Sunday, May 31, 2015

[Electric Boats] Re: High Voltage in a canoe

 

I am interested to see how your canoe works out. I wanted to run a Torqeedo but the cost and amp draw scared me away. I ran into the same issues of electrical in a canoe and sealed every thing up tight and have had no problems. I have manage to build it up to a 600 watt solar powered system and its now 100 percent solar powered even on cloudy days.

I will watch this post and see how your works out because I am always looking for new ideas.  As I have experimented I have even hooked up my Honda 200i 12 volt outlet to my deep cycle batteries and with just a idle it hit close to 10 MPH and at a idle a gallon of gas would last 9-10 hours with a little min kota 45 thrust.

Here is my little website if you interested. You might find some cool ideas there.  Serenity Solar Canoe

 

Tommy


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Re: [Electric Boats] Need source for 48v. panel controller and panels-- my next step !

 

I think I will look more closely at cruise amps power needed.  If I can get lower draw, then less amps from the panels and less cost.  The area required is maybe more than I'm willing to have as a sun cover, my boat is not going to look like a barge.  At 6.5 ft. wide I can do maybe 8 ft. long max. would like to be smaller than that.  Flex panels look like what I need all right, and one supplier will sell them for the same as framed panels as they make both for other vehicles.   My cost is about $ 650. plus shipping, for 48 volt, and close to 2 amps, but I will look again to sure.  They are willing to make flex panels to fit my roof design, fasteners that allow maintenance, and secure through roof connections with the controller.
 
I'm assuming I would use 4 to 5 knot cruise power a few hours during the day, with plenty of charge time between uses.  Fast travel, not so much !!  On a week end, I might do 6 -- 10 hours total day use, at a Coots event.  I can almost do that on one charge, but would like extra returning to the battery without a generator.  I found a gen. set that will do a job, but 15 amps charge means that I have to listen to it run during down time.  Not any fun, plus it could be stolen easier.  At most shows, or rental docks I can plug in my 15 amp one,  or two 12v. car type chargers with the bank split, anytime I'm at the dock -- for free.   Dock power is the best, and so this solar array is mainly to cut the last cord at smaller lakes.
 
Thanks Myles, I will keep in touch on this, yours are the first figures that I can use as a comparison.  Best Wishes,  Cal
 
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2015 11:22 AM
Subject: RE: [Electric Boats] Need source for 48v. panel controller and panels-- my next step !
 
 

Hey Cal-

Good to hear you haven't given up on e-boating. J

For 40amps and 48v, you're looking at about 2kw.

To get the most power per area and to keep things light, you'd want to not skimp on your panels---ie. don't buy 10-12% efficient, $1/watt panels that are framed and heavy.

Rather, you'd want to invest in the 20% efficient, unhoused SunPower flexible arrays which run about $2/watt and available any day, online and on ebay.  For $4k, you can get your 2kw.

For 2kw, at 20% efficiency, you need at least 10sq-meters of solar cells.

And practically, at our latitude, you'd still not get 2kw, but let's say this did tell the whole story.

You'd need a bimini area approx. 6.5ft x 16ft to get your 2kw.  Do you have that much roof space?  How about half of that?

Here's a 135watt Sunpower panel:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Semi-Flexible-135-Watt-Solar-Panel-High-Efficiency-Sunpower-Marine-Rated-/141262084821?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20e3e05ad5

Pick up 16 of those and for less than $5k you're cooking with solar.

How deep are your pockets?

-Myles

From: electricboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:electricboats@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, May 25, 2015 9:56 PM
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Electric Boats] Need source for 48v. panel controller and panels-- my next step !

 

Now that the outboard is done, battery bank hooked up and all works great, I need to look at extending the run time.  Not liking using a generator, so perhaps panels would do that ??  I was thinking of one 48 volt controller, and maybe four decent sized panels on a " Bimini " type top.  I have one top now, but could build anything to fit the panel size. if I could get 40 amps, that would be continuous power at cruise speed.  That might be asking a lot at 48 volts, so maybe half of that would work ??  Batteries are now marine deep cycle lead acids.

