Saturday, September 7, 2019

[Electric Boats] Hunter 34 Sailboat Conversion

 

I have to make a decision soon about replacing my Westerbeke 21hp diesel. I certainly will NOT put a Westerbeke back in, so it comes down to another similar size diesel, electric, or maybe even gas (which is doable and WAY cheaper than diesel). I have read most of the topics here and on the Cruiser Forum about electric conversions. I was wondering if anyone could offer some specific thoughts on my boat regarding an electric conversion. One advantage of the Hunter is that it is a very good light air boat, particularly with the tall mast which I have.

Hunter 34 specs

34' overall
28' waterline
11.5 beam
11,820 displacement
Currently has a 14", 3 blade Campbell Sailor prop
Have a 3650 watt generator
2 160 watt 12vdc solar panels in parallel
4 100 amp 12vdc battery house bank

I was looking at a Thunderstruck 10kw motor with a 2:1 gear reduction. 200 amp 48vdc battery bank. 30 amp 48vdc battery charger. Install 2 more solar panels (I use the solar panels as my bimini so have the room to mount them) and wire in series for 48vdc.

Looking at what others have described as their performance characteristics it seems I could motor 2 to 3 hours at 4 kts (with the diesel I usually cruise at 5 kts)  and use 50% of the battery bank if starting fully charged. I figure with he solar panels and the generator running I could double that time if needed.

Replace diesel with a rebuilt, about $6k if I do most of the work. New diesel would be $9-10k
Gas, about $3k if I do the work
Electric, about $5k if I do the work

Any thoughts, comments from anyone?


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Posted by: jheape@gmail.com
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Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Greetings! Catalina 30 owner here, considering an electric repower

 

I think your plan is sound. The solar charging will work, it is just a matter of time. If you use 5kw hours of battery, and you have 200 watts of panels that put back in 1kw a day, it would take 5 days to charge it back up. So if that fits your sailing style it should be fine. Worst case scenario is you buy a Honda generator later on, and a battery charger, if you need a longer run time.

On Sat, Sep 7, 2019, 2:06 AM gotz2sail@yahoo.com [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Hi,

I have a 5kw/48v (bit undersized but it came with the boat), 240ah flooded bank and a tripp-lite 15a charger, no solar. I charge off of shore power. I was concerned about running out of juice for whatever reason. I did the math and bought a mid-size portable generator that had an RV connection.

Sure enough when I brought the boar from SF Bay to the delta I had no wind, figures with my luck lol. Clamped bank lead and I was motoring at 15a-ish. Generator did the trick! Fired it up and plugged into shore power connection. Charger output at 15a. I watched amp out of bank drop to 0-ish.

In short I was able to motor sail without discharging the bank kind of. End result was motor sail for 8hrs at 15a. Lost 2ah out of bank. That was from goosing it now and then plus slight difference between clamp and charger I guess?

Next step is to can the old charger and step up to a 25a charger.

-john

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Posted by: Kev <captainyoung@gmail.com>
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Re: [Electric Boats] Greetings! Catalina 30 owner here, considering an electric repower

 

Hi John, 


That would be great shoot me an email. Matt@sunlightconversions.com

If you are ever in the NY/NJ area look me up. I would gladly give you a tour of my boat and take you for a sail. That goes for anyone on this forum as well. 

Matt Foley

Sunlight Conversions 
1-201-914-0466
WeChat: Mattymoonshine

Sent from mobile device 

On Sep 3, 2019, at 10:28 AM, JD jpgroupfinancial@yahoo.com [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Hi Matt,

I have a 1983 C30 that had an old atomic 4 in it. Last season I installed an electric 12kw motor. I have some good lessons learned and would be willing to share my experiences with you.

