Sunday, July 31, 2022

Re: [electricboats] How are you grounding your AC (shore power) and your 12 VDC subsystems?

I don't have an AC inverter on board and do not keep the boat at a marina, so when connected to the mains to charge the batteries, the boat is sitting on a trailer next to my house, so no stray earthing issues to worry about.
I don't remember if my charger is galvanically isolated or not.



On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 at 22:46, THOMAS VANDERMEULEN <tvinypsi@gmail.com> wrote:
Matthew:
Do you operate an electric boat with AC aboard?  If so, to what is your AC safety ground wire attached?  [How are you earthing the AC on your vessel?]
Thanks.
[-tv]

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Re: [electricboats] How are you grounding your AC (shore power) and your 12 VDC subsystems?

Thanks for link, Ryan.  I had joined in that discussion.  But my point with this new topic was not so much to start a theoretical discussion, but simply to ask what people are actually doing.  I suppose it's more of a survey then, than a discussion.
Your having addressed the question is much appreciated!
[-tv]
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Re: [electricboats] How are you grounding your AC (shore power) and your 12 VDC subsystems?

There was a very lengthy discussion on this topic a while back and honestly I don't feel it reached any clear conclusions, but all kinds of interesting info was shared:


I ended up leaving 48v DC floating/isolated and putting a fuse on both sides of the AC and grounding to a through-hull that is connected on the outside to a grounding plate. My zincs do seem to get used up very quickly, guy in the boatyard says that's because of a high number of other boats in the marina doing sketchy things, I have no idea. 

On Jul 31, 2022, at 05:46, THOMAS VANDERMEULEN <tvinypsi@gmail.com> wrote:

Matthew:
Do you operate an electric boat with AC aboard?  If so, to what is your AC safety ground wire attached?  [How are you earthing the AC on your vessel?]
Thanks.
[-tv]

Re: [electricboats] How are you grounding your AC (shore power) and your 12 VDC subsystems?

Matthew:
Do you operate an electric boat with AC aboard?  If so, to what is your AC safety ground wire attached?  [How are you earthing the AC on your vessel?]
Thanks.
[-tv]
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Saturday, July 30, 2022

Re: [electricboats] How are you grounding your AC (shore power) and your 12 VDC subsystems?

The subject of safety earthing of boat shore power connections will be subject to local electrical standards and is probably different in each country. In Australia, you are subject to AS3004.
I seem to recall an entire section on earthing (and the possibility of galvanic loops) in the standard. I went to look, but while my employer has access to all standards, I don't have the required DRM software on my computer to view more than the index pages.

So depending on your location, you may be subject to national or international electrical standards.

Interaction between the shore power safety earth and the earthing system employed on the boat is complicated and if you get it wrong, you just don't damage your boat, metal parts underwater on your neighbours can be damaged as well.

Definitely an area you should seek expert advice on.


On Sat, 30 Jul 2022 at 23:24, THOMAS VANDERMEULEN <tvinypsi@gmail.com> wrote:
A question to those of you who no longer have an ICE with altenator and therefore no engine negative bus for attaching a 12 VAC safety ground (green) wire to: where are you now connecting your AC safety ground wire?
Best practice seems to be to isolate our 48+ VDC propulsion system's electrical components; but are you grounding any non-current carrying components of your 48+ VDC system or of your 12 VDC boat and/or 12 VDC propulsion system control and monitoring sub-system?  If you are, to what ultimately are you connecting these ground lines?
I've been communicating with technical support at ABYC to get clarifications of their standard E-11, but I'm curious about what people are actually doing out there.
Thanks!
[-tv]
Thomas VanderMeulen
"Grace O'Malley"
Cape Dory 27
Montroe, MI

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Friday, July 29, 2022

[electricboats] How are you grounding your AC (shore power) and your 12 VDC subsystems?

