Wednesday, November 30, 2016

Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Newport Vessel trolling motors spec sheet

 

Actually, it's the 1003.  Don't know that they make 1005:-(.


Eric SV Menader



---In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, <cirejay@...> wrote :

John,

I quite agree.  I have a  high pressure floor inflatable, 8.5', with a Torqeedo  1005.  I love the motor but the only way it would push the dingy 13 mph would be with a 7 knot current.


1200W is 1.6hp.  No way, just ain't going happen

Eric SV Meander




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Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Newport Vessel trolling motors spec sheet

 

Here it is.  I have not done "scientific" calcs. but I'm guessing about 30-40%  more efficient.  Motors are 82lb. Motor Guides.  Hull is Redwing 18.  4.5 mph but that's more a factor of the hull than the motors/props.  Glenn Holland
 

Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2016 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Newport Vessel trolling motors spec sheet

 

I definitely agree with the Torqeedo being tough on the budget.

I'd love to see what the performance difference would be if you put a Torqeedo prop on a $300 trolling motor.   :)    If I ever get bored and have more time on my hands and access to a machine shop...   :)   That would be the first experiment I'd try.

I'd also love to try doing an outboard conversion.  But again... time....

John


From: "bruce thomas mosslandingcreatures@gmail.com [electricboats]" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2016 1:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Newport Vessel trolling motors spec sheet

 
 Thank you everyone for your timely advice. If I buy the 85 pound motor I will publish a picture of the boat along with its speed outcome. I would love to have a torquedo but the cruise 2.0 with external battery power is $4,000.00! Hard to justify.

Bruce

Sent from my iPad

On Nov 28, 2016, at 9:31 PM, Kev captainyoung@gmail.com [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
So, the fact is that the 86lb trolling motor is probably a 1000 watt motor, since it requires a 50 amp breaker. 50 amps x 24 volts = 1200 watts.
So the motor is about 1.3 horsepower. Is it possible to get on a plane with that small amount of power, maybe, will it happen with a person and 100+ lbs of batteries, in a big fat dinghy, with a trolling prop, doubt it.
The propellor efficiency is horrible on trolling motors, the motors are inefficient brushed motors, so some of that power is wasted as heat. If you want your rib to get on a plane, gas or torqueedo are your options. The torqueedo cruise 2.0 is 2000 watts and as they state, equivalent to a 5 hp gas outboard.
http://www.torqeedo.com/us/en-us/technology-and-environment/performance-and-efficiency.html
So the 86lb trolling motor, would equal 2.5hp, based on there comparison, but it is no where near as efficient as torqueedo. And torqueedo doesnt have all the battery weight either.
I would save your money and keep the small trolling motor. Your current 400 watt motor pushes you at 4 knots, the 1000 watt motor will probably get you to 5 knots.
If you do get it, i would be interested in your results.

On Nov 28, 2016 08:13, "bruce thomas mosslandingcreatures@gmail.com [electricboats]" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
Ah yes simplicity. Has anyone looked at the Newport Vessel (trolling motors) website? There is a light and dark blue chart that shows what you can expect in hull speed with each model offered? When I ask them are they doing it with pitch, diameter, or RPM they told me they really couldn't say. They go from the 36 pound thrust that will push an 8.8 foot boat at 4.04 mph to an 86 pound that advertises a hull speed of 13.67 mph for a 13.8 foot boat !  There is even a video beneath the chart showing showing an inflatable being pushed thru the water at different speeds. High speed looks pretty fast! I currently have two 135 ah batteries ahead of my 40 pound Newport Vessel motor on my powered rowboat that runs my boat at around 4 knots and am interested in upgrading to the 86 lb to TRIPLE my hull speed. Can anyone help to explain to me how approximately doubling thrust to 86 lbs will triple my hull speed? Has anyone read the chart? Am I misinterpreting it? I would be extatic if my 9 foot RIB rowboat could go 13 mph with an 86 pound Newport Vessel trolling motor ! Let me know what you think. I am about to buy an 86 pound from them but thought I would ask you all first.

