veins in a variety of pitches, so I took the 15" pitch veins out and swapped them for 5" veins (in its previous life the motor had pushed a Lowe 1256 v-hull at a fast clip, vastly different than moving at near hull speed with a 25 footer)
On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 5:53 PM, Colin Davis<colin.a.davis@gmail.com> wrote:Ditto on retrofitting an old Johnson with a BLDC...! Details here:Ryan is right - it's not a simple retrofit. And the propeller is all wrong for an electric motor. But I wasn't going for fast, just quiet.
On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 4:28 PM Ryan G via groups.io <ryanwestbrookcary1=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:I retrofitted an old Johnson 9.9hp with one of these:
Motor eléctrico sin escobillas DC Kit completo de 48 V 2000 W 4300 RPM motor de alta velocidad, con controlador de 33 A 15 Mosfet, pantalla de batería LCD de acelerador, scooters eléctricos, moto, motor de transmisión media, pieza de bricolaje
Motor eléctrico sin escobillas DC Kit completo de 48 V 2000 W 4300 RPM motor de alta velocidad, con controlador de 33 A 15 Mosfet, pantalla de batería LCD de acelerador, scooters eléctricos, moto, motor de transmisión media, pieza de bricolaje
Motor eléctrico sin escobillas DC Kit completo de 48 V 2000 W 4300 RPM motor de alta velocidad, con controlador de 33 A 15 Mosfet, pantalla de batería LCD de acelerador, scooters eléctricos, moto, motor de transmisión media, pieza de bricolaje
Far less expensive than any of golden motor's offerings, although it did require some thought and skill to marry the two into a workable platform.
On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 10:30 AM, cpcanoesailor via groups.io<cpcanoesailor=yahoo.ca@groups.io> wrote:Interesting project. Thanks for sharing.I use a Haswing Protruar 1.0 motor with an APC 11x6 tractor prop. I figured out that I could mount the control head backwards, so the prop is facing forwards. I added a spinner in front of the prop to minimize drag. The only noticeable drag now is from the vertical shaft. I typically run the motor at about 50% power, about 300W, giving 3-4 knots boat speed (multihull, some drag). I only notice cavitation if the water gets quite choppy.
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Wednesday, October 28, 2020
Re: [electricboats] Max amp in parallel?
Re: [electricboats] Max amp in parallel?
> On Oct 28, 2020, at 17:11, Ryan Sweet via groups.io <ryan=ryansweet.org@groups.io> wrote:
>
>
> I'm looking at battery options and I see a 48v 200ah battery with a max discharge of 60a. If 4 of this this battery is in 4p, at 800ah, will that also allow for increased max draw to the motor or will it still be 60a?
>
>
>
>
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Monday, October 26, 2020
Re: [electricboats] Quest for 2X Hull Speed
Colin - Nice looking build!
Ryan/Colin - I looked at those motors on Amazon, but I could not find the detailed performance data. Do you have any feedback on the continuous wattage rating and thermal issues? An efficiency performance curve would also be helpful. Perhaps there is more data in the manual (wishful thinking)?
Thanks,
Keith
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Re: [electricboats] Quest for 2X Hull Speed
I retrofitted an old Johnson 9.9hp with one of these:
Motor eléctrico sin escobillas DC Kit completo de 48 V 2000 W 4300 RPM motor de alta velocidad, con controlador de 33 A 15 Mosfet, pantalla de batería LCD de acelerador, scooters eléctricos, moto, motor de transmisión media, pieza de bricolaje
Motor eléctrico sin escobillas DC Kit completo de 48 V 2000 W 4300 RPM motor de alta velocidad, con controlador de 33 A 15 Mosfet, pantalla de batería LCD de acelerador, scooters eléctricos, moto, motor de transmisión media, pieza de bricolaje
Motor eléctrico sin escobillas DC Kit completo de 48 V 2000 W 4300 RPM motor de alta velocidad, con controlador de 33 A 15 Mosfet, pantalla de batería LCD de acelerador, scooters eléctricos, moto, motor de transmisión media, pieza de bricolaje
Far less expensive than any of golden motor's offerings, although it did require some thought and skill to marry the two into a workable platform.
