[Electric Boats] Parting out electric trimaran

 

I am wheelchair bound due to being rear ended by an uninsured motorist, but my 30' trimaran has a DC motot,shafts batteries charger two harbor freight lawn mower engines. I have never used the elect propolis on system,but saw it worked when I bought it. I cannot send pics due to mobility. You can come to belfair, wa and buy the electric propolis on system for $500 cash firm. I have been told the motor alone new cost about 2k. Contact me by email and will give my phone number. You have to remove system from boat, but then you get to see it hooked up. The mower engines turn alternators or you can use shore power.

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Posted by: panache_fine_art@yahoo.com

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Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Direct Drive QS Hub Motors

 

Not a bad choice. The Motenergy motors have a proven track record as small boat propulsion motors and service from the mfgr is pretty darn good. John at Motenergy was quick to help me out with a bidirectional fan when I realized that switching from reduction drive to direct drive makes the motor turn the wrong way for optimum cooling. The Sevcon controller that comes with the kit is highly regarded. However I understand that you need special equipment to change the software configuration. The Kelly controllers are easily configured by the user. Some people are perfectly happy with the way the Sevcon controller comes pre configured and don't really want to tinker with such minutae anyway, though. The ME1305 motor is an updated version of the ME0907 and so the stated RPM/volts constant of 50 is actually probably 67 but details details. Ask about the Curtis bidirectional throttle. If I understand correctly it works like an EOT, i.e. center position is stop, one way is FWD with speed depending on how far from center you move it, and the other way is REV in similar fashion. This is a lot easier and intuitive than a separate reversing switch. If you are up to the task of experimenting with your reduction ratio, get a belt type reduction gear or fabricate one yourself, so you can change ratio by swapping out a pulley or both pulleys. Thunderstruck's reduction gear looks a bit flimsy to me but then again I overbuild everything. The cables in the kit look a bit smaller than I like. I favor 2/0 cable for supply and phase cables. No biggie if it is truly to be used as auxiliary power and not all the time like some "sailors". All Electronics sometimes has some nice bit heat sinks that would work for the controller. You will want a charger of course, and probably a 48v inverter (get a sine wave type... they are getting a lot cheaper these days) and a DC/DC converter for 12v loads. Even if you keep your old house bank, it is good to have a redundant source of 12v power, but if you choose to let your house batts die a peaceful death from old age without replacing them, you get some weight and space back when you eventually remove them.

If you use the Thunderstruck belt reduction, you may want to beef it up by welding on additional steel so you can bolt to all four engine motor mount holes or bolts in the engine bed stringers, and maybe some bracing to help control flex and keep the angle of incidence with the shaft at 90. If you use something like the Baldor enclosed gearbox, you will need to fabricate the motor mount from scratch. I really like the Baldor units but you can't readily change the ratio. I started with a 2:1 and later tried a 3:1 and found that it was actually less efficient, which is why I thought to try direct drive. 3:1 would have probably been better if I was in a bigger hull or was swinging a bigger wheel. You can get an idea of what building a mount can entail from my website, www.growleymonster.com/eboat/ if you are curious. Anyway I can sell the 3:1 gearbox for a bit less than what it cost, if you want it. Only has been used about 3 hours. Keeping the 2:1 for now.

Don't forget an instrument panel. You will want to keep an eye on controller supply current and voltage, and watthours used, and propellor RPM. Lots of all in one digital power meters on ebay and hall effect digital tachometers as well, so you can do an instrument panel pretty cheap. There are even some dandy little GPS speedometers that you can incorporate into the panel so you can log SOG along with volts, amps, watts, and RPM. Optimizing the reduction ratio and/or prop size is very data intensive. Speed monitoring is therefore very important, and you need more accuracy than your smartphone and more convenience than a chart plotter or laptop for this.

