T-Pain Is On A Boat: December 2012

Monday, December 31, 2012

RE: [Electric Boats] Re: Zivan battery Charger

Bradley,

I'd like to get $500.00. That would include shipping.

Buck Crowley

Petaluma CA.

707 765 9410

To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
From: no_reply@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 00:14:24 +0000
Subject: [Electric Boats] Re: Zivan battery Charger

How much? I'd be interested. How to contact?

Bradley

--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "buck" <buckcrowley@...> wrote:
>
> I have a NG1 battery charger set up to charge at 48volts x 18 amps. Is there anyone in the group interested in buying it? It's never been used and in the original shipping.
>

__._,_.___

Reply via web post

Reply to sender

Reply to group

Start a New Topic

Messages in this topic (3)

Recent Activity:

New Members 8
New Photos 5

Visit Your Group

Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use • Send us Feedback

__,_._,___

[Electric Boats] Re: Hello, everyone

Hi, Mark,
I took a little more time to look at the pre-fab unit you linked to. Pretty cool, and not unreasonably priced. I'd still have to take the rudder off, pull the prop shaft and shorten it just a little bit, I think, and still have to be able to pull the prop shaft in the future any time the belt required service, although belt-driven motorcycles are getting 100,000 miles before the belts need service and they certainly subject their belts to more sudden and violent acceleration loads than an electric boat ever would. Hmmm.
Oh, by the way - yes, Seablossom is the aft cabin model of Nor'Sea 27.
jeff

--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "acsarfkram" <acsarfkram@...> wrote:
>
> Hi junkrigsailor,
>
> There was a junk rigged Norsea 27 for sale in Monterey CA for a while. I like those boats, is it the aft cabin model?
>
> Regarding your hybrid plans, I think I would stay away from a chain drive. It might be noisy. Here is an off the shelf unit, http://www.electricyacht.com/products/our-weekender-hybrid-systems/
>
> Mark
> Santa Cruz
>
> --- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "junkrigsailor" <junkrigsailor@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi. I'm posting from home near Richmond, MO. I have a Nor'Sea 27 sailboat with a Chinese Junk rig and small diesel inboard. I am considering converting to a diesel / electric hybrid by adding an electric motor aft of the diesel, above the propeller shaft, and using a chain drive from the motor to the shaft. Why chain? Because split sprockets are readily available, and split sprockets and chain can be opened up to install around an existing shaft without a lot of teardown and reassembly.
> > The plan, should it work out, would be to use sail as my primary source of motive power, electric as preferred secondary power, and the diesel for longer distance travel. I see using the electric by putting the diesel's transmission in neutral - some friction loss, but not a great deal. Possibly I would use the electric to boost the diesel, a wimpy Yanmar SVE8, about 7 1/2 hp and not a lot for an 8,000 lb boat, and under other circumstances let the electric be driven by the diesel as a charger.
> > It seems likely that members here are aware of the Steyr Motors Parallel Hybrid system, as shown here: http://www.steyr-motors.com/marine-diesel-engines/2-4-and-6-cylinder/full-hybrid-propulsion-system-diesel-and-electric/ I've just borrowed their concept with the idea of retrofitting it to a (significantly lesser) existing diesel installation.
> > This won't happen tomorrow or next week. I have quite a bit of work to do on the boat before I even consider the electric motor, but I thought I would do well to hang around here and learn for a while.
> >
>

__._,_.___

Reply via web post

Reply to sender

Reply to group

Start a New Topic

Messages in this topic (7)

Recent Activity:

New Members 19
New Photos 8

Visit Your Group

Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use • Send us Feedback

__,_._,___

List Moderation (was: RE: [Electric Boats] Re: Think inside the box revisited)

Thanks, Kevin, for your insight all these years! J

At your request, I’ve changed your status to standard member---anyone out there want to co-moderate this list?

I can continue doing it myself, but a 2^nd moderator would help get messages approved more often.

Most of the members of this list are unmoderated, but new members and a few others require approval before the message hits the list.

I probably see an average of 3 new members and 3 messages per day that require approval.

-Myles

From: electricboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:electricboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Pemberton
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 9:57 AM
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Think inside the box revisited

Yes Mike very slow. It is more than avoiding a 60w bulb.