 <image1.jpeg>

On Sep 2, 2019, at 9:08 AM, Matt Foley matt@sunlightconversions.com [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

 A used replacement diesel would cost $3k, not counting labor & incidentals, and a new one is over $6k. I'm not thrilled at putting in another raw water cooled noisy thing at such a premium, and we're seriously considering an electric repower for the next season.  AGREED, IT SEEMS ARCHAIC TO INSTALL A BRAND NEW DIESEL THAT MAY LAST 30 YEARS... AN ELECTRIC MOTOR IS FUTURE PROOF. TODAY WE USE BATTERIES, MAYBE TOMORROW IT WILL BE A FUEL CELL BUT IT WILL STILL BE AN ELECTRIC DRIVE. BY GOING ELECTRIC YOU NEED TO KEEP IN MIND YOU WILL BE SACRIFICING RANGE, PARTICULARLY RANGE AT SPEED. BATTERY TECH GETS BETTER AND CHEAPER EVERY DAY BUT WE ARE STILL A WAYS AWAY.    

We live in Maine, work full-time, and have a young family---we are day sailors for the foreseeable future.  We generally have used the engine to power in and out of the harbor and get canvas up. Of course, a bit of extra power for the doldrums & emergencies is a good idea.


We have a mooring (shore power is not something we have regular access to) and were thinking of a 10kW brushless DC motor & controller, etc, a ~10kw battery bank (probably AGM), and some solar panels to mount off the stern.  What research I've done suggests that this would be enough to get a few hours of power at ~3-4 kts every few days, which seems adequate. 10KW MOTOR IS PLENTY FOR YOUR BOAT. I THINK 10KWH BATTERY BANK  IS A GOOD PLACE TO START BUT KEEP IN MIND A 10 KWH BANK OF AGM BATTERIES WILL GIVE YOU A USABLE 5 KWH. FOR THIS REASON AND MANY OTHERS ITS HARD TO RECOMMEND ANYTHING BUT LITHIUM. PERSONALLY, I WOULD ONLY RECOMMEND AGM IF YOU COULD GET THEM CHEAP AND ARE FULLY AWARE OF THEIR LIMITATIONS, E.G PEUKERT'S LAW.


So, I'm looking for advice if this sounds like a good plan, and for some tips about the size & type of solar panels we should consider. I'm looking at the 10kw brushless kit on Thunderstruck. I'd really prefer to keep the parts cost at $5k-6k, which seems like it might be possible. YOU CAN GO WITH FLEXIBLE OR RIGID, REALLY DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU CAN FIT WHERE.  I HAVE AN O'DAY 31 AND I'M ABLE TO FIT A TOTAL OF 460 WATTS ON MY BIMINI AND DODGER. ON A GOOD DAY I GET ABOUT 30 AMP HOURS AT 52 VOLTS OR 1.5 KWH'S. THAT'S ABOUT 15% CHARGE A DAY. ON A TYPICAL DAY SAIL IN THE BAY, I MAY ONLY USE 15%. I'M ON A MOORING AS WELL. I HAVE ONLY CHARGED AT A DOCK IF I'M ON A MULTI DAY SAIL..


I'm also curious about hydrogenerators; our mooring sits in an estuary that experiences strong currents at midtide and I'm curious if the prop as  genset or a secondary hydro turbine would be a wise supplement to the solar. HOW FAST IS THE CURRENT? I DON'T THINK YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO USE PROP. YOU WOULD HAVE A BETTER CHANCE WITH A SECONDARY HYDRO TURBINE. 


If we go this route, I would probably do some of the installation work under the guidance of a knowledgeable boat mechanic. 





Matt Foley 
Sunlight Conversions
Perpetual Energy, LLC
201-914-0466


On Monday, August 26, 2019, 09:35:46 AM EDT, jasonsewall@gmail.com [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 

Hello electric boaters,


My wife and I bought a 1982 Catalina 30 about 4 years ago and we have had a fine time sailing it. Alas, around a year ago, the original Universal 5411 diesel engine broke down, and after what seems a very long time of looking at it, the mechanic says it's beyond saving. 