---In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, <mryanqld@...> wrote :

Hi All I have gone cold on the QS motors for a number of reasons. My plan now is to buy a 5KW Thunderstruck kit complete with a reduction unit and fit it to the Nordic 17. They seem to be the best value and are a popular choice for DIY. I am OK with the mechanical side of boat propulsion and basic 12 volt electrical systems but have a lot to learn about electric motors and controllers. I know this is dumb question and their are a lot of variables but what LiFePO4 battery bank capacity do I need to get a six hour run timeat 48v?.. My budget could run to 16 x 3.2  Volt 200ah Calbs or Winstons is this enough? The motor used in the kit is a ME1305.  

On Mon, Jan 15, 2018 at 1:37 PM, Michael Ryan <mryanqld@...> wrote:

Although the QS 6000W motor I priced is designed for use on a small car and not a ebike type I am reconsidering this option. Their are questions about their durability and to go for a conventional proved motor is good advice. The design and fabrication of a thrust limiter or reduction drive system for me is not a problem as I have a mechanical background but only starting to get my head around the electrical side. I can see some advantages of indirect drive, proven components, no thrust on the motor, ratio's can be very easily changed, lifts the motor higher. The only disadvantage is power loss.  

Regarding correct prop size, on a previous heavy displacement sailboat fitted with a 30hp Yanmar the theoretical  hull speed was about 7..2 kts.  Full engine RPM flat out in calm water with no wind resulted in a wave forming at the transom and a noticeable squatting down in the stern. The engine was also loaded up and starting to blow black smoke. I believe that this boat had the optimum engine/propeller for it. The squatting down and stern wave is the boat trying to get up on the plane which is obviously not going to happen. Backing the throttle of 50% only reduced the speed to 5.5 kts.

The Nordic 17 based on a waterline lenght of 16 feet will have a theoretical  hull speed of about 5.1 kts.  I suspect the sweet spot for this hull will be around 4.5 kts.

On Mon, Jan 15, 2018 at 5:58 AM, Matthew Geier matthew@acfr..usyd.edu.au [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com > wrote:

 

I have 'electrifed' a similar Nordic double ender - a project that
probably inspired 'mryanqld'. These boats need very little power - I've
found that the 'sweet spot' cruising speed for my hull, the system is
running only at 1500w.. I can wind the power up more, but little extra
speed is gained for the extra power, the boat just starts to pull a
bigger wave behind it.

I'm using the orginal prop that was on the boat when it used to have a
5.7hp two cylinder, two stroke 'Blaxland'. I believe the prop is the one
that came with the original Blaxland engine and designed for the high
torque two stroke. Certainly back in the 'stink pot' era when the clutch
started to wear I'd had the clutch slip instead of the prop cavitating
when the boat was under load (lots of teens hanging of the back wanting
to be towed through the water!)

I direct drive a Perm 132, although when my Trojan's finally give up, I
may go to 48v and put a 2:1 reduction on it, the higher voltage will
lower the current and the heat losses. (But the new gearbox losses may
be higher than my current heat losses :-)

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Kind regards Mick 0414 264 312

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Kind regards Mick 0414 264 312

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Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Direct Drive QS Hub Motors

 

You should be happy with the Thunderstruck kit.

--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 2/14/18, Michael Ryan mryanqld@gmail.com [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Direct Drive QS Hub Motors
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 10:52 PM


 









Hi All I have gone cold on the
QS motors for a number of reasons. My plan now is to buy a
5KW Thunderstruck kit complete with a reduction unit and fit
it to the Nordic 17. They seem to be the best value and are
a popular choice for DIY. I am OK with the mechanical side
of boat propulsion and basic 12 volt electrical systems but
have a lot to learn about electric motors and controllers. I
know this is dumb question and their are a lot of variables
but what LiFePO4 battery bank capacity do I need to get a
six hour run time

at
48v?

