T-Pain Is On A Boat

Monday, October 16, 2023

Re: [electricboats] question about stoves on e-boats

We have converted all indoor cooking to electric. A 2 burner cooktop and an air fryer oven. I'm with the belief that propane in the saloon with hulls to fill with gas is not safe. As was mentioned before no gassing at all from the batteries and great return on the solar. We do have an outdoor grill on the back but the tank is secured to the aft rail behind a knee wall. Honestly the amount of power used on the stove is minimal and we can even bake occasionally.

We don't have a generator but with a cat plenty of room for solar.

Steve

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Re: [electricboats] question about stoves on e-boats

Scott,
This may not be the group to be asking about propane stoves.
I'm inclined to ditch the alcohol stove on our Cape Dory 27, mainly because the flame is not particularly hot. An electric induction stove top would be my choice, once we get our project boat onto the water, but such a decision would not be dirven by safety considerations. It's more a matter of being consistent with the ethos that's carrying me through the electrification challenge in the first place: minimize carbon footprint.
Having said that, if you want to opt for propane, the sources I suggest you consult would be American Boating and Yacht Council (ABYC) on the safe installation and use of propane systems; and various other sources include Boat US, West Marine, and nationaly publications such as Cruising World Magazine and Practical Sailor.
As Crusing World has noted, "On most production cruising boats built from the mid-1980's on, marine propane stoves and ovens have been the rule." [*] They go on to say that, although it is an inherently dangerous fuel, "Most who use propane aboard safely feel that the benefits outweigh the risks: it's available worldwide, the cost is reasonable, it burns hot and cooks food quickly, its odorless while burning, and it's easy and safe to use as long as you practice strict safety measures."
Saying "safe to use" is a bit disingenuos, but I think the point is that correct installation and use will mitigate the inherent risks of the fuel.
And after all, isn't that we're all doing aboard with our electric propulsion systems .... mitigating and managing the inherent risks of the energy source?
[-tv]
Thomas VanderMeulen
"Grace O'Malley"
Cape Dory 27
Monroe, MI

* ["How to Select a Marine Stove"; Crusing World Magazine; May 7, 2020, online source]

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Re: [electricboats] Advice for electric conversion

Ric,

Wow, thanks!

I would be interested in seeing your progress as you move the vertical alignment forward.

Best of luck!

Marcel

From: electricboats@groups.io <electricboats@groups.io> On Behalf Of Ric Sanders via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, October 7, 2023 12:55 PM
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: Re: [electricboats] Advice for electric conversion

Okay,

I've attached a pdf of my conversion from the 30+ year old really expensive parts Volvo Piece of iron to the Thunderstruck AC 34 for your entertainment. I have learned a lot since then and am now on my 3rd set of batteries with which I am pleased. I've also attached a photo of the top of the lower section of a VP 120s saildrive and am now thinking what Randy is proposing would be a great way to go. the shaft sticking up from the saildrive is actually a small jackshaft and slips onto the splines that are sticking out of the very top of the loewer unit. A new plate in place of all the parts of the upper section of the saildrive with a much simpler bracket and coupling method, eliminating the friction loss of the original transmission, shifting issues etc. would seem to be a much better way to go.

Please please please let us all know if this works out and take and share pictures.

Cheers,

Ric

Re: [electricboats] question about stoves on e-boats

So in general I don't like heavier-than-air fuels on the boat regardless of the propulsion type. That said, there are certainly effective and safe ways to have them. If you do have them I would maintain a proper bilge blower to clear any potential vapors. And even with a brushless EV motor there may still be other sources of potential ignition in some other motor or device on board? Hopefully they are all proper marine grade devices with ignition protection and are all in proper order and in good safe condition. But what if one of them isn't? An unnecessary risk to me.

I have a single burner Origo alcohol stove that suits my needs just fine. But I am not a cook or a serious voyager. I have a two burner Origo unit that I intended to install but I see no point in it now. An induction unit is intriguing though I am very protective of my electrons for propulsion. If I had good and reasonably high capacity solar (300 to 500 watts?) I would consider it. I would find more use for a microwave.

I would not use a camping type propane stove below on a boat. I would not even store the bottles below. Bozo no no. I do have one of those rail mount propane grills that came with the boat and I have never used it (not a cook) and would not store the fuel canisters below deck.

As for the Pearson 10M in particular (of which I know a bit), you should not consider any part of the boat as separated from any other part as vapors are concerned. It's just one big space to a cloud of propane or gas fumes.

I don't know what sort of stove was in this 10M but unless it was a Vulcan commercial unit I doubt the sale helped much in the conversion. But I would put more value in the truck fridge for me.

