T-Pain Is On A Boat: February 2022

Monday, February 21, 2022

[electricboats] Worldwide Classic Boat Show

The Worldwide Classic Boat Show is going on this week - online A lot of interesting topics and boats are being covered. One that caught my eye that may be of interest to this group is:

Electric Propulsion & Solar Cruising – The Future is Now
Wednesday - Feb 23rd - 7:00pm EST in the U.S. (12:00 Midnight GMT/UTC)

The show is at:

https://classicboatshow.com/

You must register and get a 'ticket' to attend. But I think the 'tickets' are free, mine was.

It was worth checking in just to look through the boat pictures, especially on a cold winter night.

-steveS

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Saturday, February 19, 2022

Re: [electricboats] Bolt hole tolerance when laser cutting 1/2 inch stainless steel

Thank you, Myles! I'm mostly worried about the constellation of holes. So, based on your feedback, I went with a slightly larger tolerance, and was able to get access to a drill press in case they need to made bigger.

:-)

Steve

---- On Mon, 07 Feb 2022 09:59:41 -0800 Myles Twete <matwete@comcast.net> wrote ----

Caveat: I am an engineer, but not mechanical.
Having said that, I've done some mechanical engineering designs and chosen hole sizes on parts during a couple of my contracts.
Realize that these are interfaces.
And sure, with single holes, you might get away with a close or tight tolerance for that each hole.
But even then, the fastener choice matters and perhaps a heavily plated, poorly toleranced or non-standard bolt gets spec'd and won't fit the hole that standard bolts would.
And there's a big difference between single, non-dependent holes vs a constellation of holes as you are defining for mounting the motor to the plate. And for that part of your design, you should consult the motor manufacturer's mechanical drawing for the motor. And if that does not inform as to spacing tolerances for the motor holes, then ask them. For sure, when you are dealing with a constellation of dependent holes, your hole diameters will need to be at least a little bit larger to accommodate the worst case sum of the tolerances of (1) motor hole spacing, (2) your plates matching hole spacing, (3) other factors?

In case this helps….

From: electricboats@groups.io [mailto:electricboats@groups.io] On Behalf Of Steven Borg
Sent: Sunday, February 6, 2022 5:37 PM
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: [electricboats] Bolt hole tolerance when laser cutting 1/2 inch stainless steel

Progress continues on the 55' electric motor conversion.

Next question: When laser cutting my 1/2" stainless steel plate for the motor mount (or other parts), what hole tolerance should I consider?

I get different answers when I look online: Clearance Hole Chart (amesweb.info)
suggests that for a 1/2" bolt a 'close' fit I should be between .531 and .538, and 'loose' fit .609 and .625 with 'normal' fit in between.

But other sites are more prescriptive, telling me that I should use .5156 for a tight fit and .5312 for a loose fit. (basically 1/64" clearance for tight, and 1/32" clearance for loose. Clearance Hole Size for Bolts and Screws (Imperial) - The Engineer's Bible (engineersbible.com)

And, I've heard people say just always add 1/16" to nearly every size bolt hole.

Given SendCutSend and everyone else seems to have a tolerance of +/- .005", I'm struggling to understand what kind of fit I should go for. I'd hate to have a motor plate whose 4 support holes were just far enough off to not be able to mount the motor... :-O

Hoping there are a few folks who've been through this before!

:-)
Steve

Thursday, February 17, 2022

Re: [electricboats] Sourcing Electric Outboards

Hi Jeff,

Can you share details of the cells directly to me at sandith@navgathi.com

Also the pricing.

Bregards,

From: electricboats@groups.io <electricboats@groups.io> on behalf of Jeff LaCoursiere via groups.io <jeff=stratustalk.com@groups.io>
Date: Thursday, 17 February 2022 at 6:33 PM
To: electricboats@groups.io <electricboats@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [electricboats] Sourcing Electric Outboards

Hi Sandath,

Everything is hard to get right now, sadly. We have some 280AH cells in stock if you would like to work with them - warehouse in Chicago.