On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 10:30 AM, cpcanoesailor via groups.io<cpcanoesailor=yahoo.ca@groups.io> wrote:Interesting project. Thanks for sharing.I use a Haswing Protruar 1.0 motor with an APC 11x6 tractor prop. I figured out that I could mount the control head backwards, so the prop is facing forwards. I added a spinner in front of the prop to minimize drag. The only noticeable drag now is from the vertical shaft. I typically run the motor at about 50% power, about 300W, giving 3-4 knots boat speed (multihull, some drag). I only notice cavitation if the water gets quite choppy.
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Re: [electricboats] Quest for 2X Hull Speed
Motor eléctrico sin escobillas DC Kit completo de 48 V 2000 W 4300 RPM motor de alta velocidad, con controlador de 33 A 15 Mosfet, pantalla de batería LCD de acelerador, scooters eléctricos, moto, motor de transmisión media, pieza de bricolaje
|
On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 10:30 AM, cpcanoesailor via groups.io<cpcanoesailor=yahoo.ca@groups.io> wrote:Interesting project. Thanks for sharing.I use a Haswing Protruar 1.0 motor with an APC 11x6 tractor prop. I figured out that I could mount the control head backwards, so the prop is facing forwards. I added a spinner in front of the prop to minimize drag. The only noticeable drag now is from the vertical shaft. I typically run the motor at about 50% power, about 300W, giving 3-4 knots boat speed (multihull, some drag). I only notice cavitation if the water gets quite choppy.
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Re: [electricboats] Quest for 2X Hull Speed
[electricboats] Motor + controller on offer
https://link.marktplaats.nl/m1610178091
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Sunday, October 25, 2020
Re: [electricboats] Quest for 2X Hull Speed
I also picked up a 4 year old Lehr 2.5hp outboard. I just figured out why it was cheap, the oil fill plug in the lower unit is stripped. It should not be too difficult to fix. I removed the engine assembly, and now I am working on a plan to retrofit an electric motor. Ampflow has some nice brushed DC motors, but the efficiency curve is very narrow at the top. I am concerned that my operating range may not be optimal. It seems the BLDC motors are more efficient and the efficient range of operation is much wider. I found the options to very limited given the 1,000 to 1,500 watt requirement. Many of the motors do not have detailed performance specifications, and others seem to be very inefficient for that power range. Perhaps the best option is the 1,500 watt Golden Motor BLDC-108. If anyone has other ideas/options, I am interested. I am also concerned that there will be a significant efficiency loss with the 7.25x6 (options up to 7.25x8) propeller, and there is not sufficient clearance below the cavitation plate to increase the diameter. Increment two might be a custom build of the lower unit with Epropulsion propeller above...
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Re: [electricboats] Quest for 2X Hull Speed
Baseline - The boat runs at about 5 mph with the NV86, which is just slightly faster than my Minn Kota 30. The NV86 runs a little over 700 watts typically, and it is rated for 1,142 watts (24 volts x 48 amps).
Air Plane Pusher Propeller (15x7) - In speed 1, it runs about 0.75 mph faster. In speeds 2 through 5, it does not go any faster and the whole lower unit has a resonant wobble and probably cavitation. I gave up on that idea.
Epropulsion Propeller (10.2x6.73) - Of course the big issue for trolling motor is the lack of higher pitch LH propellers. I tore apart the NV86 to determine if the commutator is advanced, and if I could change the setting to optimize the motor for reverse. I found the brushes, brush holder, magnets, and coils were all aligned. The exception is the commutator is advanced 11 degrees from the coils. So I built a steel ring to rotate the magnet assembly by 22 degrees counterclockwise (return to 0 degrees and advance 11 degrees in the reverse direction. The boat reached 7 mph right at 1,000 watts, all the while the propeller was cavitating, there was a rooster tail, and water was spraying in all directions (trolling motors are not hydrodynamically shaped). At zero load in the OEM configuration, the motor turns at 1,930 RPM at 1.4 amps in both directions. With the 22 degree rotation of the magnets, the motor performs about the same in reverse, but in forward it runs over 250 RPM faster. That makes me question if the OEM commutator configuration is aligned to the neutral axis. I do not have a good way to test. I restored the magnets to the OEM configuration and added a cavitation plate and a fairing for the propeller hub and motor shaft. I am waiting for good weather to test.
