On Mar 23, 2023, at 10:45 AM, twowheelinguy via groups.io <twowheelinguy=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:I would concur about skipping the AGM batteries unless you already have them and even then I would consider switching straight to lithium. Take it from someone who ran lead acid for 10 years and over 5000 miles, lead pails in comparison to lithium and it has gotten so cheap now it is almost on par with lead. Amazon sells 100amp hour, 12v batteries with bms and a charger for less than $300 that can be series to 48V and the ones I bought seem to work great. If freezing is an issue make sure you spec one with freeze protection and consider getting 8 of them to make a parallel bank of two four packs because the bms limits you to 100 amp output.If you want to step up to a little higher quality, Signature Solar has a very nice 100amp, 48V, waterproof series with a whopping 5 kWhrs of usable energy for about $1600 each but again I'd consider getting two in parallel because of the 100amp limitation. I've got both systems on the Arc and performance wise I can't tell the difference but I'm guessing the cheap batteries won't last as long. Time will tell but I'm telling you, don't waste your money on AGMs because unless you need cold cranking amps for a big ICE, lead is dead, imo.Capt. Carterwww.shipofimagination.comOn Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 09:53:52 AM EDT, julienweiller via groups.io <julienweiller=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:Greetings!
Looking for recommendations to go hybrid (series, not parallel) .
I will need a 48 v electric propulsion plus adequate diesel generator/range extender for a 15000 pound full keel 30 footer sailboat, 24"6" waterline, hull speed 6.5 kn (Baba 30).
Getting rid of actual engine, a 3 cylinders 30 hp diesel.
Plan is to start with 4 x 12v 150 Ah AGM (just enough to go dock down the basin)
Switch to high kWh lithium in the future for ocean sailingWill also add solar to the equation.
I am looking for a diesel generator/range extender that could pretty much keep the batteries up while motoring.So, that's a lot of questions at once:
1 motor ?
2 compatible AGM/lithium controller ?
3 diesel generator?
4 solar?
5 lithium batteries?
6 compatible with all the above +220/110 charger?
7 BMS added if not battery integrated?
Sorry if this is a repeat question but it's 2023 and it seems that technology is fast evolving!
Pretty please: no 96 nor 72 volts suggestions I am sticking with 48, 52 max.All best and in advance, much thanks!
Thursday, March 23, 2023
Re: [electricboats] Recommendation for 48 v inboard motor + generator.
Re: [electricboats] Recommendation for 48 v inboard motor + generator.
Greetings!
Looking for recommendations to go hybrid (series, not parallel) .
I will need a 48 v electric propulsion plus adequate diesel generator/range extender for a 15000 pound full keel 30 footer sailboat, 24"6" waterline, hull speed 6.5 kn (Baba 30).
Getting rid of actual engine, a 3 cylinders 30 hp diesel.
Plan is to start with 4 x 12v 150 Ah AGM (just enough to go dock down the basin)
Switch to high kWh lithium in the future for ocean sailing
Will also add solar to the equation.
I am looking for a diesel generator/range extender that could pretty much keep the batteries up while motoring.
So, that's a lot of questions at once:
1 motor ?
2 compatible AGM/lithium controller ?
3 diesel generator?
4 solar?
5 lithium batteries?
6 compatible with all the above +220/110 charger?
7 BMS added if not battery integrated?
Sorry if this is a repeat question but it's 2023 and it seems that technology is fast evolving!
Pretty please: no 96 nor 72 volts suggestions I am sticking with 48, 52 max.
All best and in advance, much thanks!
Re: [electricboats] Recommendation for 48 v inboard motor + generator.
On Mar 23, 2023, at 9:03 AM, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@pfeiffer.net> wrote:I'll second the suggestion for the Thunderstruck 12kW kit. I used that in my Pearson 10M (12,400 lbs) with great success. With the 10kW motor I would be running at 70-8% for standard cruise. It's more like 50-60% with the 12kW. It's not using less power but it is at a more moderate load for the components in the system. Also I have more reserve power for the occasional needs (like a choppy entrance). The 12kW is liquid cooled with adds some complexity but I think it's the only way to get reasonable sustained cruising speed in a boat this size or larger. If you're content with being constrained to 3-4 knots then the 10kW might do. But you'll be pushing it hard to get more speed if needed.