Sorry Myles. I guess your right. When you build your boiler for your
steam boat, you consider surface area and heat difference to determine
the size of boiler needed to transfer the energy you need. My example
although not explained well enough, shows the lack of the heat transfer
needed to keep the temp above condensation temp or close. If the heat is
produced within the motor, less energy is needed to maintain an equal
motor temperature. This is not a small amount of energy difference
either, it is substantial. Put temp sensors in the motor housing that
run the fans when needed. My use of my inverter example shows that
although very little energy is used to keep the inverter turned on, the
time to bring the temp up in the inverter is likely 1/10 the time it
would take using the stoves fuel source. This didn't take into account
the energy difference required to bring the inverter up to operating temps.

Turn your housing fans off on your electric outboard and see how much
heat builds up and how quickly it does this. It seems that if heat was
not a standard running problem fans and fins would not be engineered
into every motor and controller. My effort with this post is to remind
that although heat is a problem while using our boats it can be a big
advantage when we store them. Only experimentation will determine if
this idea has merit in the electric boat world. But it is likely
something that could be incorporated on a boat at anchor with a useful
sized solar panel, because less energy is likely needed to do the job.

When My boat was on a mooring. When it was cold enough I kept the
lantern going. It did not keep things hot enough to stop condensate
problems but it did help A small fan in mold issue locations can keep
the condensate down. I wonder had I had electric drive at the time, if I
could have reduced chaffing on my snubbers and reduced rust in the
running gear if I had done this with motor in reverse. I will never know
because I no longer own the boat. Fact is I have not been on my
boat(canoe) in over 2 years for lack of time. Condensation will never be
an issue on such a boat, so I was only thinking others may benefit from
what I posted. The only reason I revisited the post was I felt the idea
was shut down with sarcasm before anyone could consider it. It is noted
I didn't present the idea with enough information to be thought about
seriously, so I reposted with better info. I forget that I have
researched heat transfer methods to a level that many have not, so I
left out important information.

While I am at it. Myles you may have noticed it takes me time to respond
to email. This is because I have to travel 30miles to connectivity. I
feel it is time to have you remove me as a moderator, as I don't really
fill that position. I enjoy this list as should be evident in my
continued posts, however I don't have time to weed through posts as I
did in the past. To those that would have questions about posts I have
made in the past, I would like you to feel free to email me at my
personal address, but I will be un-subscribing after this post.

Kevin Pemberton

On 12/29/2012 02:34 PM, mkriley48 wrote:
> I get it you are using waste heat from the motor to keep it dry.
> maybe a very slow 20 or so rpm would also keep the prop clean.
> The downside is it seems needlessly complicated to avoid using a 60 watt bulb.
> mike
>
>
> --- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "matwete@comcast.net" <matwete@...> wrote:
>> You still haven't made your case...although I could have missed something in what you've written, it seems to me that you mentioned your 60 watt motor power suggestion then abandoned explaining how this 60watts would achieve the original goals.
>>
>> From my HTC Sensation 4G on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network
>>
>> ----- Reply message -----
>> From: "Kevin Pemberton" <pembertonkevin@...>
>> To: <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
>> Subject: [Electric Boats] Think inside the box revisited
>> Date: Fri, Dec 28, 2012 7:11 am
>> Hi all,
>>
>>
>>
>> In a previous post I suggested running your motor at, well 60w( I guess
>>
>> a mistake) and it was taken wrong. Mostly it was taken wrong because I
>>
>> did a poor job of stating my case so I will try again.
>>
>>
>>
>> When I stated think inside the box Myles, returned with "while I was
>>
>> thinking outside the box". I must say I meant think inside the box. I
>>
>> have a simple 750w inverter in my rig. When I get up in the morning and
>>
>> the temp inside is below 50 deg F. the inverter will not work. I have
>>
>> two options. One is to start the fire and wait an hour for the inverter
>>
>> to warm to it's operating temp, or turn it on with a 5w load(an LED
>>
>> light rope that tells me it is working again) and wait 5 minutes to use
>>
>> it. The efficiency of the inverter is quite good and it uses slightly
>>
>> more than the LED I am plugging into it, but the temp of the mosfet tech
>>
>> inside reaches at least 15 deg above ambient in no time.
>>
>>
>>
>> On the other side of the stick the ambers inside the stove I measured at
>>
>> around 1000 deg with inferred thermometer. The stove sides measured 350.
>>
>> deg. The shield around the stove measures 175 deg. and the wall 74 deg.
>>
>> It takes the house over an hour to warm to 78 deg if it ever does
>>
>> without a fan. Another example of internal heat vs. applied heat is the
>>
>> body. internal temp 98.6 deg. Because it is so efficient it does little
>>
>> to heat the house in winter but must be considered in the summer if A/C
>>
>> is used. Although it doesn't waist much energy in comparison to work, it
>>
>> is able to maintain it's operating temp with some insulation. If placed
>>
>> next to another body on a cold night, it will help keep optimum temp in
>>
>> both bodies, but not with much air space between them.
>>
>>
>>
>> Applying heat is inherently inefficient. Pot skirts help when heating
>>
>> with applied heat on a stove, but nothing works as well as internal
>>
>> heat. For this reason when electric stoves came out, GE also offered
>>
>> inductive heating stoves. Because they limited cookware options, they
>>
>> were not to popular. Industry sometimes uses inductive heating to bend
>>
>> large tubes. In motors inductive heat is the enemy. Laminates are used
>>
>> to reduce the effect thus increasing efficiency but the losses are not
>>
>> eliminated and fans are used to control it. It is for this reason
>>
>> thinking inside the box(motor) is not such a bad Idea. As for the
>>
>> controller I just stated my case with the inverter example.
>>
>>
>>
>> I hope I better stated my case this time. All my previous statements in
>>
>> my other post still apply.
>>
>>
>>
>> Kevin Pemberton
>>
>>
>>
>> P.S. The incubator purchased at a hospital auction uses applied heat in
>>
>> the form of a 160w light. Also not a bad idea I just felt there was a
>>
>> better one.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Committing murder in exchange for lifestyle
>>
>> makes you a "thug" not a "Rights Activist"
>>
>
>

