Sunday, March 31, 2013

[Electric Boats] .::Colin Girvan::.

 
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Saturday, March 30, 2013

Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Not really a boat though

 

A good point but we have run it this way for 2 years w/o an issue. we replace batteries annually  and have replaced since this started and has not made a difference. As stated hate to go to 36 AH batteries unless this can be proven the issue.

On 3/30/2013 2:02 PM, Jason Taylor wrote:
Well,

Captnlen had mentioned in the first post that he was using 18ah batteries when the scooter called for 36ah. This could lead to the system requiring more current than the battery is designed to deliver, with a resulting voltage drop to below some threshold level in the controller, causing a shutdown. Going with a larger bank will have no negative effect, but a smaller bank may. 

Cheers,

/Jason

On Mar 30, 2013, at 11:02, "Roger L" <rogerlov@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

 

Nothing will change. Just like putting a larger fuel tank on your car.
  rog
 
> But if I put 72AH 24 v in the Rascal which says 70 AH would I damage it more
>
> captnlen
>




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Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Not really a boat though

 

Well,

Captnlen had mentioned in the first post that he was using 18ah batteries when the scooter called for 36ah. This could lead to the system requiring more current than the battery is designed to deliver, with a resulting voltage drop to below some threshold level in the controller, causing a shutdown. Going with a larger bank will have no negative effect, but a smaller bank may. 

Cheers,

/Jason

On Mar 30, 2013, at 11:02, "Roger L" <rogerlov@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

 

Nothing will change. Just like putting a larger fuel tank on your car.
  rog
 
> But if I put 72AH 24 v in the Rascal which says 70 AH would I damage it more
>
> captnlen
>




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Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Not really a boat though

 

Nothing will change. Just like putting a larger fuel tank on your car.
  rog
 
> But if I put 72AH 24 v in the Rascal which says 70 AH would I damage it more
>
> captnlen
>




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Friday, March 29, 2013

Re: [Electric Boats] Glen L Mark Twain 36' pontoon electric motor advice.

On 19/03/13 22:49, boucaneer@ymail.com wrote:
>
> I have heard that if ones electric props gets jammed with weed/rope it can burn out the motor so it might be best if the motors used a belt/cam drive so the belt can slip if the motor/prop jams.

The motor controller should limit the current to below 'destruction of
the motor' if it's properly set up. Some of the cheaper electric
outboards may not have motor current limiting.

On my last outing I ran over a palm-tree frond. Sticks/small logs
usually just get swatted out of the way by the prop, but the fibrous
palm just shredded and wrapped around the prop shaft. I normally run
with my main battery meter in current mode - the current shot up and
bounced off the current limit set in the motor controller - along with a
change in pitch and a sudden loss of speed. Seconds later I hit my
e-stop button to cut the power.

I had to jump into the water and untangle the mess.

My motor controller is rated at about 2.5 times that of my motor, and
has the current limit of my motor programmed into it. In theory it
should be able to sit infinitely in stall. In practice I would bet
something would overheat after a little while if I actually tried that -
but I should have more than enough time to cut the power before
something smokes.

Some motor controllers also have thermal protection of the motor as
well - I was looking at a spec for a controller recently that had a
thermocouple input so that it could consider motor temperature and it
had a programmable back off for motor overheating.








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Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Not really a boat though

 

AH, ampere hour capacity is like how big a basket or bucket you have. The bigger the number the more charge you have. Your only concern with AH is that you have enough power for the duration.
Voltage, on the other hand, must not be exceeded lest you damage something. 
Intermittent connections are usually wire, brushes, that sort of thing. Semiconductors don't heal themselves, yet. The click sounds like a relay.

Intermittent failures are hard to troubleshoot.
-Kirk
 
 When you're one step ahead of the crowd you're a genius.
When you're two steps ahead, you're a crackpot.