... My budget could run to 16 x 3.2  Volt 200ah Calbs or
Winstons is this enough? The motor used in the kit is a
ME1305.  
On Mon,
Jan 15, 2018 at 1:37 PM, Michael Ryan <mryanqld@gmail.com>
wrote:
Although the QS
6000W motor I priced is designed for use on a small car and
not a ebike
type I am reconsidering this option. Their are questions
about their durability and to go for a conventional proved
motor is good advice. The design and fabrication of a thrust
limiter or reduction drive system for me is not a problem as
I have a mechanical background but only starting to get my
head around the electrical side. I can see some advantages
of indirect drive, proven components, no thrust on the
motor, ratio's can be very easily changed, lifts the
motor higher. The only disadvantage is power
loss.  
Regarding correct prop size,
on a previous heavy
displacement sailboat fitted with a 30hp Yanmar
the theoretical  hull speed was about 7..2 kts. 
Full
engine RPM flat out
in calm water
with no wind resulted in a wave forming at the transom and a
noticeable squatting down in the stern. The engine was also
loaded up and starting to blow black smoke. I believe that
this boat had the optimum engine/propeller for it. The
squatting down and stern wave is the boat trying to get up
on the plane which is obviously not going to happen. Backing
the throttle of 50% only reduced the speed to 5.5 kts.
The Nordic 17
based on a waterline lenght
of 16 feet will have a theoretical 
hull speed of about 5.1 kts. 
I suspect the sweet spot for this hull will be around 4.5
kts.
On Mon, Jan 15, 2018 at
5:58 AM, Matthew Geier matthew@acfr..usyd.edu.au
[electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com
> wrote:















 











I have 'electrifed' a similar Nordic double ender -
a project that

probably inspired 'mryanqld'. These boats need very
little power - I've

found that the 'sweet spot' cruising speed for my
hull, the system is

running only at 1500w.. I can wind the power up more, but
little extra

speed is gained for the extra power, the boat just starts to
pull a

bigger wave behind it.



I'm using the orginal prop that was on the boat when it
used to have a

5.7hp two cylinder, two stroke 'Blaxland'. I believe
the prop is the one

that came with the original Blaxland engine and designed for
the high

torque two stroke. Certainly back in the 'stink pot'
era when the clutch

started to wear I'd had the clutch slip instead of the
prop cavitating

when the boat was under load (lots of teens hanging of the
back wanting

to be towed through the water!)



I direct drive a Perm 132, although when my Trojan's
finally give up, I

may go to 48v and put a 2:1 reduction on it, the higher
voltage will

lower the current and the heat losses. (But the new gearbox
losses may

be higher than my current heat losses :-)


























--
Kind regards Mick 0414 264
312




--
Kind regards Mick 0414 264
312











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Posted by: bob jennings <sabre281@yahoo.com>

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Re: [Electric Boats] Re: wiring diaigram

 

Bruce,

This could help you:

1) Scheme of drawing: https://www.goldenmotor.com/eBoat/HPM%20Drive%20Kit%20Setup.jpg

2) (if this is your case)  Controler VEC300: https://www.goldenmotor.com/controllers/GoldenMotor%20FOC%20Motor%20Controller%20Guide.pdf

I hope this help you.

Cheers,

Niko

2018-02-09 11:04 GMT-02:00 BRUCE NOBLE brucenoble@bellsouth.net [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>:

 

Thanks for the info   Bruce

On Feb 8, 2018, at 6:30 AM, king_of_neworleans <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Should be with the documentation for the controller. If not, look on the controller maker's site. If you buy the controller from the manufacturer be sure to tell them what motor you will be using so they can make the proper configuration settings. If you use a Kelly controller, be sure it is flashed with the "stick shift throttle" firmware. If this is then enabled in the configuration, you can use one control for both speed and direction. Typically a controller puts out a 5v supply to the throttle and the throttle control sends a control signal back to the controller that is simply a dc voltage between 0v and 5v which is read by the controller as the speed command, A switch grounds the REV pin for reverse. The stickshift option eliminates the need for a reverse switch. Half of the 0-5v range of the throttle input signal sets forward speed. Half of the range sets reverse speed. Right in the middle, a narrow range sets the motor at stop. A potentiometer of 1000 to 10k ohm can serve as the control device, or you can use a hall type throttle. I don't know if the Golden or Sevcon controllers have that feature or not.