A question to those of you who no longer have an ICE with altenator and therefore no engine negative bus for attaching a 12 VAC safety ground (green) wire to: where are you now connecting your AC safety ground wire?
Best practice seems to be to isolate our 48+ VDC propulsion system's electrical components; but are you grounding any non-current carrying components of your 48+ VDC system or of your 12 VDC boat and/or 12 VDC propulsion system control and monitoring sub-system?  If you are, to what ultimately are you connecting these ground lines?
I've been communicating with technical support at ABYC to get clarifications of their standard E-11, but I'm curious about what people are actually doing out there.
Thanks!
[-tv]
Thomas VanderMeulen
"Grace O'Malley"
Cape Dory 27
Montroe, MI
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Re: [electricboats] LifePo4 build questions

Overall I am very pleased with the setup and the weight savings. 

The distance and consumption above was at various speeds as I was cruising around mostly mapping bottom contours with the gps map feature in the Garmin sonar. 

Im sorry I can’t help with the question above about the foot control. My unit has a foot control but it is a backup to the wireless control and I have never plugged in the foot control. 

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Re: [electricboats] LifePo4 build questions

I had a chance to put some distance on my battery. A recorder gps track of 5.54 miles consumed about 31 amp hours of the 55 available. 



The cell voltages before recharging are pictured below. 

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Monday, July 18, 2022

[electricboats] Zapi Controller Parameter Questions

Hello, All:

I've got a Zapi SEM-1 Controller on my Duffy Electric boat, and I'm confused about some of the parameter settings for the controller, so I hope there are some knowledgeable controller people here.

I've got the Zapi handheld programming tool, so I can change the parameters as necessary. Duffy Electric has not been helpful in answering these questions, and I haven't been able to find anyone local with an understanding of some of the interactions of the parameters, so I'm hoping someone here can clue me in. I should also mention that the previous owner may have adjusted some of these parameters, so I'm trying to make sure they are optimal for the motor.


Some additional information - The motor is a 5 hp 48V DC motor with a max current rating of 110A and field current rating of 10A. I believe it's a shunt DC motor (with A1, A2, F1, F2 connections). The power source is a 48V 160Ah NMC battery.

Here are the definitions from the controller manual for the 4 critical parameters for which I have interest:

Maximum Current = Maximum Controller Current
Armature Nominal Current = Parameter fixes a limit for the armature current above which the field current is at least the nominal value, regardless of accelerator position
Weak Dropout = Parameter fixes a limit on the armature current above which field current is increased linearly up to nominal field current (in proportion to the armature current)
Field Nominal Current = Parameter fixes the minimum field nominal current when the potentiometer is between 0% and 60% without total conduction of the armature. Adjustment should be made with reference to the data on the motor label (the indication of nominal field current)

So, here are current parameter settings and questions:

Maximum Current = 100% (options of 82-100% in increments of 2%)
Armature Nominal Current = 54% of Max Current (options of 45-65% in increments of 2 or 3%)
Weak Dropout = 62% of Armature Nominal Current (options of 40-80% in increments of 4 or 5%)
Field Nominal Current = 10 A (as specified in the motor data; options of 7.5 to 13.1 A in increments of 0.5 or 0.6 A)

So, for me, the Maximum Current and Field Nominal Current parameters seem straightforward, but I'm confused by the Armature Nominal Current and especially the Weak Dropout parameters. Are the current settings for these parameters reasonable? What are the implications for the Weak Dropout parameter?

Thanks very much for any perspectives you can offer!
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Monday, July 11, 2022

Re: [electricboats] Flange coupler for Thunderstruct gear reduction

You would likely be better served with checking out General Propeller in Florida.

 

https://www.generalpropeller.com/inboard-shafts-and-couplings

Mike

 

Mike Gunning

Director of Sales

Electric Yacht

626 298 2262

855 339 2248 x 1

mike@electricyacht.com

https://electricyacht.com

 

From: electricboats@groups.io <electricboats@groups.io> On Behalf Of Michael Schiller via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, July 6, 2022 4:05 PM
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: Re: [electricboats] Flange coupler for Thunderstruct gear reduction

 

Hello

 

I was told that the couplers were sourced from Graingers.