A used replacement diesel would cost $3k, not counting labor & incidentals, and a new one is over $6k. I'm not thrilled at putting in another raw water cooled noisy thing at such a premium, and we're seriously considering an electric repower for the next season.


We live in Maine, work full-time, and have a young family---we are day sailors for the foreseeable future.  We generally have used the engine to power in and out of the harbor and get canvas up. Of course, a bit of extra power for the doldrums & emergencies is a good idea.


We have a mooring (shore power is not something we have regular access to) and were thinking of a 10kW brushless DC motor & controller, etc, a ~10kw battery bank (probably AGM), and some solar panels to mount off the stern.  What research I've done suggests that this would be enough to get a few hours of power at ~3-4 kts every few days, which seems adequate.


So, I'm looking for advice if this sounds like a good plan, and for some tips about the size & type of solar panels we should consider. I'm looking at the 10kw brushless kit on Thunderstruck. I'd really prefer to keep the parts cost at $5k-6k, which seems like it might be possible..


I'm also curious about hydrogenerators; our mooring sits in an estuary that experiences strong currents at midtide and I'm curious if the prop as  genset or a secondary hydro turbine would be a wise supplement to the solar.


If we go this route, I would probably do some of the installation work under the guidance of a knowledgeable boat mechanic.


Thanks and I look forward to learning a lot from you folks.

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Posted by: Matt Foley <matt@sunlightconversions.com>
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Re: [Electric Boats] Parallel DIY

 

Great idea, parallel hybrid using your existing twin diesels and propulsion system is possible. Running the diesels will give you heaps of regen so you will need plenty of battery storage. You would have to check how the regen works on the electric motors if you put the diesel in reverse. It may only need some additional programing of the controllers if required. I assume being a power cat you have two prop shafts and props. You could trial it on one shaft before committing to both. The standard options to transfer the power to the prop shafts from an electric motors are belt or chain. Connecting pulleys or sprockets to the shafts aft of the gear boxes could be done using tapered bushes. Split two piece collars are no advantage as the  pulleys or sprockets still have to be slipped over the shaft. You probably have a split collar at the flexible coupling aft of the gearbox. If this is the case then you can disconnect here and slip the shaft back to get the tapered bush and pulley on. Most importantly consider that you are putting transverse loads into the shaft from the electric motor, an additional bearing may be required on the shaft to take the transverse loads away from the flexible coupling and cutless bearing. Apart from the extra load on the shaft and possible abnormal wear on the gearbox components not forgetting possible space/access restrictions, I do not see why its not feasible.   

On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 4:07 PM rjmcarthur@gmail.com [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

We have a power cat with twin diesels. Rather than going electric only, or serial hybrid, we are thinking of at least starting by keeping the diesels and seeing how we go as a parallel hybrid.
The parallel hybrid would have a new electric motor to a speed reduction unit (two differently sized pulleys), then by a belt to a wheel attached to the prop shaft. The attachment would be after the gearbox-engine, as our gearbox can freewheel safely and the diesel would be out of gear.
We may start with one or two Thunderstruck 10kW kits or something similar.
However, I can't work out how to connect the electric motor to the prop shaft. Obviously a wheel (pulley? what do you call it?!) to run the belt on, tightly locked on the prop shaft (ours is 40mm). Preferably using a split collar to reduce maintenance cost (haulouts).
Does anyone know any solutions?



--
Kind regards Mick 0414 264 312

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Posted by: Michael Ryan <mryanqld@gmail.com>
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Re: [Electric Boats] Greetings! Catalina 30 owner here, considering an electric repower

 

Hi, everyone,

I appreciate the great discussions, I've learned a lot, but may I suggest that photos be resized 
to be much smaller before posting? All of the emails and pics in the thread (I use Gmail) require 
sliding back and forth to read the lines and see the pics that go waaaay off the right of the monitor.

Thanks!

