Wednesday, March 29, 2017

Re: [Electric Boats] The plan

 

Define how slow is slow.  Anytime you are thinking about a trolling motor understand that no matter how big you will still be going trolling speed. You will likely have enough thrust and I understand you don' t want or need power boat speeds but understand that you do not get anywhere fast at trolling speed.

Nick b



Sent from my Bell Samsung device over Canada's largest network.


-------- Original message --------
From: "Grant Corson corson34@comcast.net [electricboats]" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 2017-03-29 2:55 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] The plan

 

DOUG, I would recommend caution in using the system you described. In addition, lithium batteries are lighter, but they only need to be installed once, so weight should not be an issue as they should be recharged right on the boat. Lead acid, gel, flooded cell are heavy but much cheaper. I would recommend two 12v batteries and a 24v 80 lb thrust motor for your boat and as others have advised, windage will be an issue with your houseboat. Good luck and keep us posted.


From: <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of "2vfvzwoxexqg3ileeagcjlt2apwqwsqrp2evhgvv@yahoo.com [electricboats]" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 10:01 AM
To: <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Electric Boats] The plan

 

Good morning folks.

I have an 18' trailerable Hobo houseboat that needs a new power train.

For many reasons, I think electric is the best way to go...the biggest reason no doubt influenced in large part due to my own personal strength limitations after suffering a stroke in the last couple of years.

Trolling motors are not very heavy and Lithium batteries weigh much less than your standard lead acid ones.

The plan is to locate a used 12v trolling motor with the "best thrust for the buck"
and power it with a Lithium battery pack used for e bikes and mobility devices.
These battery packs are often available in voltages more than 12v (36, 48 etc.)

Can a 12v motor be hooked up directly to a higher voltage battery without modifications? Benefits of better efficiency at using higher voltage regarding speed and range?

So is this doable and what should I expect to see happen? Tips?

My boat weighs under 2,000lbs and I have lost the need for speed I had in my youth.

Regards,
Doug
   


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Re: [Electric Boats] The plan

 

DOUG, I would recommend caution in using the system you described. In addition, lithium batteries are lighter, but they only need to be installed once, so weight should not be an issue as they should be recharged right on the boat. Lead acid, gel, flooded cell are heavy but much cheaper. I would recommend two 12v batteries and a 24v 80 lb thrust motor for your boat and as others have advised, windage will be an issue with your houseboat. Good luck and keep us posted.


From: <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of "2vfvzwoxexqg3ileeagcjlt2apwqwsqrp2evhgvv@yahoo.com [electricboats]" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 10:01 AM
To: <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Electric Boats] The plan

 

Good morning folks.

I have an 18' trailerable Hobo houseboat that needs a new power train.

For many reasons, I think electric is the best way to go...the biggest reason no doubt influenced in large part due to my own personal strength limitations after suffering a stroke in the last couple of years.

Trolling motors are not very heavy and Lithium batteries weigh much less than your standard lead acid ones.

The plan is to locate a used 12v trolling motor with the "best thrust for the buck"
and power it with a Lithium battery pack used for e bikes and mobility devices.
These battery packs are often available in voltages more than 12v (36, 48 etc.)

Can a 12v motor be hooked up directly to a higher voltage battery without modifications? Benefits of better efficiency at using higher voltage regarding speed and range?

So is this doable and what should I expect to see happen? Tips?

My boat weighs under 2,000lbs and I have lost the need for speed I had in my youth.

Regards,
Doug
   


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Posted by: Grant Corson <corson34@comcast.net>
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RE: [Electric Boats] Re: Upgrading to 3 phase from 180 dc 3hp Leeson with Kb controller

 

We're living at a good time for options as regards repowering a boat to electric…I've been running mine now with a 48v ETEK brush motor and an ALLTRAX AXE4834 controller (e.g. this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-AXE4834-Alltrax-Motor-Controller-AXE-4834-300-Amp-/272198962683?hash=item3f60528dfb:g:F1YAAMXQAF5RgOWw ) since 2003 without any hitches.