Except THIS week, we are in Miami! Hope some of you have made it to the boat show, come see is in the Harbor Pavilion, booth HP159!

Cheers,

Jeff LaCoursiere
AquaSparc - www.aquasparc.com
s/v Angels Quest, USVI

On 2/16/22 10:07, Sandith Thandasherry wrote:

Hi,

Can someone suggest suitable source for LFP prismatic cells? I am seeing stockout with many suppliers.

We were experimenting with CALB 72 Ah cells.

Bregards,

From: electricboats@groups.io <electricboats@groups.io> on behalf of Bruce via groups.io <b.d.mason=cox.net@groups.io>
Date: Wednesday, 16 February 2022 at 5:31 AM
To: electricboats@groups.io <electricboats@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [electricboats] Sourcing Electric Outboards

Yes, like the Torqeedos, the locking pin is accessed under the battery. A lame design, if effective and cheap. There are work arounds.

On February 15, 2022 at 5:38 PM Walter Pearson <pearson1854@comcast.net> wrote:

I do understand the integral battery on the Spirit. Do you or others with these motors know if this battery can be used remotely using their power and communication cables? The literature is not clear on that and stateside distributor has not responded. If I had to go to the E-series batteries for remote operation, it loses some of its appeal.
Another drawback might be that the battery has to be removed in order to install the steering lock pin. Am I reading that correctly?

Jeff LaCoursiere
STRATUSTALK, INC. / CTO

Phone:	+1 703.496.4990 x108
Mobile:	+1 815.546.6599
Email:	jeff@stratustalk.com
Website:	https://www.stratustalk.com
Address:	One Freedom Square 13th Floor Reston, VA 20190

--
Jeff LaCoursiere
s/v Angels Quest
St Thomas USVI

Re: [electricboats] Sourcing Electric Outboards

On 2/16/22 10:07, Sandith Thandasherry wrote:

Hi,

Can someone suggest suitable source for LFP prismatic cells? I am seeing stockout with many suppliers.

We were experimenting with CALB 72 Ah cells.

Bregards,

From: electricboats@groups.io <electricboats@groups.io> on behalf of Bruce via groups.io <b.d.mason=cox.net@groups.io>
Date: Wednesday, 16 February 2022 at 5:31 AM
To: electricboats@groups.io <electricboats@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [electricboats] Sourcing Electric Outboards

Yes, like the Torqeedos, the locking pin is accessed under the battery. A lame design, if effective and cheap. There are work arounds.

On February 15, 2022 at 5:38 PM Walter Pearson <pearson1854@comcast.net> wrote:

I do understand the integral battery on the Spirit. Do you or others with these motors know if this battery can be used remotely using their power and communication cables? The literature is not clear on that and stateside distributor has not responded. If I had to go to the E-series batteries for remote operation, it loses some of its appeal.
Another drawback might be that the battery has to be removed in order to install the steering lock pin. Am I reading that correctly?

Jeff LaCoursiere
STRATUSTALK, INC. / CTO

Phone:	+1 703.496.4990 x108
Mobile:	+1 815.546.6599
Email:	jeff@stratustalk.com
Website:	https://www.stratustalk.com
Address:	One Freedom Square 13th Floor Reston, VA 20190

Wednesday, February 16, 2022

Re: [electricboats] Sourcing Electric Outboards

Sandith,

I'm going to go with a 48v golf cart battery like big battery.com offers. $699 for 50 ah, Out of stock of course. That one is lion, the LFP are about $200 more.

Jerry Barth

Sent from my Sprint Tablet.

-------- Original message --------

From: Sandith Thandasherry <sandith@navgathi.com>

Date: 2/16/22 12:09 PM (GMT-04:00)

To: electricboats@groups.io

Subject: Re: [electricboats] Sourcing Electric Outboards

Hi,

Can someone suggest suitable source for LFP prismatic cells? I am seeing stockout with many suppliers.

We were experimenting with CALB 72 Ah cells.