Dan

Daniel H. Wolf, Esq.
Founder, CEO
Democracy Counts!
San Diego, CA 92103 USA
619.270.6434 Mobile

Act always as if the future of the universe depends on what you do, while laughing at yourself for thinking that anything you do makes any difference.

                                                                                                  A Buddhist saying


On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 11:06 PM JD jpgroupfinancial@yahoo.com [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Hi Matt,

I have a 1983 C30 that had an old atomic 4 in it. Last season I installed an electric 12kw motor. I have some good lessons learned and would be willing to share my experiences with you.

 

On Sep 2, 2019, at 9:08 AM, Matt Foley matt@sunlightconversions..com [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

 A used replacement diesel would cost $3k, not counting labor & incidentals, and a new one is over $6k. I'm not thrilled at putting in another raw water cooled noisy thing at such a premium, and we're seriously considering an electric repower for the next season.  AGREED, IT SEEMS ARCHAIC TO INSTALL A BRAND NEW DIESEL THAT MAY LAST 30 YEARS.. AN ELECTRIC MOTOR IS FUTURE PROOF. TODAY WE USE BATTERIES, MAYBE TOMORROW IT WILL BE A FUEL CELL BUT IT WILL STILL BE AN ELECTRIC DRIVE. BY GOING ELECTRIC YOU NEED TO KEEP IN MIND YOU WILL BE SACRIFICING RANGE, PARTICULARLY RANGE AT SPEED. BATTERY TECH GETS BETTER AND CHEAPER EVERY DAY BUT WE ARE STILL A WAYS AWAY.    

We live in Maine, work full-time, and have a young family---we are day sailors for the foreseeable future.  We generally have used the engine to power in and out of the harbor and get canvas up. Of course, a bit of extra power for the doldrums & emergencies is a good idea.


We have a mooring (shore power is not something we have regular access to) and were thinking of a 10kW brushless DC motor & controller, etc, a ~10kw battery bank (probably AGM), and some solar panels to mount off the stern.  What research I've done suggests that this would be enough to get a few hours of power at ~3-4 kts every few days, which seems adequate. 10KW MOTOR IS PLENTY FOR YOUR BOAT. I THINK 10KWH BATTERY BANK  IS A GOOD PLACE TO START BUT KEEP IN MIND A 10 KWH BANK OF AGM BATTERIES WILL GIVE YOU A USABLE 5 KWH. FOR THIS REASON AND MANY OTHERS ITS HARD TO RECOMMEND ANYTHING BUT LITHIUM. PERSONALLY, I WOULD ONLY RECOMMEND AGM IF YOU COULD GET THEM CHEAP AND ARE FULLY AWARE OF THEIR LIMITATIONS, E...G PEUKERT'S LAW.


So, I'm looking for advice if this sounds like a good plan, and for some tips about the size & type of solar panels we should consider. I'm looking at the 10kw brushless kit on Thunderstruck. I'd really prefer to keep the parts cost at $5k-6k, which seems like it might be possible. YOU CAN GO WITH FLEXIBLE OR RIGID, REALLY DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU CAN FIT WHERE.  I HAVE AN O'DAY 31 AND I'M ABLE TO FIT A TOTAL OF 460 WATTS ON MY BIMINI AND DODGER. ON A GOOD DAY I GET ABOUT 30 AMP HOURS AT 52 VOLTS OR 1.5 KWH'S. THAT'S ABOUT 15% CHARGE A DAY. ON A TYPICAL DAY SAIL IN THE BAY, I MAY ONLY USE 15%. I'M ON A MOORING AS WELL. I HAVE ONLY CHARGED AT A DOCK IF I'M ON A MULTI DAY SAIL..


I'm also curious about hydrogenerators; our mooring sits in an estuary that experiences strong currents at midtide and I'm curious if the prop as  genset or a secondary hydro turbine would be a wise supplement to the solar. HOW FAST IS THE CURRENT? I DON'T THINK YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO USE PROP. YOU WOULD HAVE A BETTER CHANCE WITH A SECONDARY HYDRO TURBINE. 