Bruce


Sent from my iPad

On Nov 27, 2016, at 5:06 PM, John Acord jcacord@gmail.com [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com > wrote:

 
What ever happened to good simple instrumentation? 

Most anything you want to know about your system can be done with sensors and minimal electronics.  There is a lot of stuff out there for things like the Pi that are excellent building blocks.  (Didn't someone on the list said you can easily read canbus with a Pi?)

Thermal sensors, rotational sensors, shunts and voltmeters can tell you most of what you need to know about your system.

Half the fun of electric boating is what you can do simple.  :-) 

John A

--
Flatwater Electronics
www.flatwaterfarm.com
"Neurosurgery for computer looms."


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Posted by: "Glenn Holland" <gholland1@nc.rr.com>
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Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Newport Vessel trolling motors spec sheet

 

I definitely agree with the Torqeedo being tough on the budget.

I'd love to see what the performance difference would be if you put a Torqeedo prop on a $300 trolling motor.   :)    If I ever get bored and have more time on my hands and access to a machine shop...   :)   That would be the first experiment I'd try.

I'd also love to try doing an outboard conversion.  But again... time....

John


From: "bruce thomas mosslandingcreatures@gmail.com [electricboats]" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2016 1:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Newport Vessel trolling motors spec sheet

 
 Thank you everyone for your timely advice. If I buy the 85 pound motor I will publish a picture of the boat along with its speed outcome. I would love to have a torquedo but the cruise 2.0 with external battery power is $4,000.00! Hard to justify.

Bruce

Sent from my iPad

On Nov 28, 2016, at 9:31 PM, Kev captainyoung@gmail.com [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
So, the fact is that the 86lb trolling motor is probably a 1000 watt motor, since it requires a 50 amp breaker. 50 amps x 24 volts = 1200 watts.
So the motor is about 1.3 horsepower. Is it possible to get on a plane with that small amount of power, maybe, will it happen with a person and 100+ lbs of batteries, in a big fat dinghy, with a trolling prop, doubt it.
The propellor efficiency is horrible on trolling motors, the motors are inefficient brushed motors, so some of that power is wasted as heat. If you want your rib to get on a plane, gas or torqueedo are your options. The torqueedo cruise 2.0 is 2000 watts and as they state, equivalent to a 5 hp gas outboard.
http://www.torqeedo.com/us/en-us/technology-and-environment/performance-and-efficiency.html
So the 86lb trolling motor, would equal 2.5hp, based on there comparison, but it is no where near as efficient as torqueedo. And torqueedo doesnt have all the battery weight either.
I would save your money and keep the small trolling motor. Your current 400 watt motor pushes you at 4 knots, the 1000 watt motor will probably get you to 5 knots.
If you do get it, i would be interested in your results.

On Nov 28, 2016 08:13, "bruce thomas mosslandingcreatures@gmail.com [electricboats]" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
Ah yes simplicity. Has anyone looked at the Newport Vessel (trolling motors) website? There is a light and dark blue chart that shows what you can expect in hull speed with each model offered? When I ask them are they doing it with pitch, diameter, or RPM they told me they really couldn't say. They go from the 36 pound thrust that will push an 8.8 foot boat at 4.04 mph to an 86 pound that advertises a hull speed of 13.67 mph for a 13.8 foot boat !  There is even a video beneath the chart showing showing an inflatable being pushed thru the water at different speeds. High speed looks pretty fast! I currently have two 135 ah batteries ahead of my 40 pound Newport Vessel motor on my powered rowboat that runs my boat at around 4 knots and am interested in upgrading to the 86 lb to TRIPLE my hull speed. Can anyone help to explain to me how approximately doubling thrust to 86 lbs will triple my hull speed? Has anyone read the chart? Am I misinterpreting it? I would be extatic if my 9 foot RIB rowboat could go 13 mph with an 86 pound Newport Vessel trolling motor ! Let me know what you think. I am about to buy an 86 pound from them but thought I would ask you all first.

Bruce


Sent from my iPad

On Nov 27, 2016, at 5:06 PM, John Acord jcacord@gmail.com [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com > wrote:

 
What ever happened to good simple instrumentation? 