Bregards,

From: electricboats@groups.io <electricboats@groups.io> on behalf of Bruce via groups.io <b.d.mason=cox.net@groups.io>
Date: Wednesday, 16 February 2022 at 5:31 AM
To: electricboats@groups.io <electricboats@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [electricboats] Sourcing Electric Outboards

Yes, like the Torqeedos, the locking pin is accessed under the battery. A lame design, if effective and cheap. There are work arounds.

On February 15, 2022 at 5:38 PM Walter Pearson <pearson1854@comcast.net> wrote:

I do understand the integral battery on the Spirit. Do you or others with these motors know if this battery can be used remotely using their power and communication cables? The literature is not clear on that and stateside distributor has not responded. If I had to go to the E-series batteries for remote operation, it loses some of its appeal.
Another drawback might be that the battery has to be removed in order to install the steering lock pin. Am I reading that correctly?

Re: [electricboats] Sourcing Electric Outboards

Hi,

Can someone suggest suitable source for LFP prismatic cells? I am seeing stockout with many suppliers.

We were experimenting with CALB 72 Ah cells.

Bregards,

Yes, like the Torqeedos, the locking pin is accessed under the battery. A lame design, if effective and cheap. There are work arounds.

On February 15, 2022 at 5:38 PM Walter Pearson <pearson1854@comcast.net> wrote:

I do understand the integral battery on the Spirit. Do you or others with these motors know if this battery can be used remotely using their power and communication cables? The literature is not clear on that and stateside distributor has not responded. If I had to go to the E-series batteries for remote operation, it loses some of its appeal.
Another drawback might be that the battery has to be removed in order to install the steering lock pin. Am I reading that correctly?

Tuesday, February 15, 2022

Re: [electricboats] Sourcing Electric Outboards

Yes, like the Torqeedos, the locking pin is accessed under the battery. A lame design, if effective and cheap. There are work arounds.

On February 15, 2022 at 5:38 PM Walter Pearson <pearson1854@comcast.net> wrote:

I do understand the integral battery on the Spirit. Do you or others with these motors know if this battery can be used remotely using their power and communication cables? The literature is not clear on that and stateside distributor has not responded. If I had to go to the E-series batteries for remote operation, it loses some of its appeal.
Another drawback might be that the battery has to be removed in order to install the steering lock pin. Am I reading that correctly?

Re: [electricboats] Sourcing Electric Outboards

I have the cowling too.

/
Greg DeCowsky ☠
Sent from my AyePhone®

> On Feb 15, 2022, at 18:42, Greg DeCowsky via groups.io <greg.decowsky=me.com@groups.io> wrote:
>
> Yes, for the Spirit 1.0 EVO anyway. I will have the battery in the lazarette (not sure offhand how long the cable is). Also a remote controller (no tiller) with redundant control connections by cable and Bluetooth. We tried it out when the vendor delivered the motor.
>
>
> /
> Greg DeCowsky ☠
> Sent from my AyePhone®
>
>
>
>

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Re: [electricboats] Sourcing Electric Outboards

Yes, for the Spirit 1.0 EVO anyway. I will have the battery in the lazarette (not sure offhand how long the cable is). Also a remote controller (no tiller) with redundant control connections by cable and Bluetooth. We tried it out when the vendor delivered the motor.

/
Greg DeCowsky ☠
Sent from my AyePhone®

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Re: [electricboats] Sourcing Electric Outboards

"Plus" model *of* Spirit 1.0.

Note their batteries are 'recommended'. So you can use your own 48V-nominal battery.

I can't help with the steering lock pin question.

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Re: [electricboats] Sourcing Electric Outboards

Looks like they have an optional cowling to replace the battery, when using an external battery:

https://www.epropulsion.com/post/introducing-spirit-1-plus/

Spirit 1.0 Plus: 25% More Battery Capacity & 48V Voltage - ePropulsion

48V Operating Voltage. Spirit 1.0 Plus works at 48V, while Spirit 1.0 works at 40V. The 48V operating voltage allows Spirit 1.0 Plus to work with an external battery to extend the range. ePropulsion original E-Series LFP batteries are recommended.

www.epropulsion.com

This is on the "Plus" model if Spirit 1.0.