What have others done with a reliable controller would be a good start.  Maybe a brand to look for, or a place that could supply a system of panels and controller would also be helpful.  I have done biz in China, so maybe there is a tested system some one has used ??  Flexible panels preferable for an arched top, but I could be tempted to build a flat top with stiff panels, as flat ones are mostly cheaper, higher output.  Need the panels here first, to fit on any top design correctly.

Thanks, I would welcome any ideas on products to buy ----------  Cal 

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Re: [Electric Boats] TPPL batteries

 

I've been looking at the NorthStar SMS-AGM-400  and the Oddysey PC1800FT.

I don't know much about battery construction, but is it unusual that two batteries of the same type, with virtually the same dimensions and weight would very greatly in amp hours. The NorthStar claims 185ah and the Oddysey claims 214ah. 
Thanks
Bob

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Re: [Electric Boats] High Voltage in a canoe

 

The 1003 is made to charge underway via a solar panels.   There is no way the motor could tell the differance between a solar panel and a battery.  
The only thing to look out for is that if you took a battery to the cut off voltage limit of 9.5v  I doubt you would get a lot of cycles out of it before it died.  





On May 31, 2015, at 9:15 AM, Adam Horvath su64aanm@yahoo.com [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


Hi 
i have a question to volks? From manul 1003 copied:
English
"7.4.3 Charging the batteries from the on-board batteries
It is possible to charge the battery from any DC voltage source 
within a range of 9.5V ... 50V. The required minimum current is 4A.
Forchargingplease use a wire cross-section of at least 0.5 mmxmm. 
The dimensions of the required barrel connector are 5.5/2.5 mm. 
For example, it is a good idea to use the 12-V battery charger lead
made by Torqeedo. Pay attention to the polarity - see diagram."

From this  coming:  DC voltage, that means it can be use an  battery without inverter and loader. It is all right?

Gina



On Sunday, May 31, 2015 4:22 AM, "thall90024@yahoo.com [electricboats]" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
I have a Torqeedo 1003 travel electric motor that I use on a Precision sailboat and a flat back canoe , a spare lithium ion battery cost $699, I have a couple of long trips planned with the canoe and am suffering from " range anxiety" . Torqeedo recently approved charging the battery while underway with a "house battery",
I have a AGM optima bluetop battery with a Samlex 150 watt pure sine wave inverter to run the Torqeedo fast 80 watt charger, I ordered a Heavy duty, in-line fuseholder for ATC/ATO type fuses. 10 gauge wire for up to 30 amp rating. My question is am I in danger of being electrocuted by running 110 power in a canoe with maybe a little water on the floor?





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Re: [Electric Boats] TPPL batteries

 

Hi Bob,

We use the Northstar TPPL batteries for all of our Thoosa systems that use AGM. The TPPL allows for the higher amperage demand from an electric propulsion bank and also is able to recharge faster. They can be discharged down to 20%, and the new Blue+ Northstars (still make sure you get the TPPL) have the ability to go longer without a charge and not sulfate. 

I'm not familiar with the charger you are using, but it is most likely okay as long as it can be set for AGM. A lot of chargers have the ability to be set for the type of battery being charged. For basic installations we have found the ProMariner Quad to be very good since it charges each battery in a 48v bank individually. If you want faster charging though, look at the Victron chargers. 

Sally Reuther, CEO
Annapolis Hybrid Marine

On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 12:16 PM, mordust@yahoo.com [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I am converting my Ericson 27 to electric propulsion and have run into a battery delivery snag. I am going with ElectricYacht's QuietTorque 10, Mastervolt Slim Line 200 ah batteries, and a Quick Charge 25 ah select a charge battery charger. I have just about completed building and mounting battery boxes for  Mastervolt Slim Line batteries. All of a Mastervolt cannot deliver the batteries until late July, or about half of my Lake Erie boating season. It has been suggested I look into North Star or Oddysey TPPL ( thin pure plate lead) batteries. Supposedly a somewhat new and improved version of AGM. They are virtually of the same dimensions as the slim lines. 