If you already have the AGM batteries then by all means use them. If not don't waste your money. Go straight to LiFePo4. Over the lifetime of the batteries they will be cheaper. And your usable capacity (and range) will be almost double for the same size AH bank. I built my own 48v from 16 cells in series. There are a lot more off-the-shelf options around now. But the cost savings would still lead me to build. See details on my battery here:
http://dan.pfeiffer.net/10m/electric_drive_battery.htm
Lots of details on my installation here including component choices, reduction drive, cooling system, costs, performance...
http://dan.pfeiffer.net/10m/electric_drive.htm
I got a 2nd 12kW motor to use as a generator with a 3cyl Kubota diesel I have (18hp) but have not built the genset yet. The diesel is very compact and I figured I could get a 10-12kW 48VDC generator from the combo. After 2 seasons of use I think a smaller genset would do fine. Maybe 5-6kW. I could motor at decent cruising speed with that. Your use may be different. Genset info:
http://dan.pfeiffer.net/10m/diesel_genset.htm
I like to think of the electric drive system in terms of limits. You run into limits everywhere in the process. Understanding them will guide you in the selection of components. I have tried to organize my thoughts on limits here:
http://dan.pfeiffer.net/10m/electric_drive_limits.htm
Good luck, we're all counting on you...
Dan Pfeiffer
Greetings!
Looking for recommendations to go hybrid (series, not parallel) .
I will need a 48 v electric propulsion plus adequate diesel generator/range extender for a 15000 pound full keel 30 footer sailboat, 24"6" waterline, hull speed 6.5 kn (Baba 30).
Getting rid of actual engine, a 3 cylinders 30 hp diesel.
Plan is to start with 4 x 12v 150 Ah AGM (just enough to go dock down the basin)
Switch to high kWh lithium in the future for ocean sailingWill also add solar to the equation.
I am looking for a diesel generator/range extender that could pretty much keep the batteries up while motoring.So, that's a lot of questions at once:
1 motor ?
2 compatible AGM/lithium controller ?
3 diesel generator?
4 solar?
5 lithium batteries?
6 compatible with all the above +220/110 charger?
7 BMS added if not battery integrated?
Sorry if this is a repeat question but it's 2023 and it seems that technology is fast evolving!
Pretty please: no 96 nor 72 volts suggestions I am sticking with 48, 52 max.
All best and in advance, much thanks!
Re: [electricboats] Recommendation for 48 v inboard motor + generator.
I'll second the suggestion for the Thunderstruck 12kW kit. I used that in my Pearson 10M (12,400 lbs) with great success. With the 10kW motor I would be running at 70-8% for standard cruise. It's more like 50-60% with the 12kW. It's not using less power but it is at a more moderate load for the components in the system. Also I have more reserve power for the occasional needs (like a choppy entrance). The 12kW is liquid cooled with adds some complexity but I think it's the only way to get reasonable sustained cruising speed in a boat this size or larger. If you're content with being constrained to 3-4 knots then the 10kW might do. But you'll be pushing it hard to get more speed if needed.
If you already have the AGM batteries then by all means use them. If not don't waste your money. Go straight to LiFePo4. Over the lifetime of the batteries they will be cheaper. And your usable capacity (and range) will be almost double for the same size AH bank. I built my own 48v from 16 cells in series. There are a lot more off-the-shelf options around now. But the cost savings would still lead me to build. See details on my battery here:
http://dan.pfeiffer.net/10m/electric_drive_battery.htm
Lots of details on my installation here including component choices, reduction drive, cooling system, costs, performance...
http://dan.pfeiffer.net/10m/electric_drive.htm
I got a 2nd 12kW motor to use as a generator with a 3cyl Kubota diesel I have (18hp) but have not built the genset yet. The diesel is very compact and I figured I could get a 10-12kW 48VDC generator from the combo. After 2 seasons of use I think a smaller genset would do fine. Maybe 5-6kW. I could motor at decent cruising speed with that. Your use may be different. Genset info:
http://dan.pfeiffer.net/10m/diesel_genset.htm
I like to think of the electric drive system in terms of limits. You run into limits everywhere in the process. Understanding them will guide you in the selection of components. I have tried to organize my thoughts on limits here:
http://dan.pfeiffer.net/10m/electric_drive_limits.htm
Good luck, we're all counting on you...