-Bobkart

From: electricboats@groups.io <electricboats@groups.io> on behalf of Walter Pearson <pearson1854@comcast.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2022 2:38 PM
To: electricboats@groups.io <electricboats@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [electricboats] Sourcing Electric Outboards

I do understand the integral battery on the Spirit. Do you or others with these motors know if this battery can be used remotely using their power and communication cables? The literature is not clear on that and stateside distributor has not responded. If I had to go to the E-series batteries for remote operation, it loses some of its appeal.
Another drawback might be that the battery has to be removed in order to install the steering lock pin. Am I reading that correctly?

Re: [electricboats] Sourcing Electric Outboards

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Saturday, February 12, 2022

Re: [electricboats] Sourcing Electric Outboards

And it floats! The Spirit battery, that is. Or so they tell me. I'm not brave enough to try it.

Greg DeCowsky ☠

Sent from my AyePhone®

On Feb 12, 2022, at 14:52, Kai Rabenstein via groups.io <k.rabenstein=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:

The Spirit runs off its own proprietary battery pack which can be charged from either 12V DC or 110/220V AC sources.

Kai

On 12 Feb 2022, at 19:15, Walter Pearson <pearson1854@comcast.net> wrote:

Thanks for the data - those are really good numbers. I agree that the performance of the Spirit 1.0 would fit my needs. Just have to decide what the 48V systems will do to my overall electrical scheme.

Re: [electricboats] Sourcing Electric Outboards

The Spirit runs off its own proprietary battery pack which can be charged from either 12V DC or 110/220V AC sources.

Kai

On 12 Feb 2022, at 19:15, Walter Pearson <pearson1854@comcast.net> wrote:

Thanks for the data - those are really good numbers. I agree that the performance of the Spirit 1.0 would fit my needs. Just have to decide what the 48V systems will do to my overall electrical scheme.

Re: [electricboats] Sourcing Electric Outboards

Thanks for the data - those are really good numbers. I agree that the performance of the Spirit 1.0 would fit my needs. Just have to decide what the 48V systems will do to my overall electrical scheme.

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Thursday, February 10, 2022

Re: [electricboats] Sourcing Electric Outboards

Thanks to all for input. I had seen much of your referenced websites, but not all. Will have to look further. I was trying to keep with my battery max of 24V, but may have to rethink things as there are certainly more options for 48V. It would likely mean going to Li and the other related components. Two 12V AGMs now equal the same weight as the lead ingot ballast taken out. (No more space available and don't want more weight for additional AGMs).
The Golden L-series has a lot of what I need. I do need remote control as I have converted to wheel steering and it's good to be able to pull the pod up under sail. My question with Golden motors is they state "3 Speed". Does this indicate that they are not true PWM controlled? Anyone with speed vs. watt data for these?
My Minn-Kota gets me 2.4 knots with 212 watts. I can get back to the marina with confidence when the wind dies, but it's that extra thrust I would like if I have to fight chop getting past the break-wall when it's blowing.

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Re: [electricboats] Sourcing Electric Outboards

I recently purchased the ePropulsion Spirit 1.0 for my 23' Santana. It weighs north of 3000 lbs with the water ballast. The boat sits in a marina in the California Delta (near Stockton) year round. The Spirit will push the boat at about 4.5 knots wide open and can run a little over an hour at that speed. It will go all day if I back it down to 2.5 knots. For getting in and out of the marina, lazying around the delta or just as an assist when the wind gets light it is amazing. One of my sailing buddies owns the same model for his Welsford Navigator and it is more than enough motor for a boat that size. Having a friend with the same model is a bonus as we can share batteries which doubles the range for longer trips.