Basically you have three big phase cable connections. Probably 5 wires going to the hall sensor array in the motor for the three hall signals, supply voltage, and ground. Three wires to the throttle, 5v, signal, and ground. Two wires for system ON switch, two for Reverse.. Brake signal not needed unless you will sail fast enough to make use of regen. Optional boost switch, of use mostly to motorcycle builders and not much use for boats. Two wires for internal motor thermistor switch. A couple of optional external LEDs. Documentation will have pinouts. Premade wiring harnesses could have smallish phase and power cables and you really should go with about 2/0 cable for those. Everything else is likely to be too short or too long, The multiple wire blade connectors will be a source of trouble. So I suggest you get the appropriate connectors to plug directly into the ! controller and wire everything yourself. You can use screw terminal blocks to break everything up, and be sure to label wires for ease of troubleshooting or repair.

---In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, <brucenoble@...> wrote :

one more question for the group :  if one bought a 5kw motor and a 5kw controller with the wiring harness. does anyone have a wiring diagram showing wiring for forward / reverse and speed control using golden motors setup    or is there one hidden in this site somewhere        Thanks in advance  Bruce

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Posted by: Nikolai Ojevan <nikolai.ojevan@gmail.com>

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Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Shaft Slip Joint Idea

 

--

Jason Taylor

v:514-815-8204dont knownif it's applicable to your situation, but when I went to a stainless shaft, I had to put on an anode. My old setup was bronze shaft with bronze prop and bronze cutless bearing, and directly coupled to yanmar engine — zero corrosion in 35 years, without a sacrificial anode. The new setup is as above but with a stainless shaft and a rubber shaft-saver between the transmission and the shaft. So the shaft/prop is isolated. And dissimilar metals in an electrolyte will make a battery. And it's the bronze that will serve as the anode, unless something else (zinc in saltwater or magnesium in fresh) is connected to the shaft. I replace it every year and a good deal of it is eaten away at haul out. After 4 seasons, the bronze prop is still perfect. 

e:j@jtaylor.ca

On Feb 15, 2018, at 17:21, king_of_neworleans <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Well, I finished the new motor and thrust bearing mount. Preliminary rough alignment gives me about the same performance figures as the old setup with the 2:1 gearbox. I say about, because I ran the motor with the boat tied down to the dock. Too windy for a good test run... the data would be all over the place, and previous testing was done in calm conditions so it would be apples and oranges. RPM/watt slightly lower, of course, tied down, but it looks about right. I was hoping to see the kind of improvement I saw before, with the rough and ready thrust bearing assembly bolted to the motor, but no cigar. Next week I will be replacing the beat up bent up old bronze shaft with a nice new SS one and replacing the cutless bearing, also switching from the 14x10 prop to its twin which I cut down t o 13x10. The spline shaft coupling works a treat. It is instantly apparent when the system is out of alignment, when the sleeve does not slide smoothly fore and aft on the splined shaft ends.

Only thing is, the motor's internal fan is optimized for turning CCW, but with a right hand wheel and direct drive it is turning CW in FWD. I have been running it all day at 500w and the motor is barely warm to the touch, so maybe that's not a deal breaker. I will probably get me one of those bidirectional fans that Motenergy makes for their motors, just the same.

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Posted by: "Jason (Electric Boats) Taylor" <jt.yahoo@jtaylor.ca>

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[Electric Boats] Re: Shaft Slip Joint Idea

 

Well, I finished the new motor and thrust bearing mount. Preliminary rough alignment gives me about the same performance figures as the old setup with the 2:1 gearbox. I say about, because I ran the motor with the boat tied down to the dock. Too windy for a good test run... the data would be all over the place, and previous testing was done in calm conditions so it would be apples and oranges. RPM/watt slightly lower, of course, tied down, but it looks about right. I was hoping to see the kind of improvement I saw before, with the rough and ready thrust bearing assembly bolted to the motor, but no cigar. Next week I will be replacing the beat up bent up old bronze shaft with a nice new SS one and replacing the cutless bearing, also switching from the 14x10 prop to its twin which I cut down to 13x10. The spline shaft coupling works a treat. It is instantly apparent when the system is out of alignment, when the sleeve does not slide smoothly fore and aft on the splined shaft ends.

