Saturday, November 30, 2013

[Electric Boats] RE: Let the conversion begin!

 

I think you will be very pleased with electric I sure am

Everybody seems to have their own reason for converting and I am no different sense I already owned a diesel and was not happy with the smell noise vibration I started looking at electric 3or 4 years ago when my current boat a Morgan 33O/I with a dead diesel popped up last year I jumped on it and went to work

I installed a 10.5kw DIY from Thunderstruck with 15kw lead acid battery bank and it all fit in the same foot print of the dead perkins.  With a 18X15 3blade prop and a 3 to1 reduction  the weight worked out about the same total cost was just over $8000 for the motor charger batteries gages and everything  and I put a 55gal water tank where the fuel tank was that freed up the space under the berths for storage On a calm day I can motor @ 4-4.3 knots @ 30amps for 7+hours to 80% DOD  that seems to be the sweet spot more than that and it starts to slurp down the battery bank End result is I now have a nice little live aboard that it only takes 10 min to get underway and every thing I own dosnt smell like a city buss   

  Good luck with your project  Pat 



---In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, <fred4936@...> wrote:

Hello Jason,
 
Good luck with it! A freind of mine used the Propulsion Marine kit; It is very good and complete package. Having not to winterize is very nice. When I bought my boat the engine was not winterized, which necessitated replacing it. But i'm glad I did! Last winter i did take it out a few times on some very nice days. Just turn it on and go!
 
Fred Liesegang
Tartan 27-2 "Eagle"
 

From: Jason Taylor <jt.yahoo@...>
To: "<electricboats@yahoogroups.com>" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 11:40 PM
Subject: [Electric Boats] Let the conversion begin!
 
I've been on this list for years, fantasizing about converting my boat to electric propulsion. Well, the day has finally arrived, with my diesel's engine block having split open during an early freeze, before I had a chance to winterize.

I will be going with James Lambden's PM-20 (the Propulsion Marine 5.5kw) package with a 5kwh lithium pack and a 13x15.5" 3-blade prop. There are still details to be worked out, but the process has begun.

Photos, musings and most importantly, DATA will be shared with the group.

My boat is a 1978 Beneteau First 30.
The old drive was a horizontal, one-cylinder Yanmar YSB8 turning a 12x8 prop. The diesel tank was only 3-gallons as the boat has been a club racer for most of its life.

I should save about 75lbs of weight with the new setup, but in cruising mode, I will add a 50lb portable gas generator and a5-gallon jerry can so the weight should about even out.

Cost-wise, I expect things to come in at around the cost of a new diesel alone, uninstalled.

My wallet hurts, I am anxious, but I am also looking forward to the coming months.

Cheers,

/Jason

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[Electric Boats] RE: Pearson 10M electric power?

 

I have a slightly different take on the generator sizing.

 

Chances are, the bottleneck for this whole system is going to be the charger.  Shore power in the best circumstances: 240vac at 50 amps,  240vac is around 152vdc, and the charger is not going to actually pull all 50 amps or it risks tipping the circuit breaker.  45 amps is closer to the max current on a charger connected to shore power.  That's around 6800 watts, give or take.  A 7kw charger would be the ideal fit. I chose a 6kw charger because stepping up to an 8kw charger added another 30 percent to that component cost.

 

The same charger can use the (AC or DC) output from a gen set.  So, in my case, it made sense to just keep the existing 7kw Phasor gen set I already have.  Well, to be totally honest, I've pulled that gen set and set it on a bench in my shop.  I might not put any generator at all back on the boat.  I had a heck of a time finding a generator that was 1) well documented by the manufacturer and 2) available at a reasonable price.  If prices come down about 25 percent, and that documentation problem gets corrected, I'll revisit installing a new generator.

 

At 4 knots I should have a range of about 16 nm under battery power alone. That's a pretty good range for an auxiliary propulsion system that can be recharged just by sailing, and sailing is what I prefer to do anyway.

 

I guess the bottom line here is, when you are designing your PBBPS, you need to first identify how much power (in watts) is required to move your vessel at different speeds.  Work from there.  You may find out that 15hp is more than you need for a 33 foot vessel. One thing I do recommend considering, very strongly, is the nominal voltage of your battery pack.  It is very easy to find converters, inverters, and chargers for 48v packs.  Above that, however, and the options suddenly narrow quite a bit.



---In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, <gvanderhart@...> wrote:

Preston,

 

I do not have an electric propulsion system, so you may want to take my advice with a grain of salt.  However, I am an electrical engineer, so I know something about creating electrical systems that work.  Perhaps my comments will nudge other responses.

 

Since you want to power a fairly large sailboat and since you are removing an inboard motor, I would recommend a 10-20hp electric motor.  To get that kind of power requires at least 48 volts, or one bank of four 12V batteries.  The principle for voltage selection is: the higher the voltage, the lower the current.  Large currents can require more copper than is practical.  The best connection to the propeller is an AC motor with a motor controller.  The input to the motor controller is DC, but you get the advantage of a reliable brushless motor and more importantly, speed control.

