Friday, March 31, 2017

RE: [Electric Boats] Re: Upgrading to 3 phase from 180 dc 3hp Leeson with Kb controller

 

Dan-

With a sailboat, brushless is probably the way to go for you, or not…

As for my boat, the overview: www.evalbum.com/492

Mine also is 26ft, probably about 4000# overall, maybe closer to 4500, flat-bottom scow-shaped, epoxy over plywood construction.  Boat was built by author and occasional small boat builder Sam McKinney in the late 1980's and named after his book "The Reach Of Tide --- a Columbia River History".  I converted the 2-stroke outboard to electric in 2003 (initially used 6HP AC4001 series-wound, 60# brush motor, switched to 20# permag ETEK within 3 months).  I powered it all with golf cart batteries for probably 12 years, then have gradually built up an array of 10  THINK/Enerdel lithium batteries ( Each battery: 2P(12S(2P)) or 70ah @ 31-48v --- configurable as 35ah @ 62-96v).

-Myles

 

 

 

 

From: electricboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:electricboats@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2017 3:29 PM
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Electric Boats] Re: Upgrading to 3 phase from 180 dc 3hp Leeson with Kb controller

 

 

Myles, I am in the process of installing a unit in my sailboat was going to go brushless. Could you give me some more information on your setup. I'm at 5000# and 26'.

 

Dan

 

 

We're living at a good time for options as regards repowering a boat to electric…I've been running mine now with a 48v ETEK brush motor and an ALLTRAX AXE4834 controller (e.g. this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-AXE4834-Alltrax-Motor-Controller-AXE-4834-300-Amp-/272198962683?hash=item3f60528dfb:g:F1YAAMXQAF5RgOWw ) since 2003 without any hitches.

I'd love to switch to one of the other options, but there's little incentive for me J.

 

 

From: electricboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:electricboats@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 6:02 PM
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Upgrading to 3 phase from 180 dc 3hp Leeson with Kb controller

 

 

Hey there,

I am using Curtis 1268-5501 controllers in my twin driven tug under construction.  They are a bit pricy, in the $700-1200 range.  I bought a pair of fried ones and had FSIP rebuild them, good as new.  It cost me about half of the new or eBay price.  I even have a couple spares.  Might consider selling one.  I have about $375-400 in them.  I know there are a lot of controllers out there, Kelly, Chinese, Curtis, whatever...  I am pleased with the Curtis.  And the 1268 is good for regen in your case.  Hardy unit, and turnaround is usually less than two weeks in a worst case.  FSIP is great to work with too.  I haven't had a chance to test my boat in water yet, so I can only tell you what I have seen.  FYI, about 75% of the NEVs and golf cars use Curtis in my estimation.  That is my 2-bits.  It is worth just what you paid for it...

Dan

 

 

From: orest@albernicharters.com [electricboats]

Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 11:01 PM

Subject: [Electric Boats] Re: Upgrading to 3 phase from 180 dc 3hp Leeson with Kb controller

 

 

Huge advantage: HPEV  AC-9 3 phase would regenerate my 48 volt bank while under the big diesel. This doesn't apply to most folks here because sailors wouldn't have a dig diesel and an electric motor. 

  Curtis controler choices between 450  and 600 amps? My requirements aren't that great 2.8 knots into a bit of wave may only take under 1.5 - 1.7 KW touching 2KW occasionally. Will I kick myself for not getting a bigger motor?  I'll be using it all day and intend to get an automatic cooling fan.  Then there are the oil cooled systems ????  

 

Is the holy grail in here somewhere?

 

 

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Posted by: "Myles Twete" <matwete@comcast.net>
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RE: [Electric Boats] New Classic Edwardian Launches

 

Website?

 

From: electricboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:electricboats@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 1:55 AM
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Electric Boats] New Classic Edwardian Launches

 

 

Hi All,

 

I have just joined this group from the UK to keep up to date with the status quo. 

 

We build a range of classic British electric boats which are Edwardian in style.

 

If anyone has any question please feel free to get in touch any time.