I'd love to switch to one of the other options, but there's little incentive for me J.

 

 

From: electricboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:electricboats@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 6:02 PM
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Upgrading to 3 phase from 180 dc 3hp Leeson with Kb controller

 

 

Hey there,

I am using Curtis 1268-5501 controllers in my twin driven tug under construction.  They are a bit pricy, in the $700-1200 range.  I bought a pair of fried ones and had FSIP rebuild them, good as new.  It cost me about half of the new or eBay price.  I even have a couple spares.  Might consider selling one.  I have about $375-400 in them.  I know there are a lot of controllers out there, Kelly, Chinese, Curtis, whatever...  I am pleased with the Curtis.  And the 1268 is good for regen in your case.  Hardy unit, and turnaround is usually less than two weeks in a worst case.  FSIP is great to work with too.  I haven't had a chance to test my boat in water yet, so I can only tell you what I have seen.  FYI, about 75% of the NEVs and golf cars use Curtis in my estimation.  That is my 2-bits.  It is worth just what you paid for it...

Dan

 

 

From: orest@albernicharters.com [electricboats]

Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 11:01 PM

Subject: [Electric Boats] Re: Upgrading to 3 phase from 180 dc 3hp Leeson with Kb controller

 

 

Huge advantage: HPEV  AC-9 3 phase would regenerate my 48 volt bank while under the big diesel. This doesn't apply to most folks here because sailors wouldn't have a dig diesel and an electric motor. 

  Curtis controler choices between 450  and 600 amps? My requirements aren't that great 2.8 knots into a bit of wave may only take under 1.5 - 1.7 KW touching 2KW occasionally. Will I kick myself for not getting a bigger motor?  I'll be using it all day and intend to get an automatic cooling fan.  Then there are the oil cooled systems ????  

 

Is the holy grail in here somewhere?

 

 

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Posted by: "Myles Twete" <matwete@comcast.net>
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Tuesday, March 28, 2017

Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Upgrading to 3 phase from 180 dc 3hp Leeson with Kb controller

 

Hey there,
I am using Curtis 1268-5501 controllers in my twin driven tug under construction.  They are a bit pricy, in the $700-1200 range.  I bought a pair of fried ones and had FSIP rebuild them, good as new.  It cost me about half of the new or eBay price.  I even have a couple spares.  Might consider selling one.  I have about $375-400 in them.  I know there are a lot of controllers out there, Kelly, Chinese, Curtis, whatever...  I am pleased with the Curtis.  And the 1268 is good for regen in your case.  Hardy unit, and turnaround is usually less than two weeks in a worst case.  FSIP is great to work with too.  I haven't had a chance to test my boat in water yet, so I can only tell you what I have seen.  FYI, about 75% of the NEVs and golf cars use Curtis in my estimation.  That is my 2-bits.  It is worth just what you paid for it...
Dan
 
 
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 11:01 PM
Subject: [Electric Boats] Re: Upgrading to 3 phase from 180 dc 3hp Leeson with Kb controller
 
 

Huge advantage: HPEV  AC-9 3 phase would regenerate my 48 volt bank while under the big diesel. This doesn't apply to most folks here because sailors wouldn't have a dig diesel and an electric motor. 

  Curtis controler choices between 450  and 600 amps? My requirements aren't that great 2.8 knots into a bit of wave may only take under 1.5 - 1.7 KW touching 2KW occasionally. Will I kick myself for not getting a bigger motor?  I'll be using it all day and intend to get an automatic cooling fan.  Then there are the oil cooled systems ????  
 
Is the holy grail in here somewhere?
 
 

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Posted by: "Dan Hennis" <dhennis@centurytel.net>
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[Electric Boats] Re: The plan

 

Yes, and no. Moderate overvolting is okayish but you will shorten the motor life. Run a 12v motor direct from a 48v pack, and it will probably suffer an immediate meltdown in spite of the fact that the motor is submerged in coolant. (water) I am just guessing on that but I wouldn't try it, and if you do, please let us know how you made out.