 

There are a lot of tradeoffs with regard to how many banks you need (adds Ah) and how fast you can recharge those banks.  At least you will need a charger that connects to shore power.  If you already have a device that changes AC to charging DC, an AC gen set is probably the best way to avoid duplication of equipment.  If you choose the charger carefully (make sure the manual says you can connect other electrical equipment while it is charging), then you can use the power from the gen set/charger to run the motor.  In this case, the batteries keep the charger from shutting down (which it would do if it did not detect a minimum voltage), but the current from the charger is used to power the motor.  It makes sense to me to approximately match the charger output (volts * amps = watts) with the cruising volts * amps needed by the motor.

 

Gary



---In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

So, I'd love to "electrify" my old faithful Pearson 10M (33 ft.) sloop.  
The Atomic 4 that has served for so many years is shot.
I'd like to put in an electric motor (what kind, voltage, etc?), a water cooled generator or motor to run an alternator, a battery bank (of what kind of batteries?) and a controller of some sort.

I'll pull the old engine, get rid of the gas tank, and start over.

Multiples of 6 volts?  A 48 volt sweeper or golf cart motor?  A bank of 6 volt batteries, what type?  Generator, or motor w/alternator?  

I'm figuring 4,000 watts for the generation system, max 800-1200 rpms at the shaft…
15hp would drive the boat nicely...
(In my fantasy, a Hydrogen fuel cell system, fed by cng or something, would be cool…)
But, when I wake up and look at my checking account… probably a diesel gen set is the answer…

Thoughts, recommendations, guidance?
Best,

Preston

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Thursday, November 28, 2013

[Electric Boats] RE: Update

 

I think you have a typo in your blog link.

 

From BlogSpot:

"Blog not found


Sorry, the blog you were looking for does not exist. However, the name sailingintotheblue is available to register!"



---In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, <fullkeel2000@...> wrote:

Our blog at sailingintotheblue.blogspot.com
We managed to get thru using 45 amps at 48 volts. We will be changing the reduction ratio this winter to cure the running hot problem. Scott at Electric Yacht was a great help figuring out what was happening.
Richard

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Re: [Electric Boats] Correction

 



DC power rocks. They call it current cuz it was meant  for boats doncha know. Every day of using  the electric power it feels like a miracle is happening , like being onto a best kept secret. :)  And people like Ya all who's sharing inspired it all . Hugs all around big hugs    Yahoooo 
    Orest

On 2013-11-28, at 6:52 AM, Fred Liesegang wrote:

 

Thanks for the story, sounds like a great trip!
 
Fred Liesegang
 

From: R&M <fullkeel2000@yahoo.ca>
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2013 7:11 AM
Subject: [Electric Boats] Correction
 
Blog is at sailingintotheblue.wordpress.com.
You can move a fully loaded A30 against the wind using only 2 kw.


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Re: [Electric Boats] Correction

 

Thanks for the story, sounds like a great trip!
 
Fred Liesegang
 

From: R&M <fullkeel2000@yahoo.ca>
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2013 7:11 AM
Subject: [Electric Boats] Correction
 
Blog is at sailingintotheblue.wordpress.com.
You can move a fully loaded A30 against the wind using only 2 kw.

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[Electric Boats] Correction

 

Blog is at sailingintotheblue.wordpress.com.
You can move a fully loaded A30 against the wind using only 2 kw.

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[Electric Boats] Update

 

Our blog at sailingintotheblue.blogspot.com
We managed to get thru using 45 amps at 48 volts. We will be changing the reduction ratio this winter to cure the running hot problem. Scott at Electric Yacht was a great help figuring out what was happening.
Richard

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Wednesday, November 27, 2013

Re: [Electric Boats] Let the conversion begin!

 

Hello Jason,
 
Good luck with it! A freind of mine used the Propulsion Marine kit; It is very good and complete package. Having not to winterize is very nice. When I bought my boat the engine was not winterized, which necessitated replacing it. But i'm glad I did! Last winter i did take it out a few times on some very nice days. Just turn it on and go!
 
Fred Liesegang
Tartan 27-2 "Eagle"
 

From: Jason Taylor <jt.yahoo@jtaylor.ca>
To: "<electricboats@yahoogroups.com>" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 11:40 PM
Subject: [Electric Boats] Let the conversion begin!
 
I've been on this list for years, fantasizing about converting my boat to electric propulsion. Well, the day has finally arrived, with my diesel's engine block having split open during an early freeze, before I had a chance to winterize.

I will be going with James Lambden's PM-20 (the Propulsion Marine 5.5kw) package with a 5kwh lithium pack and a 13x15.5" 3-blade prop. There are still details to be worked out, but the process has begun.

Photos, musings and most importantly, DATA will be shared with the group.

My boat is a 1978 Beneteau First 30.
The old drive was a horizontal, one-cylinder Yanmar YSB8 turning a 12x8 prop. The diesel tank was only 3-gallons as the boat has been a club racer for most of its life.