 

Check their catalog.

 

Regards 

 

Capt. Mike



On Jul 6, 2565 BE, at 5:17 PM, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@pfeiffer.net> wrote:



Search for Buck Algonquin shaft coupler

I'll get you details when I am back home later.

Dan Pfeiffer



On 2022-07-06 1:14 pm, anton.slutsky@gmail.com wrote:

Thank you so much for the very useful reply!  Would you mind mentioning where do you get the actual 4"x1" driver couplers?  I've looked all over Amazon and internet and seems not easy to find a coupler that can take the torsion force.  Or is it easy to manufacture on a lathe?

Friday, July 8, 2022

Re: [electricboats] LifePo4 build questions

That's great I just got a 24v Newport
But the wires were cut short was thinking of using Anderson plugs and a fuse
May use a small 24v lipo or 8 bigger lipho4

But open to other suggestions
Thank you 

Ps also have a mini kota 24v that is broken thinking of putting a mppt controller on it

Psa Also one like yours but the foot control will only do speed and not left right any suggestions for that
Bought a new pedal but still the same



On Friday, July 8, 2022, 10:21:20 AM PDT, Skray775 <kelly@skraye.com> wrote:


The charger gives me individual cell numbers as I charge so I will have those and the milliamperes or amp hours replaced per cell. 

Re: [electricboats] LifePo4 build questions

The charger gives me individual cell numbers as I charge so I will have those and the milliamperes or amp hours replaced per cell. 

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Thursday, July 7, 2022

Re: [electricboats] LifePo4 build questions

Good to hear . . . congratulations!

Before you recharge, you may want to check/compare individual cell voltages.  This can give you an idea of how closely-matched the cells are capacity-wise.

(Now looking at the 'TR16 Coulometer' you're using for my own setup.)
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Re: [electricboats] LifePo4 build questions

I was final able to get out today. I tested the battery and everything worked great. Because I was also testing the gas motor I went to the river, not the electric only lake but I fished with the trolling motor for 5 hours an used approx. 8 amp hours. 😀. 

I installed the shunt meter at the front of the boat. 



I’ll confirm the amount used when I recharge  

Thank you all again for your help  

 

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Re: [electricboats] Flange coupler for Thunderstruct gear reduction

Thank you Darin!  I did consider the chain flexible coupler, but the existing 4" shaft adapter has a nice, beefy looking rubber flexible coupler from the old transmission.  Figure might as well try to reuse it and looking at videos how to remove a coupler, with my luck I'll damage the seal :)

Anton

On Thu, Jul 7, 2022 at 12:21 PM Darin <armyofpenguins@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Anton, 

I'm sure you've already considered this, but just in case: 

The chain coupler is a 'flexible' coupler, so if you ever have any small alignment issues as I did after changing motor mounts and again later after replacing the prop strut, you may find this flexibility useful.  Good luck!

Darin Christen
SV Serious Moonlight
Anacortes, WA

On Wed, Jul 6, 2022 at 2:46 PM <anton.slutsky@gmail.com> wrote:
thank you I found the Buck Algonquin site -- exactly what I need!

--
Best Regards,
Anton Slutsky, Ph.D.

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Re: [electricboats] Flange coupler for Thunderstruct gear reduction

Hi Anton, 

I'm sure you've already considered this, but just in case: 

The chain coupler is a 'flexible' coupler, so if you ever have any small alignment issues as I did after changing motor mounts and again later after replacing the prop strut, you may find this flexibility useful.  Good luck!

Darin Christen
SV Serious Moonlight
Anacortes, WA

On Wed, Jul 6, 2022 at 2:46 PM <anton.slutsky@gmail.com> wrote:
thank you I found the Buck Algonquin site -- exactly what I need!

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Wednesday, July 6, 2022

Re: [electricboats] Flange coupler for Thunderstruct gear reduction

Hello

I was told that the couplers were sourced from Graingers.