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Re: [electricboats] Quest for 2X Hull Speed
Air Plane Pusher Propeller (15x7) - In speed 1, it runs about 0.75 mph faster. In speeds 2 through 5, it does not go any faster and the whole lower unit has a resonant wobble and probably cavitation. I gave up on that idea.
Epropulsion Propeller (10.2x6.73) - Of course the big issue for trolling motor is the lack of higher pitch LH propellers. I tore apart the NV86 to determine if the commutator is advanced, and if I could change the setting to optimize the motor for reverse. I found the brushes, brush holder, magnets, and coils were all aligned. The exception is the commutator is advanced 11 degrees from the coils. So I built a steel ring to rotate the magnet assembly by 22 degrees counterclockwise (return to 0 degrees and advance 11 degrees in the reverse direction. The boat reached 7 mph right at 1,000 watts, all the while the propeller was cavitating, there was a rooster tail, and water was spraying in all directions (trolling motors are not hydrodynamically shaped). At zero load in the OEM configuration, the motor turns at 1,930 RPM at 1.4 amps in both directions. With the 22 degree rotation of the magnets, the motor performs about the same in reverse, but in forward it runs over 250 RPM faster. That makes me question if the OEM commutator configuration is aligned to the neutral axis. I do not have a good way to test. I restored the magnets to the OEM configuration and added a cavitation plate and a fairing for the propeller hub and motor shaft. I am waiting for good weather to test.
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[electricboats] Quest for 2X Hull Speed
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Saturday, October 24, 2020
Re: [electricboats] Electric Yacht QuietTorque Motor Mount on Stringers
The motor compartment seems unusual as the original stringers suggest the original engine was significantly further aft. Is this a new custom build? The extension seem inadequate but hard to tell form the picture. A ruler in the picture would be helpful.
My suggestions:
- give us a view of the shaft and propeller as the shaft may have been moved to a position too far forward. Might be a new shaft and it is too long. If it the original shaft, you can also check the shaft for ware indication at the packing gland and see if the shaft was originally in a different position.
- Building extended stringers on the same plane and making them the same dimensions would be the next step if the motor must be placed in that position. Make sure that there is room between the stringers as they do seem a bit narrow but hard to tell without a ruler measurements.
You can contact us for motor detail and installation instructions through the website or by email mike@electricyacht.com
Thanks,
Mike
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Friday, October 23, 2020
[electricboats] Electric Yacht QuietTorque Motor Mount on Stringers
I am preparing to mount an ElectricYacht 10KW QuietTorque motor. The original motor mounts are two parallel 2x4s in the engine compartment.
The stringers are going to be fiberglassed and painted.
https://imgur.com/gallery/T5RNtvR
(Fiberglass work partially done by previous owner, more to be done before motor is mounted)
We are going to relocate this boat from Seattle to Everett Washington and then put it up on the hard and do a refit. So the installation basically has to survive a couple of test runs on Lake Union, and one passage from Seattle to Everett. We'll do it as weather permits and try to avoid any risk of storms or high winds.
In the refit I intend to remove the existing motor mounts and replace with something designed for the long term.
Question: Can we use lag screws to secure the motor to the existing wood stringers, or should I drill through the entire stringer and use a bolt with a nut?
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Re: [electricboats] latest inboard day sailor up date
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Thursday, October 22, 2020
Re: [electricboats] latest inboard day sailor up date
Couldn't you just take the controller out of the toolbox altogether? It isn't really something you need to take home to service often if ever. See how I mounted my controller in a 27 ft sloop, Mounted with simple standoffs with the additional heatsink vanes up/down.
Then you don't need the fan which uses power.
Either way have fun with your project.
Best regards.
Lee Chrystal
Marsh Specialty HVAC LTD
Box 5061 STN Main
Leduc Alberta T9E-6L5
Cell: (780) 975-6801
From: electricboats@groups.io <electricboats@groups.io> On Behalf Of Phil Costello
Sent: October 22, 2020 4:29 PM
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: Re: [electricboats] latest inboard day sailor up date
Lee thanks I think I'm going to do what you suggested with a proper box and a vent or even a fan
On Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 5:37 PM Lee Chrystal <lee@marshspecialtyhvac.com> wrote:
Looks good Phil,
Just ensure the controller is not going to overheat closed up in the tool box as I know you need to keep it as cool as possible.