I should save about 75lbs of weight with the new setup, but in cruising mode, I will add a 50lb portable gas generator and a5-gallon jerry can so the weight should about even out.

Cost-wise, I expect things to come in at around the cost of a new diesel alone, uninstalled.

My wallet hurts, I am anxious, but I am also looking forward to the coming months.

Cheers,

/Jason

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Re: [Electric Boats] Let the conversion begin!

 

After converting you don't have to worry about an early freeze again.

That's one of the things I like about going electric.
I used to winterize my boat and then the season was over.
A nice day comes up and you can't take the boat out.
With the electric I can just take it out and park it again after I'm done.

Mark


From: Jason Taylor <jt.yahoo@jtaylor.ca>
To: "<electricboats@yahoogroups.com>" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 8:40:14 PM
Subject: [Electric Boats] Let the conversion begin!

 
I've been on this list for years, fantasizing about converting my boat to electric propulsion. Well, the day has finally arrived, with my diesel's engine block having split open during an early freeze, before I had a chance to winterize.

I will be going with James Lambden's PM-20 (the Propulsion Marine 5.5kw) package with a 5kwh lithium pack and a 13x15.5" 3-blade prop. There are still details to be worked out, but the process has begun.

Photos, musings and most importantly, DATA will be shared with the group.

My boat is a 1978 Beneteau First 30.
The old drive was a horizontal, one-cylinder Yanmar YSB8 turning a 12x8 prop. The diesel tank was only 3-gallons as the boat has been a club racer for most of its life.

I should save about 75lbs of weight with the new setup, but in cruising mode, I will add a 50lb portable gas generator and a5-gallon jerry can so the weight should about even out.

Cost-wise, I expect things to come in at around the cost of a new diesel alone, uninstalled.

My wallet hurts, I am anxious, but I am also looking forward to the coming months.

Cheers,

/Jason


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[Electric Boats] Re: Let the conversion begin!

 

Ahoy Jason!

I will be very interested in your project as I am preparing to start the conversion of our Cal 29 sailboat along with a complete refurbish of the boat itself.  Mine will be a very long project, with the goal of creating a custom-built boat for my wife and I to cruise on with the use of little or no petroleum products.

Best Regards!

Bradley A. Bates

Play Mate -- Cal-29
Google Voice:  727.755.1574  <--- New!

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[Electric Boats] Re: Let the conversion begin!

 

Jason,

I'm sorry for your sudden loss (diesel), but happy you will have such a sweet system to fill the empty space in your boat and wallet.

You'll likely become a more expert sailor, spend gobs less time and money on motor maintenance, and deepen your relationship with mama earth.

Congratulations!

Mark Stafford

--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, Jason Taylor <jt.yahoo@...> wrote:
>
> I've been on this list for years, fantasizing about converting my boat to electric propulsion. Well, the day has finally arrived, with my diesel's engine block having split open during an early freeze, before I had a chance to winterize.
>
> I will be going with James Lambden's PM-20 (the Propulsion Marine 5.5kw) package with a 5kwh lithium pack and a 13x15.5" 3-blade prop. There are still details to be worked out, but the process has begun.
>
> Photos, musings and most importantly, DATA will be shared with the group.
>
> My boat is a 1978 Beneteau First 30.
> The old drive was a horizontal, one-cylinder Yanmar YSB8 turning a 12x8 prop. The diesel tank was only 3-gallons as the boat has been a club racer for most of its life.
>
> I should save about 75lbs of weight with the new setup, but in cruising mode, I will add a 50lb portable gas generator and a5-gallon jerry can so the weight should about even out.
>
> Cost-wise, I expect things to come in at around the cost of a new diesel alone, uninstalled.
>
> My wallet hurts, I am anxious, but I am also looking forward to the coming months.
>
> Cheers,
>
> /Jason
>

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Tuesday, November 26, 2013

[Electric Boats] Let the conversion begin!

 

I've been on this list for years, fantasizing about converting my boat to electric propulsion. Well, the day has finally arrived, with my diesel's engine block having split open during an early freeze, before I had a chance to winterize.

I will be going with James Lambden's PM-20 (the Propulsion Marine 5.5kw) package with a 5kwh lithium pack and a 13x15.5" 3-blade prop. There are still details to be worked out, but the process has begun.

Photos, musings and most importantly, DATA will be shared with the group.

My boat is a 1978 Beneteau First 30.
The old drive was a horizontal, one-cylinder Yanmar YSB8 turning a 12x8 prop. The diesel tank was only 3-gallons as the boat has been a club racer for most of its life.

I should save about 75lbs of weight with the new setup, but in cruising mode, I will add a 50lb portable gas generator and a5-gallon jerry can so the weight should about even out.

Cost-wise, I expect things to come in at around the cost of a new diesel alone, uninstalled.

My wallet hurts, I am anxious, but I am also looking forward to the coming months.

Cheers,

/Jason

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