 

Kind regards

 

Rob

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Posted by: "Myles Twete" <matwete@comcast.net>
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[Electric Boats] Re: Reduction Ratio, Maybe Not Always as Critical as Many Folks Think.

 

Cal,

If direct drive. Not sure what your Kv is but a low loaded rpm/volt and therefore higher torque/amp works best, keeping shaft rpm down, providing you have the voltage you need for the max power you need. You may find a 24 or 36 V battery might be enough for your boat with increased Ah, if you happy about series/parallel, for better peukert. As I'm sure you are aware due to copper losses you will likely have to go smaller on prop diameter and/or less pitch to keep those Amps down. Typically as you may recall I use 1,000 Watts for cruise at 4 knots and up to 1600 'continuous'. 1600 for me is about 20V/80 Amps at motor/controller and so around 65 at battery, which is fine with my 200 Ah Lithiums. Peak shorter term power for my 3.5 ton/26ft boat is around 2.3kW at the battery. Being as I chose to minimise batteries, my Lithiums at 25.6V nominal and 200 Ah give me 5.22kWh stored x 80% so 4kWh useable and therefore 16 miles range or a little more if say 3.5 knots.

I know there are those on the list that advocate more power for 'situations' but my view is minimising batteries keeps costs down, and it's a sailing boat with an auxiliary motor and I'm happy to sail that way.

John

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Thursday, March 30, 2017

[Electric Boats] Reduction Ratio, Maybe Not Always as Critical as Many Folks Think.

 

CAL 2-27, 4'5" draft or thereabouts, 7600lbs. 48v bank of golf cart batteries, Kelly sine wave controller. I was running a ME01014201 5kw motor through a Baldor 2:1 reduction gear. I just swapped it out for a 3:1 gearbox, figuring that the 14" 3 blade prop called for a higher ratio.

Net result, meh. Slightly lower top speed, but slightly better performance than before, in the upper range. Slightly lower performance (rpm/watts) at the lower end. Same results with both the 5kw motor, and my ME0913 motor rated at 10 or 12kw, depending on who is doing the talking. I had thought that a 50% change in reduction ratio would have a more profound effect than that. The moral is of course don't lose any sleep agonizing and calculating over the appropriate reduction ratio to the second decimal for the type of e-drive installation common to this group.

So having seen basically no difference between 2:1 and 3:1 except that at low speed (where I mostly operate)  the 2:1 works a little better. I am now seriously considering trying direct drive through a thrust bearing in the near future. I can always change it back.

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Re: [Electric Boats] The plan

 

Yes



Sent from my Bell Samsung device over Canada's largest network.


-------- Original message --------
From: "cpcanoesailor@yahoo.ca [electricboats]" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 2017-03-30 10:48 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] The plan

 

> kipawa prop ... only improves speed very marginally
Is this on your Hobie TI? It's probably a similar situation to my proa.

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Posted by: 63urban <63urban@gmail.com>
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Re: [Electric Boats] The plan

 

> kipawa prop ... only improves speed very marginally
Is this on your Hobie TI? It's probably a similar situation to my proa.

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Posted by: cpcanoesailor@yahoo.ca
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Re: [Electric Boats] The plan

 

I have the kipawa prop have not done a statistical comparison  but it only improves speed very marginally.   It give a lot better control and low end thrust though.

Nick



Sent from my Bell Samsung device over Canada's largest network.


-------- Original message --------
From: "'Jason (Electric Boats) Taylor' jt.yahoo@jtaylor.ca [electricboats]" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 2017-03-30 8:09 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] The plan

 

Maybe look into an electric vehicle battery pack. I hear the Chevy volt uses groups of 48v packs. Buy one from a scrapyard and arrange it in the voltage you require. 

You'll need a better prop than the trolling motors can give you. Kipawa makes speed-focused trolling motor props which have a higher pitch and allow for faster speeds.  Also, consider that most trolling motors are not designed for continuous submersion. Keeping the motor out of the water will contribute to system longevity. 

Instead of trolling motors, I would rather consider an electric outboard or gas outboard conversion based on a 2-4hp two stroke or other small donor outboard. 