--
Committing murder in exchange for lifestyle
makes you a "thug" not a "Rights Activist"

__._,_.___

Reply via web post

Reply to sender

Reply to group

Start a New Topic

Messages in this topic (4)

Recent Activity:

New Members 19
New Photos 8

Visit Your Group

Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use • Send us Feedback

__,_._,___

Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Flat drive belts with PP strapping

Hello Orest,

I was able to make my own components, so I did. It was part of the challenge and fun for me. From what I see, the kits from Electric Yacht and others are very good. I had the boat out the other day just motoring around. It's nice not having to winterize! Feel free to e-mail me if I can be of further assistance.

Fred

fred4936@yahoo.com

From: Orest Iwaszko <orestyko@hotmail.com>
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2012 5:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Flat drive belts with PP strapping

Fred , Merry Xmas but do tell us more about acquiring a good system , where who this is the kind of info im researching right now. ty

Orest Iwaszko

On 2012-12-22, at 4:48 AM, Fred Liesegang wrote:

Hi,

When I put together my system, I had already decided a form of flat belt would be the way to go. I wound up calling Goodyear at the behest of the supplier. I spoke with a gentleman there who was extremely helpful. I told him the application, motor, reduction and some other details and he did the engineering for me. I wound up with a flat belt with a chevron pattern on the inside. There is no idler, just the two pulleys and belt. It was not inexpensive, but is working very well.

Fred Liesegang

__._,_.___

Reply via web post

Reply to sender

Reply to group

Start a New Topic

Messages in this topic (33)

Recent Activity:

New Members 16
New Photos 8

Visit Your Group

Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use • Send us Feedback

__,_._,___

Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Think inside the box revisited

__._,_.___

Reply via web post

Reply to sender

Reply to group

Start a New Topic

Messages in this topic (3)

Recent Activity:

New Members 16
New Photos 8

Visit Your Group

Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use • Send us Feedback

__,_._,___

[Electric Boats] Re: Hello, everyone

I am in the process of converting an Albin 25 motorsailor to electric. Using the Electric Yacht 180 motor. Located near Lee's Summit, Mo.

You don't see too many Nor'Sea 27s in the midwest. I have always admired the Lyle Hess designs.

__._,_.___

Reply via web post

Reply to sender

Reply to group

Start a New Topic

Messages in this topic (6)

Recent Activity:

New Members 19
New Photos 8

Visit Your Group

Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use • Send us Feedback

__,_._,___

Re: [Electric Boats] Re: New invention: Gemini electric motor

I believe this will turn out to be vaporware. It reads as a "to good to be true" kind of thing.