Anybody have any knowledge or experience with these batteries. How about charging issues with this combination, or do I need to look for a different charger?


Any help or info is greatly appreciated since sailing season is not waiting for me. 


Thanks


Bob




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Posted by: Sally Reuther <smreuther@gmail.com>
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RE: [Electric Boats] Need source for 48v. panel controller and panels-- my next step !

 

Hey Cal-

 

Good to hear you haven't given up on e-boating. J

 

For 40amps and 48v, you're looking at about 2kw.

To get the most power per area and to keep things light, you'd want to not skimp on your panels---ie. don't buy 10-12% efficient, $1/watt panels that are framed and heavy.

Rather, you'd want to invest in the 20% efficient, unhoused SunPower flexible arrays which run about $2/watt and available any day, online and on ebay.  For $4k, you can get your 2kw.

 

For 2kw, at 20% efficiency, you need at least 10sq-meters of solar cells.

And practically, at our latitude, you'd still not get 2kw, but let's say this did tell the whole story.

You'd need a bimini area approx. 6.5ft x 16ft to get your 2kw.  Do you have that much roof space?  How about half of that?

Here's a 135watt Sunpower panel:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Semi-Flexible-135-Watt-Solar-Panel-High-Efficiency-Sunpower-Marine-Rated-/141262084821?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20e3e05ad5

Pick up 16 of those and for less than $5k you're cooking with solar.

 

How deep are your pockets?

 

-Myles

 

From: electricboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:electricboats@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, May 25, 2015 9:56 PM
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Electric Boats] Need source for 48v. panel controller and panels-- my next step !

 

 

Now that the outboard is done, battery bank hooked up and all works great, I need to look at extending the run time.  Not liking using a generator, so perhaps panels would do that ??  I was thinking of one 48 volt controller, and maybe four decent sized panels on a " Bimini " type top.  I have one top now, but could build anything to fit the panel size. if I could get 40 amps, that would be continuous power at cruise speed.  That might be asking a lot at 48 volts, so maybe half of that would work ??  Batteries are now marine deep cycle lead acids.

 

What have others done with a reliable controller would be a good start.  Maybe a brand to look for, or a place that could supply a system of panels and controller would also be helpful.  I have done biz in China, so maybe there is a tested system some one has used ??  Flexible panels preferable for an arched top, but I could be tempted to build a flat top with stiff panels, as flat ones are mostly cheaper, higher output.  Need the panels here first, to fit on any top design correctly.

 

Thanks, I would welcome any ideas on products to buy ----------  Cal 

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Posted by: "Myles Twete" <matwete@comcast.net>
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[Electric Boats] TPPL batteries

 

I am converting my Ericson 27 to electric propulsion and have run into a battery delivery snag. I am going with ElectricYacht's QuietTorque 10, Mastervolt Slim Line 200 ah batteries, and a Quick Charge 25 ah select a charge battery charger. I have just about completed building and mounting battery boxes for  Mastervolt Slim Line batteries. All of a Mastervolt cannot deliver the batteries until late July, or about half of my Lake Erie boating season. It has been suggested I look into North Star or Oddysey TPPL ( thin pure plate lead) batteries. Supposedly a somewhat new and improved version of AGM. They are virtually of the same dimensions as the slim lines. 


Anybody have any knowledge or experience with these batteries. How about charging issues with this combination, or do I need to look for a different charger?


Any help or info is greatly appreciated since sailing season is not waiting for me. 


Thanks


Bob



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Re: [Electric Boats] High Voltage in a canoe

 

Hi
i have a question to volks? From manul 1003 copied:
English
"7.4.3 Charging the batteries from the on-board batteries
It is possible to charge the battery from any DC voltage source
within a range of 9.5V ... 50V. The required minimum current is 4A.
Forchargingplease use a wire cross-section of at least 0.5 mmxmm.
The dimensions of the required barrel connector are 5.5/2.5 mm.
For example, it is a good idea to use the 12-V battery charger lead
made by Torqeedo. Pay attention to the polarity - see diagram."