Dan Pfeiffer
Greetings!
Looking for recommendations to go hybrid (series, not parallel) .
I will need a 48 v electric propulsion plus adequate diesel generator/range extender for a 15000 pound full keel 30 footer sailboat, 24”6“ waterline, hull speed 6.5 kn (Baba 30).
Getting rid of actual engine, a 3 cylinders 30 hp diesel.
Plan is to start with 4 x 12v 150 Ah AGM (just enough to go dock down the basin)
Switch to high kWh lithium in the future for ocean sailingWill also add solar to the equation.
I am looking for a diesel generator/range extender that could pretty much keep the batteries up while motoring.So, that’s a lot of questions at once:
1 motor ?
2 compatible AGM/lithium controller ?
3 diesel generator?
4 solar?
5 lithium batteries?
6 compatible with all the above +220/110 charger?
7 BMS added if not battery integrated?
Sorry if this is a repeat question but it’s 2023 and it seems that technology is fast evolving!
Pretty please: no 96 nor 72 volts suggestions I am sticking with 48, 52 max.
All best and in advance, much thanks!
Re: [electricboats] Recommendation for 48 v inboard motor + generator.
[Edited Message Follows]
I went with the Thunderstruck 10Kw kit in my Kirby 30, it's working great. The boat's lighter than yours (~6,000 lbs) so you'd probably want to go with their 12KW kit, the only issue is that it's liquid cooled.I'm using 3 Dakota Lithium 48V/96 Ah batteries with Victron MPPT controllers and 6 110W panels on my deck when I'm not using the boat. I race the boat 1-2 nights/week and daysail one day on the weekend, I found that I only needed to charge the batteries once per month.
I went with LIFEPO4 since I use my boat mostly for racing and was not into taking the weight penalty. When we brought the boat from Bowmanville to Toronto in light winds last year we used about 70% of the battery capacity (motoring at 4-5 knots for 9 hours in flat water). Unless you're doing a ton of long distance cruising, I'd hold off on the diesel generator.
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Re: [electricboats] Recommendation for 48 v inboard motor + generator.
I'm using 3 Dakota Lithium 48V/96 Ah batteries with Victron MPPT controllers and 6 110W panels on my deck when I'm not using the boat. I race the boat 1-2 nights/week and daysail one day on the weekend, I found that I only needed to charge the batteries once per month.
I went with LIFEPO4 since I use my boat mostly for racing and was not into taking the weight penalty. When we brought the boat from Bowmanville to Toronto in light winds last year we used about 70% of the battery capacity (motoring at 4-5 knots for 9 hours in flat water). Unless you're doing a ton of long distance cruising, I'd hold off on the diesel generator.
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Wednesday, March 22, 2023
[electricboats] Recommendation for 48 v inboard motor + generator.
Greetings!
Looking for recommendations to go hybrid (series, not parallel) .
I will need a 48 v electric propulsion plus adequate diesel generator/range extender for a 15000 pound full keel 30 footer sailboat, 24”6“ waterline, hull speed 6.5 kn (Baba 30).
Getting rid of actual engine, a 3 cylinders 30 hp diesel.
Plan is to start with 4 x 12v 150 Ah AGM (just enough to go dock down the basin)
Switch to high kWh lithium in the future for ocean sailing
Will also add solar to the equation.
I am looking for a diesel generator/range extender that could pretty much keep the batteries up while motoring.
So, that’s a lot of questions at once:
1 motor ?
2 compatible AGM/lithium controller ?
3 diesel generator?
4 solar?
5 lithium batteries?
6 compatible with all the above +220/110 charger?
7 BMS added if not battery integrated?
Sorry if this is a repeat question but it’s 2023 and it seems that technology is fast evolving!
Pretty please: no 96 nor 72 volts suggestions I am sticking with 48, 52 max.
All best and in advance, much thanks!
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You receive all messages sent to this group.
View/Reply Online (#32275) | Reply To Group | Reply To Sender | Mute This Topic | New Topic
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