Some data we've collected:
Santana 2023C, 23', 3500 lbs (boat + people + gear)
Knots/Runtime (hours)
4.5 / 1
3.5 / 3
2.6 / 5.2
2.2 / 10

Welsford Navigator, 14', 800 lbs (boat + people + gear)
Knots/Runtime (hours)
4.8 / 1
4.4 / 1.5
4.1 / 2.2
3.4 / 4.2
2.4 / 10

Back in December I took the Santana out in zero wind, trolled for 3 hours at 2 knots in a vain attempt to catch a striped bass, then ran wide open about 20 minutes back to the marina and still had 40% battery remaining. In January we went out on a light wind day and motor sailed for several hours, using the spirit when the wind died. Again, powered up to wide open at the end for a quick run back to the marina with just under half the battery left. I have found that the ease of using an electric outboard means I am willing to sail more as I can use it as a silent assist. The outboard is so quiet that loafing along at 2-3 knots is completely quiet and relaxing.

One of my other sailing buddies has an older Torqeedo and it has a high pitched whine when running at higher speeds that I personally find annoying. That may not be true of the newer models. However, I would take that any day over a gas powered outboard.

I would think that for the Mariner something the size of the Spirit 1.0 or similar Torqeedo would be plenty unless you want to motor all day at hull speed. Even then it would be cheaper to buy an extra battery than purchase the next step up from either manufacturer.

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Re: [electricboats] Sourcing Electric Outboards

I have had great results from my Navy 6. Mine was out in the sun all day every day for two years, so there were two issues from that.

1. Add a sleeve over the unit wires for UV protection.

2. The plastic over the display on the throttle frosted up, also from UV. I would need to replace that before using it again to see the screen, but it all still works.

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Re: [electricboats] Sourcing Electric Outboards

Hi Walter - Here's a good place to start looking at all that is available:

https://plugboats.com/electric-outboards-less-than-5-kw/
https://plugboats.com/electric-outboards-more-than-5kw/

Jeff

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Re: [electricboats] Sourcing Electric Outboards

I got the ePropulsion Spirit 1.0 EVO for my 15' sailing coble. Have not had either the boat or the motor in the water yet but it seems like a well designed and engineered unit. Great customer service from the dealer, Annapolis Hybrid Marine. Supply chain issues on a few of the accessories, but I got the motor pretty promptly. It has better numbers than the equivalent Torqeedo and fit right into my well. I got the remote controller instead of the tiller control, takes up less space in the cockpit, and the boat already has a tiller.

/
Greg DeCowsky ☠
Sent from my AyePhone®

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Re: [electricboats] Sourcing Electric Outboards

Golden Motors makes BLDC electric outboards.

https://www.goldenmotor.com/

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Wednesday, February 9, 2022

Re: [electricboats] Sourcing Electric Outboards

Hi Walter - the Cruise 2.0 has now been superceded by a 3kW model as Torqeedo responds to the threat posed by the rise of ePropulsion. Personally I have ordered the new Slovenian Remigo One which is comparable to the 1kW Travel 1103/Spirit models but stands out on account of its universal shaft length (covers short to long/15 to 30 inch by a sliding mechanism) which allows dual use for both dinghy and day sailer. Check it out …

Kai

On 10 Feb 2022, at 05:31, simon gabbott <simong1881@gmail.com> wrote:

Have you considered the E-Propulsion ?

On Wed, 9 Feb 2022 at 19:00, Walter Pearson <pearson1854@comcast.net> wrote:
My plan to upgrade from a Minn-Kota trolling motor to a Torqeedo Cruise 2.0 was stymied last year because they were out of stock - reportedly due to supply chain issues. Now I find that model has been discontinued. Perhaps their plan to discontinue had an effect on those meager inventories. Websites of two companies in Indonesia still show availability, but I have not been able to confirm. Even with shipping, their price is reasonable, but delivery and support would be concerns.

Other options include Elco 5.0 (24V version), Newport 23M1000201, or modify a 24V pod to operate on an outboard bracket. All have pros and cons - and I see mostly the latter. A good deal more weight and a lot more money to get not a whole lot more pounds of thrust. Anyone have input as to where to look next? Any cautions for dealing with Rezeki Marine or Glodak in Indonesia for a Cruise 2.0?

Particulars: O'day Mariner, 19', approx. 1500# displacement, marina berth with dock power, freshwater, mostly local daysailing, but considering trailering to other locales where there might be more motoring.

Re: [electricboats] Sourcing Electric Outboards

Have you considered the E-Propulsion ?