You could add a better heatsink but the controller should probably be in some airflow with the vanes up/down as heat rises and you don't want to trap heat below the controller.
Cheers,
Lee.
From: electricboats@groups.io <electricboats@groups.io> On Behalf Of Phil Costello
Sent: October 22, 2020 3:01 PM
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: Re: [electricboats] latest inboard day sailor up date
Re: [electricboats] latest inboard day sailor up date
Looks good Phil,
Just ensure the controller is not going to overheat closed up in the tool box as I know you need to keep it as cool as possible.
You could add a better heatsink but the controller should probably be in some airflow with the vanes up/down as heat rises and you don't want to trap heat below the controller.
Cheers,
Lee.
From: electricboats@groups.io <electricboats@groups.io> On Behalf Of Phil Costello
Sent: October 22, 2020 3:01 PM
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: Re: [electricboats] latest inboard day sailor up date
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Re: [electricboats] latest inboard day sailor up date
Looks good Phil,
Just ensure the controller is not going to overheat closed up in the tool box as I know you need to keep it as cool as possible.
You could add a better heatsink but the controller should probably be in some airflow with the vanes up/down as heat rises and you don't want to trap heat below the controller.
Cheers,
Lee.
From: electricboats@groups.io <electricboats@groups.io> On Behalf Of Phil Costello
Sent: October 22, 2020 3:01 PM
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: Re: [electricboats] latest inboard day sailor up date
Re: [electricboats] latest inboard day sailor up date
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Wednesday, October 21, 2020
Re: [electricboats] Trolling Motor Propellers
Ken, I’m amazed with your solar array! At slow speeds, even a 200W solar panel generating 150w could help me a lot with range.
I suppose a trolling motor with an alternative controller, driving it to say 1800 rpms, would probably end with a burnt up motor.
Bill
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Re: [electricboats] Trolling Motor Propellers
I fixed the starboard motor straight with the shaft thumb clamp, and steered with the port motor (shaft thumb clamped loosened) with an extension paint pole (Push-Pull) tiller tied into a triangular steering bracket.
https://www.4primal.com/shopprimal/v-force-steering-bracket
Worked great at the speeds we were traveling with the boat (Less than 5 mph)
Worked OK, again, never plaining out, just scooting along at displacement speeds or slower.
wdr99, I built the skegs as drawn except I made them solid. I have more directional stability than needed. I wanted to be able to let the weight of the boat rest on the skegs. That idea of independent turning axes for the motors is interesting. I think it's that kind of flexability that allows new twin OB to "sidestep". Try it. Mine are linked for steering but are indipendent throttled. I usually steer with the throttles.Glenn-----------------------------------------
From: "wdr99 via groups.io"
To: electricboats@groups.io
Cc:
Sent: Wednesday October 21 2020 1:09:49PM
Subject: Re: [electricboats] Trolling Motor Propellers
I like your trap door Honda. That's clever.
I'm considering mounting the trolling motors on a rudder. I'm curious if the additional directional imperative of a rudder would help out at all. I'm also curious if there'd be any value to having both motors on a single axis. Who knows, there might be a name for this, I'm not an engineer.
Glenn, what kind of keel or skeg did you install on your redwing? I installed a roughly 3 inch tall keel the length of the hull and I skipped the aft skegs. It turns nicely with the outboard, maybe a bit slow to respond, but I don't have alot to compare it to.
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Re: [electricboats] Trolling Motor Propellers
-----------------------------------------
From: "wdr99 via groups.io"To: electricboats@groups.io
Cc:
Sent: Wednesday October 21 2020 1:09:49PM
Subject: Re: [electricboats] Trolling Motor Propellers
I like your trap door Honda. That's clever.
I'm considering mounting the trolling motors on a rudder. I'm curious if the additional directional imperative of a rudder would help out at all. I'm also curious if there'd be any value to having both motors on a single axis. Who knows, there might be a name for this, I'm not an engineer.
Glenn, what kind of keel or skeg did you install on your redwing? I installed a roughly 3 inch tall keel the length of the hull and I skipped the aft skegs. It turns nicely with the outboard, maybe a bit slow to respond, but I don't have alot to compare it to.