From: captnlen <trikini2008@embarqmail.com>
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Cc: luv2bsailin <luv2bsailin@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2013 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Not really a boat though

 
It just won't start up when sitting. maybe overnight, sometimes after a few minutes. Like from Stateroom to elevator and then wouldn't exit till I pushed it out to lobby.  will play with speed control and key and then it kicks in and runs fine for days.  The mechanic at the scooter shop locally had it for 2 weeks and he couldn't find anything wrong or get it to do it, then leaving the shop when picked it up stalled 1/2 way through the door.

. Now running fine again.

till next time.  would be better if it just died and stayed dead. Maybe could find the problem <BG>
On 3/29/2013 4:54 PM, luv2bsailin wrote:
captnlen,  Having a higher AH rating will not affect how it runs, other than giving more range and possibly a little more power since there will be less voltage drop under load. Does it stall or cut out only when under heavy load? That could be a clue...  Jim    --- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "trikiniprojects" <trikini2008@...> wrote:  
I have a handicapped room mate.  WE have reconditioned a pair of electric mobility scooters for her they use 24 volt motors.    Been having problems.  The one has simply died while onboard a ship(haha boating content)  hear something click and no movement though power indicator shows full charge and no drain. Last time was while disembarking and pushing scooter and luggage is not the easiest thing I have done. Luckily it clicked back on and is running fine. Took in to shop and they had for 2 weeks and no answer    got the scooter back from shop they did nothing said ran fine and it stalled again going out the door<BG>    Went and swapped scooters and took the rascal out to a mall and it would run and then slow and then run again.  On it the power meter would go up and down as this happened.    Now we have been running 1/2 U 18 AH batteries. and have had no problem but the scooters call for 36 AH on the one and 35 on the other.Now thought the capacity was just that how long it would run but would it effect how it runs. Never did before.    35 or 36 cost 135 for a pair.  Heavy investment for a try since that model doesn't fit a gogo which is the model we would buy to replace these scooters.    Had the idea of using 4 batteries 2 in parallel to get 2 36 AH 12 volt packs.    But if I put 72AH 24 v in the Rascal which says 70 AH would I damage it more    Sailboats I know, pretty good with diesels and have played successfully with OB but figure you as a group may have some better knowledge here    Any thoughts    Thank you    captnlen    
      ------------------------------------    Yahoo! Groups Links    <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electricboats/    <*> Your email settings:      Individual Email | Traditional    <*> To change settings online go to:      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electricboats/join      (Yahoo! ID required)    <*> To change settings via email:      electricboats-digest@yahoogroups.com       electricboats-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com    <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:      electricboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com    <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/      

--   Capt.Len Susman Rtd  Trikini Trimarans


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Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Not really a boat though

 

It just won't start up when sitting. maybe overnight, sometimes after a few minutes. Like from Stateroom to elevator and then wouldn't exit till I pushed it out to lobby.  will play with speed control and key and then it kicks in and runs fine for days.  The mechanic at the scooter shop locally had it for 2 weeks and he couldn't find anything wrong or get it to do it, then leaving the shop when picked it up stalled 1/2 way through the door.

. Now running fine again.

till next time.  would be better if it just died and stayed dead. Maybe could find the problem <BG>

On 3/29/2013 4:54 PM, luv2bsailin wrote:
captnlen,  Having a higher AH rating will not affect how it runs, other than giving more range and possibly a little more power since there will be less voltage drop under load. Does it stall or cut out only when under heavy load? That could be a clue...  Jim    --- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "trikiniprojects" <trikini2008@...> wrote:  
  I have a handicapped room mate.  WE have reconditioned a pair of electric mobility scooters for her they use 24 volt motors.    Been having problems.  The one has simply died while onboard a ship(haha boating content)  hear something click and no movement though power indicator shows full charge and no drain. Last time was while disembarking and pushing scooter and luggage is not the easiest thing I have done. Luckily it clicked back on and is running fine. Took in to shop and they had for 2 weeks and no answer    got the scooter back from shop they did nothing said ran fine and it stalled again going out the door<BG>    Went and swapped scooters and took the rascal out to a mall and it would run and then slow and then run again.  On it the power meter would go up and down as this happened.    Now we have been running 1/2 U 18 AH batteries. and have had no problem but the scooters call for 36 AH on the one and 35 on the other.Now thought the capacity was just that how long it would run but would it effect how it runs. Never did before.    35 or 36 cost 135 for a pair.  Heavy investment for a try since that model doesn't fit a gogo which is the model we would buy to replace these scooters.    Had the idea of using 4 batteries 2 in parallel to get 2 36 AH 12 volt packs.    But if I put 72AH 24 v in the Rascal which says 70 AH would I damage it more    Sailboats I know, pretty good with diesels and have played successfully with OB but figure you as a group may have some better knowledge here    Any thoughts    Thank you    captnlen    
        ------------------------------------    Yahoo! Groups Links    <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electricboats/    <*> Your email settings:      Individual Email | Traditional    <*> To change settings online go to:      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electricboats/join      (Yahoo! ID required)    <*> To change settings via email:      electricboats-digest@yahoogroups.com       electricboats-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com    <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:      electricboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com    <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/      