On Wed, 9 Feb 2022 at 19:00, Walter Pearson <pearson1854@comcast.net> wrote:

My plan to upgrade from a Minn-Kota trolling motor to a Torqeedo Cruise 2.0 was stymied last year because they were out of stock - reportedly due to supply chain issues. Now I find that model has been discontinued. Perhaps their plan to discontinue had an effect on those meager inventories. Websites of two companies in Indonesia still show availability, but I have not been able to confirm. Even with shipping, their price is reasonable, but delivery and support would be concerns.

Other options include Elco 5.0 (24V version), Newport 23M1000201, or modify a 24V pod to operate on an outboard bracket. All have pros and cons - and I see mostly the latter. A good deal more weight and a lot more money to get not a whole lot more pounds of thrust. Anyone have input as to where to look next? Any cautions for dealing with Rezeki Marine or Glodak in Indonesia for a Cruise 2.0?

Particulars: O'day Mariner, 19', approx. 1500# displacement, marina berth with dock power, freshwater, mostly local daysailing, but considering trailering to other locales where there might be more motoring.

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Re: [electricboats] Sourcing Electric Outboards

I've had good success with the Navy 6.0 Evo on my five-meter power cat. They make a 3kW version:

https://www.epropulsion.com/navy/

Navy Series Electric Outboard Motor - ePropulsion

Navy Series is the backbone of ePropulsion electric outboard motors. It provides efficient and clean power for aluminum fishing boats, dinghies, daysailers and cruising sailboats, suitable for saltwater and freshwater.

www.epropulsion.com

Not sure on availability where you are.

Another option might be the Golden Motor EZ-S06.

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Re: [electricboats] Sourcing Electric Outboards

I've had good success with the Navy 6.0 Evo on my five-meter power cat. They make a 3kW version:

https://www.epropulsion.com/navy/

Navy Series Electric Outboard Motor - ePropulsion

www.epropulsion.com

Not sure on availability where you are.

Another option might be the Golden Motor EZ-S06.

-Bobkart

From: electricboats@groups.io <electricboats@groups.io> on behalf of Walter Pearson <pearson1854@comcast.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 9, 2022 7:00 PM
To: electricboats@groups.io <electricboats@groups.io>
Subject: [electricboats] Sourcing Electric Outboards

My plan to upgrade from a Minn-Kota trolling motor to a Torqeedo Cruise 2.0 was stymied last year because they were out of stock - reportedly due to supply chain issues. Now I find that model has been discontinued. Perhaps their plan to discontinue had an effect on those meager inventories. Websites of two companies in Indonesia still show availability, but I have not been able to confirm. Even with shipping, their price is reasonable, but delivery and support would be concerns.

Other options include Elco 5.0 (24V version), Newport 23M1000201, or modify a 24V pod to operate on an outboard bracket. All have pros and cons - and I see mostly the latter. A good deal more weight and a lot more money to get not a whole lot more pounds of thrust. Anyone have input as to where to look next? Any cautions for dealing with Rezeki Marine or Glodak in Indonesia for a Cruise 2.0?

Particulars: O'day Mariner, 19', approx. 1500# displacement, marina berth with dock power, freshwater, mostly local daysailing, but considering trailering to other locales where there might be more motoring.

[electricboats] Sourcing Electric Outboards

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Monday, February 7, 2022

Re: [electricboats] Bolt hole tolerance when laser cutting 1/2 inch stainless steel

Forgive me if this was covered in a previous thread.

I assume this will be a belt/pulley setup? If so what will allow belt tension adjustment? I like to use vertical slots as opposed to holes. This allows for belt tension adjustment and potentially experimenting with different reduction ratio's.

Matt Foley

Sunlight Conversions

Perpetual Energy, LLC

201-914-0466

sunlightconversions.com

instagram.com/sunlightconversions/

youtube/sunlightconversions

On Monday, February 7, 2022, 01:06:18 PM EST, Myles Twete <matwete@comcast.net> wrote:

Note also: Many (most?) motors have a face with a step. This is useful in that your plate can have a hogged out section that mates with that step such that the motor's XY location gets fixed by that interface and not your bolt pattern. At that point, the bolt holes can be fairly loose since they are for the most part merely pulling the motor tight against the plate and the plate friction and that step interface keep the motor secure. Of course the bolts also keep the motor from rotating on the plate by their being hole-aligned with the motor holes and bolts going thru them.

