hello, anyone recommends me a better elec motors and contollers?
mine is lagoon 440 equiped with old solomon 2 x 9kw motors.
I wish to upgrade a bit bigger and stronger motors without messive changes
to my existing system configuration.
thanks,
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Hi Mike,
Great report. Interesting you spun the shaft coupling. This suggests either surfing down waves and/or due to rapid changes in torque that this was the cause? Do you key motor and prop shaft? If so would this not let the system fuse do the work instead and be your first weak point?
Also interested to know if your prop shaft has a fail safe in the coupling for such an occasion to prevent losing the shaft out of the back of the boat?
I just did my prop shaft and motor shaft side (as I'm direct drive) failsafes, as now I have a larger prop I felt that when surfing down waves the loads will increase this year compared to last year, especially if using regen.
John
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Quite a unique setup Lol! I like it!
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Looks like the price is the dealbreaker. I can get the 0907 for $383 and the Lynch motors are almost $1000 more. Looks like a great motor but I can't afford it, literally. And even with direct drive I would still need a thrust bearing, so only saving about $200 on the belt drive.
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What we did last weekend with our 1976 Columbia 9.6 diesel/electric
Friday 6am powered from Dana Point to Newport for the start of the race . Race started at 11am as we were the first boat to cross the starting line. The race has 125NM rum line. We did about 140NM in the race with a tack from Newport to mid channel and then a beam tack 134-140 into Ensenada Bay. A final tack in and we did it in 23 hours placing 2nd in our group.
Now what really happened: 50% of the boats DNS or DNF the race. Daytime winds grew from 12kts to 18kts. Nighttime winds constantly around 25kts. Gusts to 35kts. Swells SW up to 10ft. Top speed reached was 12.5kts. Sailing with main only from 11pm. Severe squall at 3:30 am with zero visibility. 3:55 the boom does an accidental jib and to get her back broke in two at the yoke. (severe corrosion found after evaluation). Last 7 hours of the race maintained speeds of about 7kts with foresail at 60 furl. Severe sea conditions spun the shaft coupler and we sailed into the harbor with the jib and straight to our dock.
You can get anything fixed in Mexico for $120. The boom is 2 inches shorter with a temporary fix.
The crew was absolutely confident that this 38 year old boat, #31, was going to get us home. Not a question. We just needed to let her take us to the finish line. She maintained her lines in really adverse conditions and sailed like she was 40ft long. And yes we did put her in regen mode because I was not sure we would ever get her to those speeds again - 120watts/hr was the regeneration reading.
This is normally a slow race but this year the fastest two boats did it in about 7.5 hours. You can do the calculations but that is really fast.
Mike sv Fluke Columbia 9.6 #31
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Congratuations! I'm glad to to hear it worked well!
Fred Liesegang
Electric T27-2
#662 "Eagle"
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I just wanted to drop a quick Thank-You to the group. My Tartan 27 officially made it on our maiden electric voyage up the Chicago River, through the locks, down the lakefront and into Burnham Harbor! Everything worked as expected with only a few small lessons along the way. Thanks for support and great resources available on this group that made homebrewing my electric sailboat a breeze (pun intended)
~Luke
Tartan 27 #478 On The Brink
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try US Batteries there US2200XC has worked well for me
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Hi,
Maybe you are right re Mars/Motoenergy cooling, but not with the Lynch which I suggest has better mechanical cooling properties for an open framed air cooled motor.
Also I'd like to take issue with your comment re "tried and true system".
If anything falls into that category it is the Lynch design. Here's why. John Fiorenza of Mars/Moto Energy worked for Briggs & Stratton I understand, and they built the Etek under an agreement with Lynch, albeit at much less power than the Lynch without infringing patents. John then went on to the motors you refer to, designed in US and built in China I believe.
Lynch motors are in all walks of life and go back over 20 years. I suspect there are more out there than Mars motors but as this list is US centric you'll see more about the Motoenergy I suspect. Great motors and good value I have to say though. But....
Here (if your boat is the right size) is why direct drive is better and more efficient than a geared system for some of us. First if you are replacing an IC engine of around 12hp with a Lynch and an efficient system/prop etc then you can do so with a direct drive 24V system.
The point I think many miss is that once they gear say at 2:1 and run at 48V is that they now need to run at around twice the current of a 24V system to maintain the motor at its peak 90% efficiency. In other words my system is designed to run at peak motor efficiency at cruise speed not at higher boat speeds as most 48V systems do. The only real reason for going to higher voltage systems is to get more power, but if you don't need the power then it is better to stick with a more efficient system. If I needed more power I'd go to 36 or 48V and gear at the cost of motor peak efficiency at cruise speed and therefore a cost in range. I'm well aware of IR squared losses and the pros and cons of a 24V string versus a 48V series string and V=IR etc.
Also the moment you gear and run motors at higher speeds you have higher frictional losses and therefore reduced efficiency. The ideal motor would be insulated and 100% efficient. Really we don't want to cool but we have to as we are not spending money on superconductors etc.