Check their catalog.

Regards 

Capt. Mike


On Jul 6, 2565 BE, at 5:17 PM, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@pfeiffer.net> wrote:



Search for Buck Algonquin shaft coupler

I'll get you details when I am back home later.

Dan Pfeiffer


On 2022-07-06 1:14 pm, anton.slutsky@gmail.com wrote:

Thank you so much for the very useful reply!  Would you mind mentioning where do you get the actual 4"x1" driver couplers?  I've looked all over Amazon and internet and seems not easy to find a coupler that can take the torsion force.  Or is it easy to manufacture on a lathe?

Re: [electricboats] Flange coupler for Thunderstruct gear reduction

thank you I found the Buck Algonquin site -- exactly what I need!
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Re: [electricboats] Flange coupler for Thunderstruct gear reduction

Search for Buck Algonquin shaft coupler

I'll get you details when I am back home later.

Dan Pfeiffer


On 2022-07-06 1:14 pm, anton.slutsky@gmail.com wrote:

Thank you so much for the very useful reply!  Would you mind mentioning where do you get the actual 4"x1" driver couplers?  I've looked all over Amazon and internet and seems not easy to find a coupler that can take the torsion force.  Or is it easy to manufacture on a lathe?

Re: [electricboats] Sea Bob Scooter

I’d look at a pod-type motor - already water proof. Something like a Torqeedo? If you go for 48v, the 2,500 watt motor needs about 50A - easy to deal with. The motor should not be inside the watertight shell - needs the water flow for cooling.  Figure out how long you want to go and do the math to determine battery size - a 70 AH/48v/3,360wH battery will give you over an hour at full throttle with a 2,500w motor. Less expensive to build your own using prismatic cells such as Winston, Sinopoly or CALB. A Daly BMS from AliExpress will handle your small motor OK. 
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Re: [electricboats] Solar charging

A other option may be something like a portable solar generator and the foldable panels that go with them. That could do double duty outside your boat as well - say if you are camping by boat. Less efficient than a dedicated system but sometimes a thing that gets multiple uses is more efficient financially.  Jackery and Goal Zero are brands that I've had success with. 

On Jul 6, 2022, at 11:47, Glenn Holland <gholland1@nc.rr.com> wrote:



Thanks guys…I'm on it.  Glenn

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: fred jelich
Sent: Wednesday, July 6, 2022 1:42 PM
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: Re: [electricboats] Solar charging

 

Use a solar panel and a boost controller. They are available to charge 36 or 48 volts.  I am using two 100w panels into a boost controller to charge my 48v battery pack.

 

On Wed, Jul 6, 2022, 12:30 PM Glenn Holland <gholland1@nc.rr.com> wrote:

OK friends, here's the deal.  I have a 36v.  trolling motor as aux. propulsion on my HA18, that's a catboat.  I power it with a 36v lit ion rechargeable bike battery. Works good.  I'm trying to be able to put a little solar juice in it while underway.  What's the simplest way to do that?  

thanks,

Glenn/NC

 

Re: [electricboats] Solar charging

Thanks guys…I'm on it.  Glenn

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: fred jelich
Sent: Wednesday, July 6, 2022 1:42 PM
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: Re: [electricboats] Solar charging

 

Use a solar panel and a boost controller. They are available to charge 36 or 48 volts.  I am using two 100w panels into a boost controller to charge my 48v battery pack.