BUT... by using a cheap PWM controller you can use a 48v pack to supply "virtual" 12 volts to the motor. This is particularly practical with a cheap motor that uses a resistor network for speed control. As you can imagine, these motors are horribly inefficient except when ran wide open. So leave the built in throttle wide open, and feed it with a PWM controller, for constantly variable min-max power control and better efficiency. You have to keep the power level down to what the motor can handle. With the PWM controller running full throttle, you will still toast the motor. I think.

Better yet, get a 36v trolling motor and run it via PWM controller from a 36v ebike battery. No worries there and you get a lot more power. You can't overvolt the motor that way. You could of course install a bank of deep cycle flooded cell lead acid batteries, and get more range. An ebike battery makes excellent emergency get-home power. They are expensive, for what you are getting, but they are light, compact, and portable, making them okay for emergency power. Best bang for the buck in my experience is golf cart batteries. With 8 6v golf cart batteries, if you motor at about 2-1/2 kts, I would almost bet you can run from can see to can't see.

Some bigger trolling motors and more expensive small ones have built in PWM control, making them quite efficient at low power settings without a bunch of rube goldberg wiring through an external controller.

If you like to tinker, consider building an electric outboard, using an old gasoline outboard carcass. There are a lot of excellent brushless and even brushed motors that run nicely (via controller) off a 48v bank. Or buy one ready made.

Torqueedo is another good option.

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Re: [Electric Boats] The plan

 

No, you can not use higher voltage on a 12v motor, it will overheat. 
Trolling motor might work for very short trips, but I would go with a torqueedo 2.0, if money is not an issue. 
Trolling motors are inefficient, and probably not powerful enough.
If you like tinkering, you can modify an outboard to electric.
You need at least 2000 watt motor, and I would try and get around 3000 watts or higher, so you have extra power for when wind and current are against you.


On Mar 28, 2017 06:16, "2vfvzwoxexqg3ileeagcjlt2apwqwsqrp2evhgvv@yahoo.com [electricboats]" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Good morning folks.

I have an 18' trailerable Hobo houseboat that needs a new power train.

For many reasons, I think electric is the best way to go...the biggest reason no doubt influenced in large part due to my own personal strength limitations after suffering a stroke in the last couple of years.

Trolling motors are not very heavy and Lithium batteries weigh much less than your standard lead acid ones.

The plan is to locate a used 12v trolling motor with the "best thrust for the buck"
and power it with a Lithium battery pack used for e bikes and mobility devices.
These battery packs are often available in voltages more than 12v (36, 48 etc.)

Can a 12v motor be hooked up directly to a higher voltage battery without modifications? Benefits of better efficiency at using higher voltage regarding speed and range?

So is this doable and what should I expect to see happen? Tips?

My boat weighs under 2,000lbs and I have lost the need for speed I had in my youth.

Regards,
Doug
   



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Posted by: Kev <captainyoung@gmail.com>
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Re: [Electric Boats] The plan

 

Depends on how far you are going. You may also look at a self contained outboard. They are not very heavy and will give you more power. It's not how fast you go but how strong the wind is against you. Look in the 2 to 4 go range.


 

Good morning folks.

I have an 18' trailerable Hobo houseboat that needs a new power train.

For many reasons, I think electric is the best way to go...the biggest reason no doubt influenced in large part due to my own personal strength limitations after suffering a stroke in the last couple of years.

Trolling motors are not very heavy and Lithium batteries weigh much less than your standard lead acid ones.

The plan is to locate a used 12v trolling motor with the "best thrust for the buck"
and power it with a Lithium battery pack used for e bikes and mobility devices.
These battery packs are often available in voltages more than 12v (36, 48 etc.)

Can a 12v motor be hooked up directly to a higher voltage battery without modifications? Benefits of better efficiency at using higher voltage regarding speed and range?

So is this doable and what should I expect to see happen? Tips?

My boat weighs under 2,000lbs and I have lost the need for speed I had in my youth.

Regards,
Doug
   


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Posted by: Daniel Michaels <nov32394@yahoo.com>
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.

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