I am a few months out before i can start prototyping.. if anyone is likely to play with these turbines before that, please share with the group. They are relatively cheap too $2/W which is good for something this size. So a 5kW unit runs about 10 grand.
--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, Steamboat Willie <stmbtwle@...> wrote:
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> I understand all that but I'm wondering if a somewhat more complex twin-turbine-one-generator setup might actually be more cost effective than two separate turbine-generators. Some in the boating industry have gone to counter-rotating props on a single engine, and it seems to work. Whether it'll work with wind turbines, there's only one way to find out.Â
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> --- On Tue, 11/9/10, Galstaf <richard@...> wrote:
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> From: Galstaf <richard@...>
> Subject: [Electric Boats] Station keeping Azipod -- was Re: Multidirectional Docking Electric Motors
> To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, November 9, 2010, 9:10 PM
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> Typical turbines have to have significant spacing from the neighbors to be effective. This is the first ones I have seen where the manufacturer actually recommends they be clustered. Connecting to one generator would add gearing and complexity and lower efficiency because of resistance losses. Plus there is fault tolerance in multiple generators... if you lose one, you still have the others contributing to propulsion and charging.Â
> I am wondering if they are going to start offering the same cogless technology in a fully sealed and submersible motor (they have marine submersible generation too). Could be a revolution in design and may cut down on size, prop shaft and vibration issues and even be sea water cooled but still have the power of a bigger motor.Â
> As I mentioned.. if we can get a few people from the group to make inquiries about electric powered boating, perhaps they will start to give us a bit more consideration as a potential source of sales.Â
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> --- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, Steamboat Willie <stmbtwle@> wrote:
> >
> > No not "counterintuitive" at all. As a wind turbine extracts energy from the wind, it imparts a COUNTER rotation to the wind that goes through the turbine, so yes this would probably help a COUNTERROTATING turbine IF it were directly downwind. Most "production" turbines unfortunately all spin the same way, and the wind is constantly changing direction so positioning the second turbine would be a challenge.... UNLESS it were mounted on the SAME tower. Hmmm, counter-rotating turbines on the same tower, maybe even geared to the same generator. I can see some significant cost savings here, not to mention additional power extracted.
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> > Willie
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> > --- On Tue, 11/9/10, Galstaf richard@ wrote:
> >
> > From: Galstaf richard@
> > Subject: [Electric Boats] Station keeping Azipod -- was Re: Multidirectional Docking Electric Motors
> > To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Tuesday, November 9, 2010, 8:41 PM
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> > Feel free to check out the turbines... http://ftcenergy.com/
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> > Their website blows (pardon the pun).. but they have some interesting videos on youtube http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=realracecom#g/u
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> > They have 50 videos posted covering about 2.5 years of progress.
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> > They have about 20 turbines deployed in the real world and claim to have a new contract with a Californian university and some federal contracts, but I have yet to see any evidence of that.
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> > Let's just say they are much better engineers than they are sales people, but they claim that if the turbines are clustered together that the exhaust from one actually can accelerate a counter-rotating unit downwind with a vacuum (low pressure) effect.
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> > Seems counterintuitive, but makes a little sense when you see the turbine blade design.
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> > Anyway, with wind directors, the clustered configuration and the fact they have non cogging generators they claim to be able to overcome the effects of the windage and that it is even possible to drive into a head wind; although I was a bit dubious of that claim.
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> > The turbines are also much smaller and a hell of a lot lighter than the equivalent capacity turbines I have seen.
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> > Check them out.. I would love to get input from the rest of the group. The owner is a bit surly, but perhaps others on the list can get some definitive proof that his turbines work in a clustered configuration.
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> > To answer the question about station keeping, it is not essential. Just been in situations where it would be very handy when you are tired and can't get the anchor to bite and you just need an hour or so to chill out.
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> > If the technology is not readily available now, I don't think it is far away. They have remote control planes that you steer with an iPhone now. I am sure a lot of these technologies will be off the shelf in the not too distant future, especially in the radio control hobbiest/ robot builder market place.
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> > Just thinking "why not?"
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> > --- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "tartan27hull157" tartan27hull157@ wrote:
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> > > What is the wind cross-section of 15-20kW of vertical wind turbines?
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> > > If you are not anchored or moored, won't you have a sailing craft after all? I mean, with all that windage aloft, won't you just be blown downwind?
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> > > If the reason why you won't be blown downwind is because you will be driving a screw which is pushing pushing water faster and harder than the wind can push the boat, I think you will have to add energy to the system somewhere.
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> > > I still don't understand why you wouldn't just anchor (or moor or dock). What is driving the anchorless requirement of the design? What problem is this a 'solution' to?
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> > > --- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "Galstaf" <richard@> wrote:
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> > > > To clarify: I am indeed seeking an anchorless solution, and this is going to be a *non sailing craft* with 15-20kW of vertical wind turbines. More turbines may be added later.. they are not nearly as large or heavy as I had originally anticipated.
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> > > > The Azipod does pretty much what I am looking for; I just wasn't aware of the name. Ideally I would like that to be the principle drive for the boat also.
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> > > > Can anyone recommend a manufacturer for boats in the 50' (25000 pounds) range?
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> > > > Is anyone using anything like this?
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> > > >
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> > > > --- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, danbollinger <no_reply@> wrote:
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> > > > >
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> > > > > It is possible, but I'm guessing you'd have to do most of the development work yourself. Good station-keeping, as in drilling rigs and research vessels, is done with a thruster on each quarter. Not a very good solution for a sailboat. Another way would be a single azi-pod mounted near the center of the boat. It would turn to face away from the direction of drift, and the thrust until it returns to station.
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> > > > > I like the idea of anchor line strain gages, but the OP seemed to say he wanted an anchor-less solution.
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> > > > > --- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "leemurs72" <jt.yahoo@> wrote:
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> > > > > > What you are looking for is called "station keeping" in autopilot speak. http://www.yachtingmagazine.com/article/Best-New-Autopilots has some tidbits on various autopilots. The ComNAV autopilots have station keeping abilities, but I think that requires a bow thruster...
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> > > > > > I am sure you could spoof a stay-put request by feeding a tight circle of waypoints to your autopilot over and over again. Of course, your anchorage neighbours would not be too pleased.
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> > > > > > How about adding a strain gauge to the anchor line feeding info to
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