Dan Pfeiffer

On 2023-10-16 2:19 pm, Scott E Erdman via groups.io wrote:

Hi Folks,

Another question – the boat that I’m looking to purchase is a Pearson 10M that has been converted to electric drive via a bank of Lithium cells for the drive and two AGM batteries for the house functions. The owner removed the stove it came with and sold it to help finance the electric conversion. In it’s place there is now the stowable countertop that would have covered the stove, the mounting spots from the gimble and a truck fridge which will come with the boat. Overall this is fine with me as I don’t really plan to need to bake a bunch and using a simple cartridge stove mounted on a holder that is gimbled will be fine for my purposes. My question is this – my understanding is that alcohol stoves are common on sailboats to reduce the potential to have build up of explosive gasses from, for example, propane. I have a two burner propane Coleman folding green camp stove that works great and sees very little use which I would love to put in this spot. An alternative would be a butane stove or even an induction stove. Is there any concern about use of such a stove igniting gasses from the Lithium batteries in the bank that resides in the quarterberth on the opposite side but which is in the same space as the galley (i.e. not separated by a bulkhead). What is the safety concern for Lithium cells ? If they are in good shape and have enough air circulation is that enough or are there other concerns that might encourage use of induction, despite the power drain it can create.

Thanks,

Scott

Re: [electricboats] question about stoves on e-boats

Alcohol stoves are great but finding a decent one since Origo stopped making them is hard. The Wallas on the the other hand, is available and easy to use.

Paul J. Thompson
Information Technology Manager
Henry Brooks Co. (t/a Bathroom Direct)

M 64 21 275 5001(txt only please) F 64 9 913 3113
E paul@bathroomdirect.co.nz
PO Box 58031, Botany, New Zealand 2163
5 Smales Road, East Tamaki, Manukau City
www.bathroomdirect.co.nz

The information in this email and any attachments is confidential.
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It must not be disclosed to any person without our authority.
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On Tue, Oct 17, 2023 at 8:50 AM Scott E Erdman via groups.io <seerdman=syr.edu@groups.io> wrote:

Thanks Paul, this makes sense. Seeing the prevalence of alcohol stoves in the boat space vs. backpacking and RV stuff where propane and other related fuels are the norm raised a question for me. It makes sense since boats have more sealed compartments or spaces with limited air circulation so you need to be careful. I own a VW Westfalia and the kitchen has two burner propane and a dometic propane and electric fridge all connected into the house propane tank underneath the van.

From: electricboats@groups.io <electricboats@groups.io> On Behalf Of Paul J. Thompson
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2023 3:44 PM
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: Re: [electricboats] question about stoves on e-boats

Lithium (LiFePo4) don't gas. Lead Acid (AGMs) do give of hydrogen if being over charged. For cooking I'm using an induction hob when solar is plentiful and a Wallas diesel stove which I run on kerosene on days which don't have good solar. I'd never have LPG onboard my boat as I've see more than one boat explode do to LPG problems.

Paul J. Thompson
Information Technology Manager
Henry Brooks Co. (t/a Bathroom Direct)

M 64 21 275 5001(txt only please) F 64 9 913 3113
E paul@bathroomdirect.co.nz
PO Box 58031, Botany, New Zealand 2163
5 Smales Road, East Tamaki, Manukau City
www.bathroomdirect.co.nz

The information in this email and any attachments is confidential.
This information may be subject to legal, professional, or other privilege.
It must not be disclosed to any person without our authority.
If you are not the intended recipient you are not authorised to and must
not disclose, copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.
Please return this message to the sender immediately and delete any
and all copies from your system.

On Tue, Oct 17, 2023 at 8:19 AM Scott E Erdman via groups.io <seerdman=syr.edu@groups.io> wrote:

Hi Folks,

Another question – the boat that I'm looking to purchase is a Pearson 10M that has been converted to electric drive via a bank of Lithium cells for the drive and two AGM batteries for the house functions. The owner removed the stove it came with and sold it to help finance the electric conversion. In it's place there is now the stowable countertop that would have covered the stove, the mounting spots from the gimble and a truck fridge which will come with the boat. Overall this is fine with me as I don't really plan to need to bake a bunch and using a simple cartridge stove mounted on a holder that is gimbled will be fine for my purposes. My question is this – my understanding is that alcohol stoves are common on sailboats to reduce the potential to have build up of explosive gasses from, for example, propane. I have a two burner propane Coleman folding green camp stove that works great and sees very little use which I would love to put in this spot. An alternative would be a butane stove or even an induction stove. Is there any concern about use of such a stove igniting gasses from the Lithium batteries in the bank that resides in the quarterberth on the opposite side but which is in the same space as the galley (i.e. not separated by a bulkhead). What is the safety concern for Lithium cells ? If they are in good shape and have enough air circulation is that enough or are there other concerns that might encourage use of induction, despite the power drain it can create.