From: electricboats@groups.io [mailto:electricboats@groups.io] On Behalf Of Myles Twete
Sent: Monday, February 7, 2022 10:00 AM
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: Re: [electricboats] Bolt hole tolerance when laser cutting 1/2 inch stainless steel

Caveat: I am an engineer, but not mechanical.

Having said that, I've done some mechanical engineering designs and chosen hole sizes on parts during a couple of my contracts.

Realize that these are interfaces.

And sure, with single holes, you might get away with a close or tight tolerance for that each hole.

But even then, the fastener choice matters and perhaps a heavily plated, poorly toleranced or non-standard bolt gets spec'd and won't fit the hole that standard bolts would.

And there's a big difference between single, non-dependent holes vs a constellation of holes as you are defining for mounting the motor to the plate. And for that part of your design, you should consult the motor manufacturer's mechanical drawing for the motor. And if that does not inform as to spacing tolerances for the motor holes, then ask them. For sure, when you are dealing with a constellation of dependent holes, your hole diameters will need to be at least a little bit larger to accommodate the worst case sum of the tolerances of (1) motor hole spacing, (2) your plates matching hole spacing, (3) other factors?

In case this helps….

From: electricboats@groups.io [mailto:electricboats@groups.io] On Behalf Of Steven Borg
Sent: Sunday, February 6, 2022 5:37 PM
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: [electricboats] Bolt hole tolerance when laser cutting 1/2 inch stainless steel

Progress continues on the 55' electric motor conversion.

Next question: When laser cutting my 1/2" stainless steel plate for the motor mount (or other parts), what hole tolerance should I consider?

I get different answers when I look online: Clearance Hole Chart (amesweb.info)
suggests that for a 1/2" bolt a 'close' fit I should be between .531 and .538, and 'loose' fit .609 and .625 with 'normal' fit in between.

But other sites are more prescriptive, telling me that I should use .5156 for a tight fit and .5312 for a loose fit. (basically 1/64" clearance for tight, and 1/32" clearance for loose. Clearance Hole Size for Bolts and Screws (Imperial) - The Engineer's Bible (engineersbible.com)

And, I've heard people say just always add 1/16" to nearly every size bolt hole.

Given SendCutSend and everyone else seems to have a tolerance of +/- .005", I'm struggling to understand what kind of fit I should go for. I'd hate to have a motor plate whose 4 support holes were just far enough off to not be able to mount the motor... :-O

Hoping there are a few folks who've been through this before!

:-)
Steve

Re: [electricboats] Bolt hole tolerance when laser cutting 1/2 inch stainless steel

I like that phrase "constellation of holes"...

You also need to provide for tension of the belt. That is typically done in these mountings by having the motor bolts fit in slots so it can slide to tension the belt.   Some of the mounts have a tensioning screw that pulls the motor sideways in the slotted holes, I did it with a quick clamp.   These sorts of setups would make the step face (bosses) unusable for positioning the motor except perhaps in one direction parallel to the belt axis (the line between motor and shaft centers).

On mine I ended up making a plate that fit over the face of the motor to give more surface area to the contact between it and the mounting plate. That plate is 1/8" thick to match the height of the stepped face boss on the motor.   Photos and details here:
http://dan.pfeiffer.net/10m/electric_drive_unit.htm
There may be better solutions to this. I had planned to cut recesses in the back of the mounting plate to receive the bosses on the motor but it was all a bit too tricky for me to machine with the needed precision on the manual mill I have. I'm sure a CNC setup could do it without difficulty. The spacer plate was simpler for me but this setup does rely on the friction from the motor mounting bolts holding to motor to the plate.   And you want to be sure to have as much engagement as possible of those bolts in the aluminum holes on the motor.