From this  coming:  DC voltage, that means it can be use an  battery without inverter and loader. It is all right?

Gina



On Sunday, May 31, 2015 4:22 AM, "thall90024@yahoo.com [electricboats]" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
I have a Torqeedo 1003 travel electric motor that I use on a Precision sailboat and a flat back canoe , a spare lithium ion battery cost $699, I have a couple of long trips planned with the canoe and am suffering from " range anxiety" . Torqeedo recently approved charging the battery while underway with a "house battery",
I have a AGM optima bluetop battery with a Samlex 150 watt pure sine wave inverter to run the Torqeedo fast 80 watt charger, I ordered a Heavy duty, in-line fuseholder for ATC/ATO type fuses. 10 gauge wire for up to 30 amp rating. My question is am I in danger of being electrocuted by running 110 power in a canoe with maybe a little water on the floor?



__._,_.___
Posted by: Adam Horvath <su64aanm@yahoo.com>
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Re: [Electric Boats] Need source for 48v. panel controller and panels-- my next step !

 

You definitely want to step up to an MPPT charge controller. They are well worth the extra investment. I use the Outback Flexmax 80 but there are many other good ones out there. 

One thing about mounting your panels flat on the boat is that you will only be in the sweet spot that gives you the collectors rated output for a few hours per day. The incident angle of the panel in relation to incoming solar radiation has a huge impact on the Watts you'll get. I found that even a crude tracking method to keep the panels facing closer to the sun makes a big difference as to how much energy you can collect in a day.

For me the difference between just leaving my panels flat all day and diligently tracking the sun is about double. That is to say I can get  twice as much energy or more when I work at closely tracking the sun all day. This varies with the time of year and the course I'm stearing but in the morning and  afternoon when the sun is lower in the sky I have observed a tripling of power output between tracking and being flat. See 

 
On Saturday, May 30, 2015 10:22 PM, "'cal' h20dragon@centurytel.net [electricboats]" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Another big consideration, for sailboats in particular, is partial shading. Even the slightest bit of shade on mono or poly crystalline panels can devastate the power output. Amorphous panels are much less susceptable to this problem but they are also much less efficient to begin with so unless your panel will be partially shaded all day, I doubt it's worth the trade off. 

Capt. Carter
www.shipofimagination.com



Now that the outboard is done, battery bank hooked up and all works great, I need to look at extending the run time.  Not liking using a generator, so perhaps panels would do that ??  I was thinking of one 48 volt controller, and maybe four decent sized panels on a " Bimini " type top.  I have one top now, but could build anything to fit the panel size. if I could get 40 amps, that would be continuous power at cruise speed.  That might be asking a lot at 48 volts, so maybe half of that would work ??  Batteries are now marine deep cycle lead acids.
 
What have others done with a reliable controller would be a good start.  Maybe a brand to look for, or a place that could supply a system of panels and controller would also be helpful.  I have done biz in China, so maybe there is a tested system some one has used ??  Flexible panels preferable for an arched top, but I could be tempted to build a flat top with stiff panels, as flat ones are mostly cheaper, higher output.  Need the panels here first, to fit on any top design correctly.
 
Thanks, I would welcome any ideas on products to buy ----------  Cal 




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Posted by: Carter Quillen <twowheelinguy@yahoo.com>
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[Electric Boats] Re: Electric Repower Next Winter?

 

Hello Scott,


I converted my Tartan 27 to electric over 3 years ago. It works very well! It cost me less to go electric than to replace the diesel. I have 6 8v FLA batteries in mine, since they cost much less. I did have to add more vents to the locker that they are in, but they perform just fine. I will change over to lithium some day, but the price needs to drop more! If you don't need to motor for many hours at a time, you can't beat it! Good luck!

Fred Liesegang
"Eagle" Tartan 27-2

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