A 1-ton boat will require at least around a 2hp motor. 
Let's assume a 1kw motor to drive it. 
At 12v, that's 83A of current for 1kw power. 
At 48V, it's only 21A. 
A 20' cable run (10' there and 10' back) will only require 10awg wire for 1% voltage drop. Much cheaper and lighter than the 4awg that running at 12V would need and it gives you more flexibility of where to place components.

I suggest you come up with a list of requirements for your propulsion system.
- Your expectations of range
- what a typical outing looks like when everything goes well -- how far, how long?
- how bad can conditions get on the waterways you plan to use this? Wave height, winds, currents
- how close do you have to stick to time constraints? Example: have to be back by late afternoon in order to get the boat back on the trailer and be on the road before nightfall. 
- budget. What does an appropriate gas outboard repower cost? New and used. 
- how much tinkering are you willing to do to build and install
- how aware of the system do you want to be while out enjoying your boat?

/Jason

--
Jason Taylor
v:514-815-8204

On Mar 28, 2017, at 10:01, 2vfvzwoxexqg3ileeagcjlt2apwqwsqrp2evhgvv@yahoo.com [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Good morning folks.

I have an 18' trailerable Hobo houseboat that needs a new power train.

For many reasons, I think electric is the best way to go...the biggest reason no doubt influenced in large part due to my own personal strength limitations after suffering a stroke in the last couple of years.

Trolling motors are not very heavy and Lithium batteries weigh much less than your standard lead acid ones.

The plan is to locate a used 12v trolling motor with the "best thrust for the buck"
and power it with a Lithium battery pack used for e bikes and mobility devices.
These battery packs are often available in voltages more than 12v (36, 48 etc.)

Can a 12v motor be hooked up directly to a higher voltage battery without modifications? Benefits of better efficiency at using higher voltage regarding speed and range?

So is this doable and what should I expect to see happen? Tips?

My boat weighs under 2,00 0lbs and I have lost the need for speed I had in my youth.

Regards,
Doug
   


__._,_.___
Posted by: 63urban <63urban@gmail.com>
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Posted by at No comments:

Re: [Electric Boats] The plan

 

Maybe look into an electric vehicle battery pack. I hear the Chevy volt uses groups of 48v packs. Buy one from a scrapyard and arrange it in the voltage you require. 

You'll need a better prop than the trolling motors can give you. Kipawa makes speed-focused trolling motor props which have a higher pitch and allow for faster speeds.  Also, consider that most trolling motors are not designed for continuous submersion. Keeping the motor out of the water will contribute to system longevity. 

Instead of trolling motors, I would rather consider an electric outboard or gas outboard conversion based on a 2-4hp two stroke or other small donor outboard. 

A 1-ton boat will require at least around a 2hp motor. 
Let's assume a 1kw motor to drive it. 
At 12v, that's 83A of current for 1kw power. 
At 48V, it's only 21A. 
A 20' cable run (10' there and 10' back) will only require 10awg wire for 1% voltage drop. Much cheaper and lighter than the 4awg that running at 12V would need and it gives you more flexibility of where to place components.

I suggest you come up with a list of requirements for your propulsion system.
- Your expectations of range
- what a typical outing looks like when everything goes well -- how far, how long?
- how bad can conditions get on the waterways you plan to use this? Wave height, winds, currents
- how close do you have to stick to time constraints? Example: have to be back by late afternoon in order to get the boat back on the trailer and be on the road before nightfall. 
- budget. What does an appropriate gas outboard repower cost? New and used. 
- how much tinkering are you willing to do to build and install
- how aware of the system do you want to be while out enjoying your boat?

/Jason

--
Jason Taylor
v:514-815-8204

On Mar 28, 2017, at 10:01, 2vfvzwoxexqg3ileeagcjlt2apwqwsqrp2evhgvv@yahoo.com [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Good morning folks.

I have an 18' trailerable Hobo houseboat that needs a new power train.

For many reasons, I think electric is the best way to go...the biggest reason no doubt influenced in large part due to my own personal strength limitations after suffering a stroke in the last couple of years.