Most anything you want to know about your system can be done with sensors and minimal electronics.  There is a lot of stuff out there for things like the Pi that are excellent building blocks.  (Didn't someone on the list said you can easily read canbus with a Pi?)

Thermal sensors, rotational sensors, shunts and voltmeters can tell you most of what you need to know about your system.

Half the fun of electric boating is what you can do simple.  :-) 

John A

--
Flatwater Electronics
www.flatwaterfarm.com
"Neurosurgery for computer looms."


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Posted by: oak <oak_box@yahoo.com>
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Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Newport Vessel trolling motors spec sheet

 

I got a good chuckle out of the 7 knot current thought. I'm going to make this scientific (as much as a non scientist can) by buying the 85 pound Newport Vessel motor. I have an iPad with an app for GPS speed. I am going to take my boat (11 foot) out in slack water, put it on high speed and report the results. Perhaps the factory somehow put the (transom mount) motor on a SUP with a 8 year old(or midget) aboard for their test with a custom prop...that would not necessarily be false advertising because they may have said "up to". Regardless I will let you know...maybe with a video?

Bruce

Sent from my iPad

On Nov 30, 2016, at 5:49 AM, cirejay@hotmail.com [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

John,

I quite agree.  I have a  high pressure floor inflatable, 8.5', with a Torqeedo  1005.  I love the motor but the only way it would push the dingy 13 mph would be with a 7 knot current.


1200W is 1.6hp.  No way, just ain't going happen

Eric SV Meander



---In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, <oak_box@...> wrote :

I'd really be curious to see some documented evidence of 13+mph on a 6.5' dingy of ANY kind with a trolling motor.

Maybe that's the "theoretical" speed of the prop if it was 100% efficient???
But if my calculations are correct, hull speed of a 6.5' dingy is somewhere around 4mph.  Getting three times that with a trolling motor at 1200W just does not seem very likely at all.

If anyone has a small dingy in the Austin, Texas area, I have a 24V and a 48V Torqeedo that I'd be willing to mount on it and see what it will do.

John



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Posted by: bruce thomas <mosslandingcreatures@gmail.com>
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Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Newport Vessel trolling motors spec sheet

 

John,

I quite agree.  I have a  high pressure floor inflatable, 8.5', with a Torqeedo  1005.  I love the motor but the only way it would push the dingy 13 mph would be with a 7 knot current.


1200W is 1.6hp.  No way, just ain't going happen

Eric SV Meander



---In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, <oak_box@...> wrote :

I'd really be curious to see some documented evidence of 13+mph on a 6.5' dingy of ANY kind with a trolling motor.

Maybe that's the "theoretical" speed of the prop if it was 100% efficient???
But if my calculations are correct, hull speed of a 6.5' dingy is somewhere around 4mph.  Getting three times that with a trolling motor at 1200W just does not seem very likely at all.

If anyone has a small dingy in the Austin, Texas area, I have a 24V and a 48V Torqeedo that I'd be willing to mount on it and see what it will do.

John



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Posted by: cirejay@hotmail.com
Reply via web post • Reply to sender • Reply to group • Start a New Topic • Messages in this topic (33)
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With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage.

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Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Newport Vessel trolling motors spec sheet

 


If it's speed you want, check these solardriven 'boats' :   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEj23uCo-BQ



On 30-Nov-16 1:21 AM, oak oak_box@yahoo.com [electricboats] wrote:
 
I'd really be curious to see some documented evidence of 13+mph on a 6.5' dingy of ANY kind with a trolling motor.

Maybe that's the "theoretical" speed of the prop if it was 100% efficient???
But if my calculations are correct, hull speed of a 6.5' dingy is somewhere around 4mph.  Getting three times that with a trolling motor at 1200W just does not seem very likely at all.

If anyone has a small dingy in the Austin, Texas area, I have a 24V and a 48V Torqeedo that I'd be willing to mount on it and see what it will do.