From: james4078

Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 9:19 AM

To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [Electric Boats] Re: New invention: Gemini electric motor

There seems to be quite a large amount of time from the inception of the prototype and working model.
The company seems to be missing the market place by just playing with prototypes. Getting something into the market place seems to be slow for these guys.
There should be some research available on that outboard they converted but I cannot find anything.
If anyone has a line on anything would love to see it.

--- In mailto:electricboats%40yahoogroups.com, anton harpitap <harpitap@...> wrote:
>
> Surfing the WWW for electric motors I stumbled on this page
>
> http://www.geminielectricmotor.com/
>
> But I did not find any finished products. Is this yet another invention that will never make it to the marked?
>

__._,_.___

Reply via web post

Reply to sender

Reply to group

Start a New Topic

Messages in this topic (3)

Recent Activity:

New Members 16
New Photos 8

Visit Your Group

Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use • Send us Feedback

__,_._,___

Re: [Electric Boats] New invention: Gemini electric motor

In message
<1356957719.93311.YahooMailClassic@web120101.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>, anton
harpitap <harpitap@yahoo.com> writes
>Surfing the WWW for electric motors I stumbled on this page
>
>http://www.geminielectricmotor.com/
>
>But I did not find any finished products. Is this yet another invention
>that will never make it to the marked?

There seems to be little that is innovative in this. Permanent magnet
BLDC motors of the axial flux type have used a fixed stator with
permanent magnet rotors on each side for some years. The technique is
well known to those who make home-made axial flux motors for automotive
use (and also as generators for wind turbines). A radial flux version
as shown on the web site is a trivial change. The bit about its use as
a generator is just waffle. Any BLDC motor having permanent magnet
rotors can easily be used as a multi-phase alternator, with regenerative
operation under braking (on a road vehicle) if the controller allows for
it.

What is really needed is a low-speed BLDC (or switched-reluctance)
motor, having the stator peripherally arranged around a large diameter
hollow rotor assembly, with a multi-blade impeller filling the hollow.
This would give a low-speed motor, not requiring any gearing down, which
would make an ideal thruster for electric boats.

Such items do exist, at a cost, but none seem to be in the important
2000W to 5000W range that is required for an auxiliary propulsion unit.
--
Chris Morriss

__._,_.___

Reply via web post

Reply to sender

Reply to group

Start a New Topic

Messages in this topic (4)

Recent Activity:

New Members 19
New Photos 8

Visit Your Group

Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use • Send us Feedback

__,_._,___

[Electric Boats] Re: New invention: Gemini electric motor

There seems to be quite a large amount of time from the inception of the prototype and working model.
The company seems to be missing the market place by just playing with prototypes. Getting something into the market place seems to be slow for these guys.
There should be some research available on that outboard they converted but I cannot find anything.
If anyone has a line on anything would love to see it.

--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, anton harpitap <harpitap@...> wrote:
>
> Surfing the WWW for electric motors I stumbled on this page
>
> http://www.geminielectricmotor.com/
>
> But I did not find any finished products. Is this yet another invention that will never make it to the marked?
>

__._,_.___

Reply via web post

Reply to sender

Reply to group

Start a New Topic

Messages in this topic (2)

Recent Activity:

New Members 16
New Photos 8

Visit Your Group

Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use • Send us Feedback

__,_._,___

[Electric Boats] Re: bloom box

After reviewing their site, I'm pretty sure that the size of these power converters is not practical for a recreational boat.

--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gabe" <exp30002@...> wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> Has anyone used a "bloom box" with an electric motor for a boat?
> http://www.bloomenergy.com/
>

__._,_.___

Reply via web post

Reply to sender

Reply to group

Start a New Topic

Messages in this topic (5)

Recent Activity:

New Members 16
New Photos 8

Visit Your Group

Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use • Send us Feedback

__,_._,___

[Electric Boats] Re: Conversion of stern drive

I was going through some of my contacts and wanted to pass along some information for you guys.
Pure Water craft has made some alterations to their out drives and is getting ready to market it. Here is there FB page http://www.facebook.com/PureWC
Here is the record breaking 98 mph electric boat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yNu2_LlO9s

Also there is an electric outboard made in the Miami area that can hit 40-45 knots.
There are quite a few people out there doing this stuff, they are just not getting their marketing out there as good as the ICE guys.