Trolling motors are not very heavy and Lithium batteries weigh much less than your standard lead acid ones.

The plan is to locate a used 12v trolling motor with the "best thrust for the buck"
and power it with a Lithium battery pack used for e bikes and mobility devices.
These battery packs are often available in voltages more than 12v (36, 48 etc.)

Can a 12v motor be hooked up directly to a higher voltage battery without modifications? Benefits of better efficiency at using higher voltage regarding speed and range?

So is this doable and what should I expect to see happen? Tips?

My boat weighs under 2,00 0lbs and I have lost the need for speed I had in my youth.

Regards,
Doug
   


__._,_.___
Posted by: "Jason (Electric Boats) Taylor" <jt.yahoo@jtaylor.ca>
Reply via web post • Reply to sender • Reply to group • Start a New Topic • Messages in this topic (7)
Have you tried the highest rated email app?
With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage.

.

__,_._,___
Posted by at No comments:

[Electric Boats] New Classic Edwardian Launches

 

Hi All,


I have just joined this group from the UK to keep up to date with the status quo. 


We build a range of classic British electric boats which are Edwardian in style.


If anyone has any question please feel free to get in touch any time.


Kind regards


Rob

__._,_.___
Posted by: rspelman2003@yahoo.co.uk
Reply via web post • Reply to sender • Reply to group • Start a New Topic • Messages in this topic (1)
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Wednesday, March 29, 2017

RE: [Electric Boats] Re: Upgrading to 3 phase from 180 dc 3hp Leeson with Kb controller

 

Myles, I am in the process of installing a unit in my sailboat was going to go brushless. Could you give me some more information on your setup. I'm at 5000# and 26'.


Dan


 

We're living at a good time for options as regards repowering a boat to electric…I've been running mine now with a 48v ETEK brush motor and an ALLTRAX AXE4834 controller (e.g. this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-AXE4834-Alltrax-Motor-Controller-AXE-4834-300-Amp-/272198962683?hash=item3f60528dfb:g:F1YAAMXQAF5RgOWw ) since 2003 without any hitches.

I'd love to switch to one of the other options, but there's little incentive for me J.

 

 

From: electricboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:electricboats@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 6:02 PM
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Upgrading to 3 phase from 180 dc 3hp Leeson with Kb controller

 

 

Hey there,

I am using Curtis 1268-5501 controllers in my twin driven tug under construction.  They are a bit pricy, in the $700-1200 range.  I bought a pair of fried ones and had FSIP rebuild them, good as new.  It cost me about half of the new or eBay price.  I even have a couple spares.  Might consider selling one.  I have about $375-400 in them.  I know there are a lot of controllers out there, Kelly, Chinese, Curtis, whatever...  I am pleased with the Curtis.  And the 1268 is good for regen in your case.  Hardy unit, and turnaround is usually less than two weeks in a worst case.  FSIP is great to work with too.  I haven't had a chance to test my boat in water yet, so I can only tell you what I have seen.  FYI, about 75% of the NEVs and golf cars use Curtis in my estimation.  That is my 2-bits.  It is worth just what you paid for it...

Dan

 

 

From: orest@albernicharters.com [electricboats]

Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 11:01 PM

Subject: [Electric Boats] Re: Upgrading to 3 phase from 180 dc 3hp Leeson with Kb controller

 

 

Huge advantage: HPEV  AC-9 3 phase would regenerate my 48 volt bank while under the big diesel. This doesn't apply to most folks here because sailors wouldn't have a dig diesel and an electric motor. 

  Curtis controler choices between 450  and 600 amps? My requirements aren't that great 2.8 knots into a bit of wave may only take under 1.5 - 1.7 KW touching 2KW occasionally. Will I kick myself for not getting a bigger motor?  I'll be using it all day and intend to get an automatic cooling fan.  Then there are the oil cooled systems ????  

 

Is the holy grail in here somewhere?

 

 

__._,_.___
Posted by: Daniel Michaels <nov32394@yahoo.com>
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Have you tried the highest rated email app?
With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage.

.

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