John


From: "63urban 63urban@gmail.com [electricboats]" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
To: "electricboats@yahoogroups.com" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2016 5:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Newport Vessel trolling motors spec sheet

 
Kipawa only added marginal speed to my 50lb minnkota .  it's definitely got more power and control with the kipawa but only a bit more speed.

Nick b



Sent from my Bell Samsung device over Canada's largest network.


-------- Original message --------
From: "'Jason (Electric Boats) Taylor' jt.yahoo@jtaylor.ca [electricboats]" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 2016-11-29 2:36 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Newport Vessel trolling motors spec sheet

 
You're thinking of Kipawa. 
Their props are pitched for speed. 

As for a prop hub and machinable blanks, I am thinking 3D printing. 
At the low power levels of trolling motors, 3D printed PLA or PC ought to be amply strong enough. 
There is a design on Thingiverse for a modular hub. I can play with the blades and  print different pitches for testing and getting the optimal efficiency/speed combination. 

--
Jason Taylor
v:514-815-8204

On Nov 28, 2016, at 16:06, bruce thomas mosslandingcreatures@gmail.com [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
Thank you Nic I bought a Kiowa? prop for my old minn Kota C-2 and it helped somewhat, but Kiowa doesn't make a prop to fit Newport Vessels trolling motors. With all the discussion that goes on with this site...perhaps someone will make an aluminum prop (with blank hub to machine as preferenced) with pitches and diameters suitable for our groups wishes. Perhaps there is someone already making them? ..I would love to buy one.

Bruce

Sent from my iPad

On Nov 28, 2016, at 12:42 PM, 63urban 63urban@gmail.com [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
I have no doubt that the motor could get your rib to that speed but it may need a different prop. my hobie mirage tandem island 20' and loaded to about 650 lbs will do about 4mph with a 50 lb minkota with no stress at all. I am quite sure that with a different  prop I could get about 6 to 10 with out loading the motor but nobody  makes such a prop so I guess I need to figure it out myself.

Nick



Sent from my Bell Samsung device over Canada's largest network.


-------- Original message --------
From: "bruce thomas mosslandingcreatures@gmail.com [electricboats]" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 2016-11-28 6:33 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Electric Boats] Re: Newport Vessel trolling motors spec sheet

 
Ah yes simplicity. Has anyone looked at the Newport Vessel (trolling motors) website? There is a light and dark blue chart that shows what you can expect in hull speed with each model offered? When I ask them are they doing it with pitch, diameter, or RPM they told me they really couldn't say. They go from the 36 pound thrust that will push an 8.8 foot boat at 4.04 mph to an 86 pound that advertises a hull speed of 13.67 mph for a 13.8 foot boat !  There is even a video beneath the chart showing showing an inflatable being pushed thru the water at different speeds. High speed looks pretty fast! I currently have two 135 ah batteries ahead of my 40 pound Newport Vessel motor on my powered rowboat that runs my boat at around 4 knots and am interested in upgrading to the 86 lb to TRIPLE my hull speed. Can anyone help to explain to me how approximately doubling thrust to 86 lbs will triple my hull speed? Has anyone read the chart? Am I misinterpreting it? I would be extatic if my 9 foot RIB rowboat could go 13 mph with an 86 pound Newport Vessel trolling motor ! Let me know what you think. I am about to buy an 86 pound from them but thought I would ask you all first.

Bruce


Sent from my iPad

On Nov 27, 2016, at 5:06 PM, John Acord jcacord@gmail.com [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
What ever happened to good simple instrumentation? 

Most anything you want to know about your system can be done with sensors and minimal electronics.  There is a lot of stuff out there for things like the Pi that are excellent building blocks.  (Didn't someone on the list said you can easily read canbus with a Pi?)

Thermal sensors, rotational sensors, shunts and voltmeters can tell you most of what you need to know about your system.

Half the fun of electric boating is what you can do simple.  :-) 

John A

--
Flatwater Electronics
www.flatwaterfarm.com
"Neurosurgery for computer looms."



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Posted by: JWM Bijlard <jwm.bijlard@gmail.com>
Reply via web post • Reply to sender • Reply to group • Start a New Topic • Messages in this topic (38)
Have you tried the highest rated email app?
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.

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