--   Capt.Len Susman Rtd  Trikini Trimarans

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[Electric Boats] Re: Not really a boat though

 

captnlen,
Having a higher AH rating will not affect how it runs, other than giving more range and possibly a little more power since there will be less voltage drop under load. Does it stall or cut out only when under heavy load? That could be a clue...
Jim

--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "trikiniprojects" <trikini2008@...> wrote:
>
> I have a handicapped room mate. WE have reconditioned a pair of electric mobility scooters for her they use 24 volt motors.
>
> Been having problems. The one has simply died while onboard a ship(haha boating content) hear something click and no movement though power indicator shows full charge and no drain. Last time was while disembarking and pushing scooter and luggage is not the easiest thing I have done. Luckily it clicked back on and is running fine. Took in to shop and they had for 2 weeks and no answer
>
> got the scooter back from shop they did nothing said ran fine and it stalled again going out the door<BG>
>
> Went and swapped scooters and took the rascal out to a mall and it would run and then slow and then run again. On it the power meter would go up and down as this happened.
>
> Now we have been running 1/2 U 18 AH batteries. and have had no problem but the scooters call for 36 AH on the one and 35 on the other.Now thought the capacity was just that how long it would run but would it effect how it runs. Never did before.
>
> 35 or 36 cost 135 for a pair. Heavy investment for a try since that model doesn't fit a gogo which is the model we would buy to replace these scooters.
>
> Had the idea of using 4 batteries 2 in parallel to get 2 36 AH 12 volt packs.
>
> But if I put 72AH 24 v in the Rascal which says 70 AH would I damage it more
>
> Sailboats I know, pretty good with diesels and have played successfully with OB but figure you as a group may have some better knowledge here
>
> Any thoughts
>
> Thank you
>
> captnlen
>

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[Electric Boats] Not really a boat though

 

I have a handicapped room mate. WE have reconditioned a pair of electric mobility scooters for her they use 24 volt motors.

Been having problems. The one has simply died while onboard a ship(haha boating content) hear something click and no movement though power indicator shows full charge and no drain. Last time was while disembarking and pushing scooter and luggage is not the easiest thing I have done. Luckily it clicked back on and is running fine. Took in to shop and they had for 2 weeks and no answer

got the scooter back from shop they did nothing said ran fine and it stalled again going out the door<BG>

Went and swapped scooters and took the rascal out to a mall and it would run and then slow and then run again. On it the power meter would go up and down as this happened.

Now we have been running 1/2 U 18 AH batteries. and have had no problem but the scooters call for 36 AH on the one and 35 on the other.Now thought the capacity was just that how long it would run but would it effect how it runs. Never did before.

35 or 36 cost 135 for a pair. Heavy investment for a try since that model doesn't fit a gogo which is the model we would buy to replace these scooters.

Had the idea of using 4 batteries 2 in parallel to get 2 36 AH 12 volt packs.

But if I put 72AH 24 v in the Rascal which says 70 AH would I damage it more

Sailboats I know, pretty good with diesels and have played successfully with OB but figure you as a group may have some better knowledge here

Any thoughts

Thank you

captnlen

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Thursday, March 28, 2013

RE: [Electric Boats] Re: does anyone have current real world performance figures please

 

I'm running 2-12hp motors with 18x18 props on a 41ft Cat at around 8-9 tons.
At 8 knots I'm using 5kw ea. Don't know what the RPMs are because I've never run her at W.O.T. but the motors are rated at 1500 RPMs ea.