 

On Wed, Jul 6, 2022, 12:30 PM Glenn Holland <gholland1@nc.rr.com> wrote:

OK friends, here's the deal.  I have a 36v.  trolling motor as aux. propulsion on my HA18, that's a catboat.  I power it with a 36v lit ion rechargeable bike battery. Works good.  I'm trying to be able to put a little solar juice in it while underway.  What's the simplest way to do that?  

thanks,

Glenn/NC

 

Re: [electricboats] Flange coupler for Thunderstruct gear reduction

Miles Weber
Tel: (425) 355-3669 PYI Inc.
Fax: (425) 355-3661 12532 Beverly Park Road
Lynnwood, WA 98087
www.pyiinc.com

John Winterrowd 702 343 1492 4.2.1. Email Disclaimer NOTICE: The information contained in this electronic transmission is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. ANY DISTRIBUTION OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS PROHIBITED, except by the intended recipient. Attempts to intercept this message are in violation of 18 U.S.C. 2511(1) of the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, which subjects the interceptor to fines, imprisonment and/or civil damages. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete it and notify me.

On Wednesday, July 6, 2022, 02:14:12 PM EDT, <anton.slutsky@gmail.com> wrote:


Thank you so much for the very useful reply!  Would you mind mentioning where do you get the actual 4"x1" driver couplers?  I've looked all over Amazon and internet and seems not easy to find a coupler that can take the torsion force.  Or is it easy to manufacture on a lathe?
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Re: [electricboats] Flange coupler for Thunderstruct gear reduction

Thank you so much for the very useful reply!  Would you mind mentioning where do you get the actual 4"x1" driver couplers?  I've looked all over Amazon and internet and seems not easy to find a coupler that can take the torsion force.  Or is it easy to manufacture on a lathe?
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Re: [electricboats] Solar charging

Use a solar panel and a boost controller. They are available to charge 36 or 48 volts.  I am using two 100w panels into a boost controller to charge my 48v battery pack.

On Wed, Jul 6, 2022, 12:30 PM Glenn Holland <gholland1@nc.rr.com> wrote:
OK friends, here's the deal.  I have a 36v.  trolling motor as aux. propulsion on my HA18, that's a catboat.  I power it with a 36v lit ion rechargeable bike battery. Works good.  I'm trying to be able to put a little solar juice in it while underway.  What's the simplest way to do that?  
thanks,
Glenn/NC

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Re: [electricboats] Solar charging

Look into golf cart charging systems.  Plug and play, so to speak.  Power Film solar is one I know of.


On Jul 6, 2022, at 1:30 PM, Glenn Holland <gholland1@nc.rr.com> wrote:

OK friends, here's the deal.  I have a 36v.  trolling motor as aux. propulsion on my HA18, that's a catboat.  I power it with a 36v lit ion rechargeable bike battery. Works good.  I'm trying to be able to put a little solar juice in it while underway.  What's the simplest way to do that?  
thanks,
Glenn/NC

Re: [electricboats] Solar charging

Keep me posted. Have a 48 V Elco ad want to solar charge too
captnlen
lake placid fl


On Wed, Jul 6, 2022 at 1:30 PM Glenn Holland <gholland1@nc.rr.com> wrote:
OK friends, here's the deal.  I have a 36v.  trolling motor as aux. propulsion on my HA18, that's a catboat.  I power it with a 36v lit ion rechargeable bike battery. Works good.  I'm trying to be able to put a little solar juice in it while underway.  What's the simplest way to do that?  
thanks,
Glenn/NC

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[electricboats] Solar charging

OK friends, here's the deal.  I have a 36v.  trolling motor as aux. propulsion on my HA18, that's a catboat.  I power it with a 36v lit ion rechargeable bike battery. Works good.  I'm trying to be able to put a little solar juice in it while underway.  What's the simplest way to do that?  
thanks,
Glenn/NC

[electricboats] Sea Bob Scooter

There's a couple of these cool water scooters in my area. Looks like fun!
https://seabob.com/en/dealer-direct-sales-and-price-list/

But they start at $12k, out of my price range. 2.5 - 4.5 Kw motors, able to go down to 120 feet. I can build a reasonable body out of epoxy and carbon fiber. I would like to maybe go down to 20 feet, not 140.