--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "james4078" <james4078@...> wrote:
>
> Hey guys I'm in the middle of converting a 23' Regal. I have a photo album in the group listed under "23 foot cabin cruiser".
> Getting up on plane is possible if you spend alot of money on 1000 amp motor controller ($3000) and some heavy duty dc oil filled capacitors.
> Hull speed is easy to achieve with 300-400 amps @ 72vdc without any dc caps, but 400 amps just ain't going to get up on plane.
> You are going to loose some HP on your sterndrive, direct drive is the way to go if you want to plane out.
> Youtube does have a few e-boats getting up on plane, the fastest one out there can hit 98 mph with a 48vdc forklift motor and a 1000 amp zilla motor controller.
> As for me, I just want to hit hull speed... 8-10 knots. My biggest attribute is my regeneration system. I'm looking to cruise hull speed continuously thru some unique charging system I've been working on.
> I'll be keeping everyone up to date with my progress as it comes.
>
> I'd like to see some pictures of your progress too.
>
> Thanks
>
> James
>
>
> --- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "brent.jaybush" <brent.jaybush@> wrote:
> >
> > John, Yes I'm VERY interested!
> >
> > --- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, JohnnRaynes <johncraynes@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I have some data on a 26' electric boat conversion if you are interested.
> > >
> > > John Raynes
> > > Exeter, NH
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPad
> > >
> > > On Dec 15, 2012, at 1:45 PM, "oldgoat1968@" <dcsteere@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Actually, I'm more interested at this point in doing preliminary design planning. Does it make any sense at all? My 5.7L V-8 has max torque around 300 ft lbs at around 3,000 RPM. HP peaks at around 4,000 RPM at around 215 HP. It has a 99 gal fuel tank that would provide plenty of room for a battery bank. Based on my positive experience with an EV, I think I can get by with far less torque (and horsepower, too) from an electric motor, but I lack the skills to do a simple, back of the envelope calculation of how much power and torque I'll need. It would be nice to occasionally achieve a plane for short periods of time and to have a total endurance of maybe 3 or 4 hours, most of it at hull speed. Does this make any sense at all using a typical LIFEPO4 battery pack, and motor/controller similar to those the EV enthusiasts are using? The boat is pretty big (26 foot Sea Ray Sundancer) and it may just be totally in-feasible.
> > > >
> > > > --- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "Reid" <axius@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Dave,
> > > > > There is a stock Mercruiser drive which mounts the gas engine midships and uses an automobile type drive shaft to the rear. This system is shown in most Mercruiser manuals. This may be easier than trying to support an electric motor off the 2 spring mounts on the transom plate, plus a support from the front motor mounts?
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "oldgoat1968@" <dcsteere@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Brent, I'm very interested in this conversation. I, too, have a 1985 26' Sundancer with a 5.7L V-8 Mercruiser inboard-outboard. Mine is a B-2 outdrive, a conversion from the original B-1 model. I have completed an EV project on a 95 Acura Integra. I used a 3 phase AC motor (AC-50) which is conservatively rated at 59 HP and it has plenty of torque and power to push my car along quite nicely. Economy is excellent, too -- a measured 2.6 cents per mile over about a six month -period (a little over 3,000 miles). My thought is that a similar sized motor might be sufficient to drive my big boat. Not trying to win races here, but occasionally getting it up on plane would be a goal. Seems to me it would be relatively easy to configure a motor mount for a 9 inch motor and an adaptor plate/hub arrangement that would mate to the splined shaft coming out of the Mercruiser. Anybody every try such an arrangement?
> > > > > > Dave
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "mattelderca" <mattelderca@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There are some brilliant guys in the Netherlands that frequent this group.
> > > > > > > http://www.newelectric.nl/
> > > > > > > Although not as big a project as yours, their install would scale up a bit and fit well depending on your expectations. Not sure if you could run around at planning speed for any real length of time, but low cruising speeds should prove very doable. Be sure to watch their Youtube videos, as they say a picture is worth a thousand words.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/user/NewElectricPowerboat/videos
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "brent.jaybush" <brent.jaybush@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Has anyone attempted or been successful converting a fairly large stern drive to electric drive?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I have a 1979 26 ft. SeaRay powered by a Mercruiser/Chevy 260 HP 350 CU V8 gas hog with a 100 gallon tank for the black gold.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Just beginning to research the possibilities. Certainly no shortage of space for batteries.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Edison Marine has created a large 17' runabout with enough powering for hull speed, so it seems it should be feasible, perhaps with limitations.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I already run it around MDR at a sea snail's pace using a surplus trolling motor on the swim step, so a proper EV design should do far better, but achieving plane speed is probably out of the question.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>