You also need to consider the thickness of the mounting plate and how far out the shaft of the motor extends from the surface to accommodate the proper mounting of the drive pulley. It needs to engage with the shaft and while there is some leeway there if the mounting plate is too thick you won't have enough of the shaft sticking out past the plate to get the pulley on.   If you look at the photos of my mounting plate you can see that the hole where the motor shaft comes through is large enough for the pulley to fit through.
http://dan.pfeiffer.net/10m/edrive_IMG_20211121_014845.jpg

I need to mount the pulley to the motor shaft before the motor was mounted to the plate because the mounting bolts are on the back side of the pulley bushing.   If there were through holes on the pulley bushing it could be done from the front but this size bushing doesn't have that. I thought about drilling them and if I needed a larger drive pulley I might have had to.

Another reason I used the 3/4 thick aluminum plate for my mount was that I could recess the fastener heads in the plate and get the belt closer to the surface of the plate for a tighter fit. I also cut a recess in the back of the plate for the motor to sit in so the shaft would stick out far enough from the face for proper mounting of the drive pulley.

Dan Pfeiffer

On 2022-02-07 1:05 pm, Myles Twete wrote:

Note also: Many (most?) motors have a face with a step. This is useful in that your plate can have a hogged out section that mates with that step such that the motor's XY location gets fixed by that interface and not your bolt pattern. At that point, the bolt holes can be fairly loose since they are for the most part merely pulling the motor tight against the plate and the plate friction and that step interface keep the motor secure. Of course the bolts also keep the motor from rotating on the plate by their being hole-aligned with the motor holes and bolts going thru them.

From: electricboats@groups.io [mailto:electricboats@groups.io] On Behalf Of Myles Twete
Sent: Monday, February 7, 2022 10:00 AM
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: Re: [electricboats] Bolt hole tolerance when laser cutting 1/2 inch stainless steel

Caveat: I am an engineer, but not mechanical.

Having said that, I've done some mechanical engineering designs and chosen hole sizes on parts during a couple of my contracts.

Realize that these are interfaces.

And sure, with single holes, you might get away with a close or tight tolerance for that each hole.

But even then, the fastener choice matters and perhaps a heavily plated, poorly toleranced or non-standard bolt gets spec'd and won't fit the hole that standard bolts would.

And there's a big difference between single, non-dependent holes vs a constellation of holes as you are defining for mounting the motor to the plate. And for that part of your design, you should consult the motor manufacturer's mechanical drawing for the motor. And if that does not inform as to spacing tolerances for the motor holes, then ask them. For sure, when you are dealing with a constellation of dependent holes, your hole diameters will need to be at least a little bit larger to accommodate the worst case sum of the tolerances of (1) motor hole spacing, (2) your plates matching hole spacing, (3) other factors?

In case this helps....

From: electricboats@groups.io [mailto:electricboats@groups.io] On Behalf Of Steven Borg
Sent: Sunday, February 6, 2022 5:37 PM
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: [electricboats] Bolt hole tolerance when laser cutting 1/2 inch stainless steel

Progress continues on the 55' electric motor conversion.

Next question: When laser cutting my 1/2" stainless steel plate for the motor mount (or other parts), what hole tolerance should I consider?

I get different answers when I look online: Clearance Hole Chart (amesweb.info)
suggests that for a 1/2" bolt a 'close' fit I should be between .531 and .538, and 'loose' fit .609 and .625 with 'normal' fit in between.

But other sites are more prescriptive, telling me that I should use .5156 for a tight fit and .5312 for a loose fit. (basically 1/64" clearance for tight, and 1/32" clearance for loose. Clearance Hole Size for Bolts and Screws (Imperial) - The Engineer's Bible (engineersbible.com)

And, I've heard people say just always add 1/16" to nearly every size bolt hole.

Given SendCutSend and everyone else seems to have a tolerance of +/- .005", I'm struggling to understand what kind of fit I should go for. I'd hate to have a motor plate whose 4 support holes were just far enough off to not be able to mount the motor... :-O

Hoping there are a few folks who've been through this before!

:-)
Steve

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