Any ideas on motors, batteries (they're using cylindrical) and waterproofing? Think it can be done for $4k or less?
Jerry Barth

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Re: [electricboats] Flange coupler for Thunderstruct gear reduction

When I did ours, I had to order stepped keyways. The sprockets and chains offer more strength than the flex couplers, mine were cracked from age and stress.
First mark the position of your shaft and support it in place. I used some webbing and supported it from above. Use a three-jaw puller to remove old coupler. I used a wood clamp on my shaft to reduce the slide. I then used a sand hammer to pop the chain hubs and keyways onto the shafts. It's a juggling act for sure. It worked, my install was in the water, I was afraid of running the props into the rudders.

John
S/V Retreat Time

John Winterrowd 702 343 1492 4.2.1. Email Disclaimer NOTICE: The information contained in this electronic transmission is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. ANY DISTRIBUTION OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS PROHIBITED, except by the intended recipient. Attempts to intercept this message are in violation of 18 U.S.C. 2511(1) of the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, which subjects the interceptor to fines, imprisonment and/or civil damages. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete it and notify me.

On Wednesday, July 6, 2022, 11:05:12 AM EDT, <anton.slutsky@gmail.com> wrote:


Hello group,

New here, question for the group.  Converting a Cal 2-29 to electric using Thunderstruck kits.  The kits come with a chain coupler, but was wondering if anyone had any experience using a flange coupler instead?  Not that I mind pulling the current coupler off the shaft, but the boat is in the water and if I can avoid tugging and banging on the shaft, would definitely be better I think :-).  

 

Would anyone had any experience with Thunderstruck kits and flange couplers?

 

TIA!

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Re: [electricboats] Flange coupler for Thunderstruct gear reduction

The Thunderstruck kit has a 1" shaft.  I think it has a standard keyway.  Fitting a standard flange should not be a problem.  But, there are some caveats. 

Flanges come with the shaft bore slightly under-sized and are fit to the shaft using a lathe.  Simple job for a machine shop.  They need the coupler and the shaft to do the fitting.  It would also be worthwhile to face the coupler to the shaft which means mounting the coupler then cutting the face of the flange to make it truly perpendicular to the shaft.  Another simple job for a machine shop. 

The flange on your prop shaft has a boss on it that fits into a counterbore on the face of the transmission shaft coupler.  This locates the coupler laterally.  If you buy a coupler to put on the thunderstruck shaft it will also have that boss.  That needs to be removed and the counterbore needs to be cut into the face of the flange to fit the boss on your prop shaft coupler. This is what I did in my installation.  I didn't use the Thunderstruck unit but my process was analogous.  There are some photos here:
http://dan.pfeiffer.net/10m/electric_drive_unit.htm

You may be able to get a flange with the counterbore already in it.  I couldn't find that.  You may have more luck.  But I have a lathe and modifying the flange was an easy option for me. 

You can get that flange off your prop shaft with a puller.  A steering wheel puller would probably work or a medium sized three to two armed puller.    If it is a proper snug-slip-fit you can put it back on with  mallet with the prop shaft in place if there is room to work. 




Dan Pfeiffer



On 2022-07-06 9:45 am, anton.slutsky@gmail.com wrote:

Hello group,

New here, question for the group.  Converting a Cal 2-29 to electric using Thunderstruck kits.  The kits come with a chain coupler, but was wondering if anyone had any experience using a flange coupler instead?  Not that I mind pulling the current coupler off the shaft, but the boat is in the water and if I can avoid tugging and banging on the shaft, would definitely be better I think :-).  


Would anyone had any experience with Thunderstruck kits and flange couplers?


TIA!

[electricboats] Flange coupler for Thunderstruct gear reduction

Hello group,

New here, question for the group.  Converting a Cal 2-29 to electric using Thunderstruck kits.  The kits come with a chain coupler, but was wondering if anyone had any experience using a flange coupler instead?  Not that I mind pulling the current coupler off the shaft, but the boat is in the water and if I can avoid tugging and banging on the shaft, would definitely be better I think :-).  

 

Would anyone had any experience with Thunderstruck kits and flange couplers?

 

TIA!

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