If we go this route, I would probably do some of the installation work under the guidance of a knowledgeable boat mechanic. 





Matt Foley 
Sunlight Conversions
Perpetual Energy, LLC
201-914-0466


On Monday, August 26, 2019, 09:35:46 AM EDT, jasonsewall@gmail.com [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 

Hello electric boaters,


My wife and I bought a 1982 Catalina 30 about 4 years ago and we have had a fine time sailing it. Alas, around a year ago, the original Universal 5411 diesel engine broke down, and after what seems a very long time of looking at it, the mechanic says it's beyond saving. 


A used replacement diesel would cost $3k, not counting labor & incidentals, and a new one is over $6k. I'm not thrilled at putting in another raw water cooled noisy thing at such a premium, and we're seriously considering an electric repower for the next season.


We live in Maine, work full-time, and have a young family---we are day sailors for the foreseeable future.  We generally have used the engine to power in and out of the harbor and get canvas up. Of course, a bit of extra power for the doldrums & emergencies is a good idea.


We have a mooring (shore power is not something we have regular access to) and were thinking of a 10kW brushless DC motor & controller, etc, a ~10kw battery bank (probably AGM), and some solar panels to mount off the stern.  What research I've done suggests that this would be enough to get a few hours of power at ~3-4 kts every few days, which seems adequate.


So, I'm looking for advice if this sounds like a good plan, and for some tips about the size & type of solar panels we should consider. I'm looking at the 10kw brushless kit on Thunderstruck. I'd really prefer to keep the parts cost at $5k-6k, which seems like it might be possible..


I'm also curious about hydrogenerators; our mooring sits in an estuary that experiences strong currents at midtide and I'm curious if the prop as  genset or a secondary hydro turbine would be a wise supplement to the solar.


If we go this route, I would probably do some of the installation work under the guidance of a knowledgeable boat mechanic.


Thanks and I look forward to learning a lot from you folks.

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Posted by: Daniel Wolf <danielhwolf@gmail.com>
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Friday, September 6, 2019

[Electric Boats] Parallel DIY

 

We have a power cat with twin diesels. Rather than going electric only, or serial hybrid, we are thinking of at least starting by keeping the diesels and seeing how we go as a parallel hybrid.
The parallel hybrid would have a new electric motor to a speed reduction unit (two differently sized pulleys), then by a belt to a wheel attached to the prop shaft. The attachment would be after the gearbox-engine, as our gearbox can freewheel safely and the diesel would be out of gear.
We may start with one or two Thunderstruck 10kW kits or something similar.
However, I can't work out how to connect the electric motor to the prop shaft. Obviously a wheel (pulley? what do you call it?!) to run the belt on, tightly locked on the prop shaft (ours is 40mm). Preferably using a split collar to reduce maintenance cost (haulouts).
Does anyone know any solutions?

__._,_.___
Posted by: rjmcarthur@gmail.com
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Re: [Electric Boats] Greetings! Catalina 30 owner here, considering an electric repower

 

Hi
While a electric drive sounds attractive, in a small boat on a mooring you will never have room for enough solar battery charging that will cost more than the motor install. Even if you were to install enough solar and arch?, lots of batteries ,and an electric motor it will only be suitable as an in and out of harbor slow speed auxiliary engine.5 knots max 3knts cruise.
It will never be suitable for say 4-5 hours of motor on a no wind day. ( cost of elec motor and install , solar , batteries $10-20k for sure)
Your best option is. Mount a new 10-15 hp gas outboard on a transom mount and regain space in the boat. Cost $3-5k. Go 6 knots all day long , easy decision. The new four-stroke motors are not that noisy and very reliable and require very little additional installation. They also don't require new batteries every 5 yrs, probably $1000 a pop! ( lithium would be 3 x your boat value!! )
Not the answer most want to hear but way more practical.
Cheers Warren

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Posted by: dynaform@aol.com
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