Only thing is, the motor's internal fan is optimized for turning CCW, but with a right hand wheel and direct drive it is turning CW in FWD. I have been running it all day at 500w and the motor is barely warm to the touch, so maybe that's not a deal breaker. I will probably get me one of those bidirectional fans that Motenergy makes for their motors, just the same.

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Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Direct Drive QS Hub Motors

 

Hi All I have gone cold on the QS motors for a number of reasons. My plan now is to buy a 5KW Thunderstruck kit complete with a reduction unit and fit it to the Nordic 17. They seem to be the best value and are a popular choice for DIY. I am OK with the mechanical side of boat propulsion and basic 12 volt electrical systems but have a lot to learn about electric motors and controllers. I know this is dumb question and their are a lot of variables but what LiFePO4 battery bank capacity do I need to get a six hour run time at 48v? ... My budget could run to 16 x 3.2  Volt 200ah Calbs or Winstons is this enough? The motor used in the kit is a ME1305.  

On Mon, Jan 15, 2018 at 1:37 PM, Michael Ryan <mryanqld@gmail.com> wrote:

Although the QS 6000W motor I priced is designed for use on a small car and not a ebike type I am reconsidering this option. Their are questions about their durability and to go for a conventional proved motor is good advice. The design and fabrication of a thrust limiter or reduction drive system for me is not a problem as I have a mechanical background but only starting to get my head around the electrical side. I can see some advantages of indirect drive, proven components, no thrust on the motor, ratio's can be very easily changed, lifts the motor higher. The only disadvantage is power loss.  

Regarding correct prop size, on a previous heavy displacement sailboat fitted with a 30hp Yanmar the theoretical  hull speed was about 7..2 kts.  Full engine RPM flat out in calm water with no wind resulted in a wave forming at the transom and a noticeable squatting down in the stern. The engine was also loaded up and starting to blow black smoke. I believe that this boat had the optimum engine/propeller for it. The squatting down and stern wave is the boat trying to get up on the plane which is obviously not going to happen. Backing the throttle of 50% only reduced the speed to 5.5 kts.

The Nordic 17 based on a waterline lenght of 16 feet will have a theoretical  hull speed of about 5.1 kts.  I suspect the sweet spot for this hull will be around 4.5 kts.

On Mon, Jan 15, 2018 at 5:58 AM, Matthew Geier matthew@acfr..usyd.edu.au [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

I have 'electrifed' a similar Nordic double ender - a project that
probably inspired 'mryanqld'. These boats need very little power - I've
found that the 'sweet spot' cruising speed for my hull, the system is
running only at 1500w.. I can wind the power up more, but little extra
speed is gained for the extra power, the boat just starts to pull a
bigger wave behind it.

I'm using the orginal prop that was on the boat when it used to have a
5.7hp two cylinder, two stroke 'Blaxland'. I believe the prop is the one
that came with the original Blaxland engine and designed for the high
torque two stroke. Certainly back in the 'stink pot' era when the clutch
started to wear I'd had the clutch slip instead of the prop cavitating
when the boat was under load (lots of teens hanging of the back wanting
to be towed through the water!)

I direct drive a Perm 132, although when my Trojan's finally give up, I
may go to 48v and put a 2:1 reduction on it, the higher voltage will
lower the current and the heat losses. (But the new gearbox losses may
be higher than my current heat losses :-)

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Kind regards Mick 0414 264 312

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Kind regards Mick 0414 264 312

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Posted by: Michael Ryan <mryanqld@gmail.com>

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