Say you run a motor at 80% efficiency at 1 kW then there are 200 watts of wasted heat. If however I run at my cruise speed of 4 knots at 90% efficiency I'm only losing 100 watts of waste heat that I could recover and say heat water for a shower with. As the whole propulsion system is a serial efficiency equation then I'd prefer to have efficient overall propulsion power than a shower ;)
Have a look at performance charts and voltages and efficiencies here and you'll see what I mean http://www.agnimotors.com/site/index.php/technical-data/143-series
Cedric Lynch now works with AGNI out of interest.
So many choices and variables eh, but what is right for one may not be right for another, however it is good to be aware of why we make certain choices when designing a system.
John
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Luke, Tom is most likely (99%) correct. That sudden inrush of capacitor charging current not only sparks (fires, explosions, electrocutions), but can overwhelm unfused circuits within adjacent equipment. The common solution is to more slowly pre-charge the black box's internal components with a pinky sized 10 to 100 ohm resistor. In your case, hook a resistor to negative battery terminal, then touch power supply's negative to the other end of the resistor. Current will slowly (a few seconds to a few minutes, depending on the resistor chosen) charge the power supply's capacitor(s). Put an 10 amp ammeter inline to see it happening. You can calculate ahead of time to estimate the length of time required to pre-charge, or just start with a 100 ohm resistor and measure how long it takes (by continuously measuring the voltage at the negative and positive cables of the power supply). Small-i-fy the resistor's ohms to speed up the process, but avoid exceeding any resistor's ability to shed heat (it's watt rating), and avoid the resistor's connection spark (or contain it within a sealed switch capable of the resisted initial contact current & voltage).
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Mike,I am sure your heart is in the right place. However, there is a good chance your sample is skewed - the only people who would come to a professional to replace a failed electric system, or complain about one, are people who made mistakes. More than likely, those who did well, and are enjoying their systems would never come to you.I am sure that any of the vendors you name would come up with an effective working system every time, within a predictable cost and time. I also get that "roll your own" will not save a whole lot of money if one buys properly spec'ed components new off the shelf. However, there are some - perhaps most on this board, who are interested from an experimentation point of view. The science is still fairly young, and there are still discoveries to be made, efficiencies to be found. Also some people have come across some bargain components - perhaps a battery bank, or a motor. They might well be able to build a system around that component and save some money, and learn a lot in the process.Perhaps the advice should be - go ahead and roll your own if you are more interested in the journey than the destination, those who enjoy research, and know (or are prepared to learn) a fair bit of mechanical and electrical engineering.I would argue that the industry would not even exist if people only listened to their vendors (which would all have been ICE vendors).On Mon, Apr 21, 2014 at 1:55 AM, <mike@electricyachtssocal.com> wrote:I want to say that I really admire the guys who go on their own and build their own systems. You are doing something that I was not comfortable with doing. I have personally installed over 40 systems and will tell you that I am glad that I know and work with propulsion engineers. I am a pretty bright guy and learned quickly, but what I did not know about designing, programing, engineering, and installing a marine propulsion system was a great deal. There is a difference in pushing a boat than pushing a car or bike. I also understand the issue of being under a budget constraint.
Now for the But.
If your criteria is doing it inexpensively and you do not appreciate the issues of driving a boat with an electric motor, why are you doing it? I have been approached weekly by guys who did their best and do not have "workable systems". All the marine propulsion vendors can push the boats we are dealing with at or close to hull speed and without "overheating", with good control, and do so safely. Buying motor parts on line does not necessary mean you have a workable reliable safe efficient and effective system. And it likely will not be less expensive if it does not work well and if you end up retrofitting it trying and still may be unable to make it work properly.
Every marine vendor who visit this website can push a boat with authority. Do so at a reasonable cost. And warranty their work - Elco, ElectroProp, EClean Marine, MasterVolt and Electric Yacht.
No motor should overheat if it is engineered correctly. Gear it properly. Have the correct heat management in the design. Have a rigid strong frame that is easy to align and work efficiently with an appropriate propeller. If you can not do that on your own, use a marine vendor who can. If you still can not do it, why not just sail or use an outboard?
I do not want to sound like a vendor who is trolling for business, but if you put yourself in a position to fail, you likely will. Maybe I am off base on this but I have talked to some pretty disappointed sailors who had great expectations and little to show for their efforts or money.
Mike
Electric Yacht of Southern California--Dominic Amann
M 416-270-4587
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The arcing you see is most likely the result of the filter caps on the power supply being charged by the propulsion bank. That's normal. You'll see the same arcing when connecting a DC-DC converter. In a fraction of a second (once the caps are charged), the arcing stops.
The arcing doesn't occur when the power supply is on since the caps are then being charged by the power supply itself.
If you want to be certain, put an ammeter in line with the output of the power supply. You might see a brief surge of current, but it will then instantly taper off to zero current (assuming there is no load on the power supply).
You have provided overcurrent protection at both the battery and power supply ends of this circuit, correct?
-Tom
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