Thanks,

Scott

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Re: [electricboats] question about stoves on e-boats

Thanks Paul, this makes sense. Seeing the prevalence of alcohol stoves in the boat space vs. backpacking and RV stuff where propane and other related fuels are the norm raised a question for me. It makes sense since boats have more sealed compartments or spaces with limited air circulation so you need to be careful. I own a VW Westfalia and the kitchen has two burner propane and a dometic propane and electric fridge all connected into the house propane tank underneath the van.

From: electricboats@groups.io <electricboats@groups.io> On Behalf Of Paul J. Thompson
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2023 3:44 PM
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: Re: [electricboats] question about stoves on e-boats

Lithium (LiFePo4) don't gas. Lead Acid (AGMs) do give of hydrogen if being over charged. For cooking I'm using an induction hob when solar is plentiful and a Wallas diesel stove which I run on kerosene on days which don't have good solar. I'd never have LPG onboard my boat as I've see more than one boat explode do to LPG problems.

Paul J. Thompson
Information Technology Manager
Henry Brooks Co. (t/a Bathroom Direct)

M 64 21 275 5001(txt only please) F 64 9 913 3113
E paul@bathroomdirect.co.nz
PO Box 58031, Botany, New Zealand 2163
5 Smales Road, East Tamaki, Manukau City
www.bathroomdirect.co.nz

On Tue, Oct 17, 2023 at 8:19 AM Scott E Erdman via groups.io <seerdman=syr.edu@groups.io> wrote:

Hi Folks,

Another question – the boat that I'm looking to purchase is a Pearson 10M that has been converted to electric drive via a bank of Lithium cells for the drive and two AGM batteries for the house functions. The owner removed the stove it came with and sold it to help finance the electric conversion. In it's place there is now the stowable countertop that would have covered the stove, the mounting spots from the gimble and a truck fridge which will come with the boat. Overall this is fine with me as I don't really plan to need to bake a bunch and using a simple cartridge stove mounted on a holder that is gimbled will be fine for my purposes. My question is this – my understanding is that alcohol stoves are common on sailboats to reduce the potential to have build up of explosive gasses from, for example, propane. I have a two burner propane Coleman folding green camp stove that works great and sees very little use which I would love to put in this spot. An alternative would be a butane stove or even an induction stove. Is there any concern about use of such a stove igniting gasses from the Lithium batteries in the bank that resides in the quarterberth on the opposite side but which is in the same space as the galley (i.e. not separated by a bulkhead). What is the safety concern for Lithium cells ? If they are in good shape and have enough air circulation is that enough or are there other concerns that might encourage use of induction, despite the power drain it can create.

Thanks,

Scott

Re: [electricboats] question about stoves on e-boats

Paul J. Thompson
Information Technology Manager
Henry Brooks Co. (t/a Bathroom Direct)

M 64 21 275 5001(txt only please) F 64 9 913 3113
E paul@bathroomdirect.co.nz
PO Box 58031, Botany, New Zealand 2163
5 Smales Road, East Tamaki, Manukau City
www.bathroomdirect.co.nz

On Tue, Oct 17, 2023 at 8:19 AM Scott E Erdman via groups.io <seerdman=syr.edu@groups.io> wrote:

Hi Folks,

Another question – the boat that I'm looking to purchase is a Pearson 10M that has been converted to electric drive via a bank of Lithium cells for the drive and two AGM batteries for the house functions. The owner removed the stove it came with and sold it to help finance the electric conversion. In it's place there is now the stowable countertop that would have covered the stove, the mounting spots from the gimble and a truck fridge which will come with the boat. Overall this is fine with me as I don't really plan to need to bake a bunch and using a simple cartridge stove mounted on a holder that is gimbled will be fine for my purposes. My question is this – my understanding is that alcohol stoves are common on sailboats to reduce the potential to have build up of explosive gasses from, for example, propane. I have a two burner propane Coleman folding green camp stove that works great and sees very little use which I would love to put in this spot. An alternative would be a butane stove or even an induction stove. Is there any concern about use of such a stove igniting gasses from the Lithium batteries in the bank that resides in the quarterberth on the opposite side but which is in the same space as the galley (i.e. not separated by a bulkhead). What is the safety concern for Lithium cells ? If they are in good shape and have enough air circulation is that enough or are there other concerns that might encourage use of induction, despite the power drain it can create.

Thanks,

Scott

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T-Pain Is On A Boat

Monday, October 16, 2023

Re: [electricboats] question about stoves on e-boats

Re: [electricboats] question about stoves on e-boats

Re: [electricboats] Advice for electric conversion

Re: [electricboats] question about stoves on e-boats

Re: [electricboats] question about stoves on e-boats

Re: [electricboats] question about stoves on e-boats

Re: [electricboats] question about stoves on e-boats

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