Josh,
Propulsion Marine uses the Perm 156W motor in our 10 KW drive. This motor costs $3,000 or more depending on shipping and the Euro exchange rate. It is the highest efficiency motor I can find built to very high standards. I visited Perm this summer and was able to tour their manufacturing facility in the Black Forest in Germany. It was very impressive.
A lot goes into any production item including tooling, testing, trying different components, and doing the software programming of the unit to match the propeller requirement, not to mention the technical support that goes along with any one of these drives throughout the installation process.
As we progress we get into bigger systems and will next be introducing ourselves and working with Original Equipment Manufacturers. I received a call yesterday from a venture capitalist asking me to build the entire boat from scratch - now thats a project I could really get into.
Any one of these systems at these prices is an absolute deal. I know or have spoken to most of the manufacturers and they would all agree we are not getting rich doing this. Our incentive is more towards providing alternative energy to sailboats and enhancing the boating experience for our customers. The best part about what we do is the interacting with our customers who inevitably become our close friends.
I think the most important aspect of any installation is knowing the safety issues and making sure no corners are cut on the installation. Our kits also include a remote display which I find to be another great asset to a marine drive. Not only does it provide up to date information on the operation of the system, it also gives complete fault management and makes any trouble shooting a breeze. A wire left off the contactor for instance shows up as a contactor fault. Or a missing temp sensor. same thing. Being able to know information while at sea is very important to the overall safety of the boat. To give an example of the time spent on the display, that project started two years ago, and is now just reaching completion. It included two trips to Sevcon in Boston and one trip to Sevcon in England to get it just right.
Some of us just like making things ourselves and this I understand fully. In the future, I plan to sell components to support the DIY customers as much as I can. But sooner or later, most of us want more for our drives and the manufacturers experience is interesting because we have already been where the DIY is going. Its a learning curve and its just a matter of where you are on it.
I congratulate any boat that accomplishes electric propulsion any way they safely can.
Cheers and best wishes to all.
James
On Nov 18, 2011, at 11:34 AM, Josh Stallings wrote:
ASMO Marine uses the Lynch motor, which is $1799: http://www.cloudelectric.com/product_p/mo-lem200-127.htm. Propulsion Marine uses a Perm motor, which is $1025: http://www.electricmotordepot.com/products/Perm-Electric-Motor-PMG%252d132.html. If I were going the DIY route I would get the new, superior Lynch motor for $1625: http://www.electricmotordepot.com/agni-electric-pm-motor-b95r/. Sevcon controller is $595: http://www.electricmotordepot.com/sevcon-gen4-controller-24-36v-300amp/
The Thoosa 9000 system best price is: $7790 at NGC Marine. You get the Lynch motor, motor mount with reduction, 200 amp unnamed controller, and ignition.If you look at the case studies from Electric Yacht a lot of them had to fabricate or rig their own mounts and wiring. In one case study someone hired a marine electrician.In the end I'm against the DIY route and will probably go with a vendor solution when I get to that stage on the catamaran I am building next year. I just want to understand how the market settled on the price range of $8000-$10000 for base "kits".
Josh
On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 3:42 AM, Mike <biankablog@verizon.net> wrote:I agree with Jim and Eric. I went the ASMO MARINE Thoosa 9000 system because it was pretty much plug and propel. All the components where already mounted in a box with a proper heat sink that has been trouble free for four years now. All I had to do was mount the motor and put some connectors on the cables for the battery and motor. I'm all for DIY but, for me not having to drill and mount things to heat sinks, connect and wire up the components individually was a real time and aggravation saver and got me and the boat back on the water as soon as possible.Capt. MikeSent: Friday, November 18, 2011 2:10 AM
Subject: [Electric Boats] Re: Where to even start
Hi jostalli7,
I'm not sure what you are calling a huge markup. None of the vendor supplied drive solutions are a motor and controller in a box leaving you to figure out how to adapt everything else to your boat.
When I looked at what I pay for the bare components that were included in my drive system, the price that I paid Propulsion Marine was only 25% more. With that came a great deal of advise and recommendations that ranged from my propeller to the appropriate amount fo reduction to clear wiring diagrams to battery options. As a result, I installed my system once, it worked beautifully and outperformed my estimates based on the reported performance of similar boats (you can see my observed performance data if you search some of my previous posts).
Given my consideable experience in getting different electric car conversions operational, I found the vendor "premium" well worth my time and money. But your experience may be differnt, and we all get to spend our money in our own ways.
I believe that if I had tried to wing it on my own, my installation would have taken significantly longer and I probably would have had to do various parts of the installation over. If I was lucky, I wouldn't have to buy more of the same parts as I gained experience and tuned my system. Other DIY'ers have reported damaging some components through their inexperience increasing their startup costs.
With the experience that I gained in doing this conversion, I could probably put together my own drive from scratch with a high chance of success. However, I would probably still buy a complete system, to save time, support our fledgling industry and to encourage further advancements. Since our vendors install many systems in differnet boats, they have more opportunity to try new things and work out the kinks before making them accessable to anyone with a cordless drill, some wrenches , and little practical experience in coverting boats to electric drive.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, I think that buying a complete drive system from a reputable vendor is moeny well spent.
Fair winds,
Eric
Marina del Rey, CA
--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "jostalli7" <jstallings@...> wrote:
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> I'm in agreement that a complete DIY is ill-advised. However, what is confusing to me is the huge markup of the the motors and controllers from these vendors you mention. Two of them use the Lynch motor, which can be purchased for a little over $1000. The controllers they use are around $600.
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