Steve in Solomons MD

Thanks for the input Tom.

Since Julian's props are right around $1300 USD each, I would be very hesitant to modify them at all, but re-pitching them could nudge the power demand by about 10%. Cutting would only be a last resort.

And with the cost of two new props roughly equal to the cost of 5kWh of lithium cells, I would work pretty hard to figure a way to use the ones that I had already paid for.

Eric

--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, Julian Webb <julian.proto@...> wrote:
>
> cheers tom, i was about to ask the prop man what the "plan b" was. thanks
>
>
> On 28 March 2013 02:47, Tom <boat_works@...> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> > Hi Julian,
> >
> > If the motors are overloaded with the 23 x 22 props I'd have them
> > repitched before I resorted to reducing their diameter. You want to keep
> > all the disc area you can.
> >
> > Assuming that the props will be either bronze or Nibral, a prop repair
> > shop should be able to take up to 2" of pitch out of them.
> >
> > -Tom
> >
> > --- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, Julian Webb <julian.proto@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Eric
> > >
> > > - have them As no prop man would guesstimate speed for my boat, maximum
> > efficiency
> >
> > > was all I could head for that they seemed able to calculate to.
> > >
> > > - I know I'm a bit on my own when it comes down to it, just didn't want
> > to
> > > be at the "bleeding edge" and be first-in-my-class but hey someone has to
> > > do it as they say.
> > >
> > > - I'll publish/post all my results and hope I don't have to either new
> > > props made or the proposed ones turned down (the only cheap mod I can
> > think
> > > of) as they are costing me £1000 each!!!
> > >
> > > - I know I could have had off-the-shelf guesses way cheaper but I thought
> > > if I went to a "proper" prop maker I would get what was optimum for my
> > > boat............... time will tell I guess, "a fool and his money" as
> > they
> > > say.
> > >
> > > Cheers, Julian
> > >
> > >

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[Electric Boats] Re: does anyone have current real world performance figures please

 

Thanks for the input Tom.

Since Julian's props are right around $1300 USD each, I would be very hesitant to modify them at all, but re-pitching them could nudge the power demand by about 10%. Cutting would only be a last resort.

And with the cost of two new props roughly equal to the cost of 5kWh of lithium cells, I would work pretty hard to figure a way to use the ones that I had already paid for.

Eric

--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, Julian Webb <julian.proto@...> wrote:
>
> cheers tom, i was about to ask the prop man what the "plan b" was. thanks
>
>
> On 28 March 2013 02:47, Tom <boat_works@...> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> > Hi Julian,
> >
> > If the motors are overloaded with the 23 x 22 props I'd have them
> > repitched before I resorted to reducing their diameter. You want to keep
> > all the disc area you can.
> >
> > Assuming that the props will be either bronze or Nibral, a prop repair
> > shop should be able to take up to 2" of pitch out of them.
> >
> > -Tom
> >
> > --- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, Julian Webb <julian.proto@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Eric
> > >
> > > - have them As no prop man would guesstimate speed for my boat, maximum
> > efficiency
> >
> > > was all I could head for that they seemed able to calculate to.
> > >
> > > - I know I'm a bit on my own when it comes down to it, just didn't want
> > to
> > > be at the "bleeding edge" and be first-in-my-class but hey someone has to
> > > do it as they say.
> > >
> > > - I'll publish/post all my results and hope I don't have to either new
> > > props made or the proposed ones turned down (the only cheap mod I can
> > think
> > > of) as they are costing me £1000 each!!!
> > >
> > > - I know I could have had off-the-shelf guesses way cheaper but I thought
> > > if I went to a "proper" prop maker I would get what was optimum for my
> > > boat............... time will tell I guess, "a fool and his money" as
> > they
> > > say.
> > >
> > > Cheers, Julian
> > >
> > >

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