Sunday, February 24, 2013

Re: [Electric Boats] just posted some pics of a solar canoe project I'm working on

 

Since I steer with my feet on cable pedals that control the rudder, I always have my paddle in my hands and stroke every now and then. The motor is inside a drop in scupper, not visible and silent and the LiFePO4 cells are in a compartment, so I have no intention on reg here in California.

Bob

--- On Sun, 2/24/13, Carter Quillen <twowheelinguy@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Carter Quillen <twowheelinguy@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] just posted some pics of a solar canoe project I'm working on
To: "electricboats@yahoogroups.com" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, February 24, 2013, 1:15 PM



Nice ride and good idea but it will only be a canoe if you paddle it. Maybe California is different but I believe the defining term for when you need to register a boat in most states is if it has "a means of mechanical propulsion".  You can row it or paddle it but if it has any kind of motor, solar electric or ICE, you're going to be subject to having to register it.
 
But I'd just get out and use it until they hassle you in the mean time. Chances are you'll get at least one warning before they fine you and you might be able to get away with it.
 
Tell the lake patrol you thought California had  a "Green Tech" exemption or something. It's plausible.
 
Good luck.
 
Carter
From: dudevato <dudevato@yahoo.com>
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2013 3:35 PM
Subject: [Electric Boats] just posted some pics of a solar canoe project I'm working on

They are by 'dudevato' and named 'solar canoe II'  The framework is made from electrical conduit and plenty strong.  The 'outrigger' is a 9' windsurf board and will be de-tachable and mounted some 8' off the starboard, using more, lighter gauge conduit. And it will have seating and shade.

The 6 panels are 130 watts each.  I'll be able to give each of 2 30lbs of thrust 12 volt trolling motors either 1, 2 or 3 'panels of power'  What about running one motor 'forward' and the other in 'reverse'?  This thing ought to turn on a dime, uh?

Now if the Lake Patrol will call this thing a Canoe (no registration/$$ to the state of California) and leave me alone I'll be All Set  :)

'Maybe make a sign:  "Bottle of Beer & a Ride = $1.50"



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electricboats/

<*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electricboats/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
    electricboats-digest@yahoogroups.com
    electricboats-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    electricboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





__._,_.___
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic ()
.

__,_._,___
Posted by at No comments:

Re: [Electric Boats] just posted some pics of a solar canoe project I'm working on

 

Bob, the pics of the current project are here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electricboats/photos/album/1188443356/pic/list

The earlier one is here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electricboats/photos/album/1069934117/pic/list

I was told by the Forest Dept/State Lake people that canoes are OK if they don't have a permanently attached motor. If there is any problem I'll get the Tags, etc. Hey, it's only $$, good thing I have plenty!

I forgot to mention there is no battery in either of these things. So if the sun burns out I'm sunk, so to speak.

I've got a small Harbor Freight trailer that will get a loong tounge welded on and be pulled by my little Toyota motorhome.

'wouldn't trade this thing for any 35 foot twin Big Block Chevy Off Shore piece o $#!+ But I'll bet you feel the same way about your boats, uh? Pretty cool site here.

__._,_.___
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (4)
.

__,_._,___
Posted by at No comments:

Re: [Electric Boats] just posted some pics of a solar canoe project I'm working on

 

Nice ride and good idea but it will only be a canoe if you paddle it. Maybe California is different but I believe the defining term for when you need to register a boat in most states is if it has "a means of mechanical propulsion".  You can row it or paddle it but if it has any kind of motor, solar electric or ICE, you're going to be subject to having to register it.
 
But I'd just get out and use it until they hassle you in the mean time. Chances are you'll get at least one warning before they fine you and you might be able to get away with it.
 
Tell the lake patrol you thought California had  a "Green Tech" exemption or something. It's plausible.
 
Good luck.
 
Carter
From: dudevato <dudevato@yahoo.com>
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2013 3:35 PM
Subject: [Electric Boats] just posted some pics of a solar canoe project I'm working on

They are by 'dudevato' and named 'solar canoe II'  The framework is made from electrical conduit and plenty strong.  The 'outrigger' is a 9' windsurf board and will be de-tachable and mounted some 8' off the starboard, using more, lighter gauge conduit. And it will have seating and shade.

The 6 panels are 130 watts each.  I'll be able to give each of 2 30lbs of thrust 12 volt trolling motors either 1, 2 or 3 'panels of power'  What about running one motor 'forward' and the other in 'reverse'?  This thing ought to turn on a dime, uh?

Now if the Lake Patrol will call this thing a Canoe (no registration/$$ to the state of California) and leave me alone I'll be All Set  :)

'Maybe make a sign:  "Bottle of Beer & a Ride = $1.50"



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electricboats/

<*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electricboats/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
    electricboats-digest@yahoogroups.com
    electricboats-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    electricboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



__._,_.___
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (3)
.

__,_._,___
Posted by at No comments:

Re: [Electric Boats] just posted some pics of a solar canoe project I'm working on

 

Where might I find the pictures? I have an Ocean Torque kayak that I have set up with (8) 100 a-hr LiFePO4 cells for an 80 nm range. I carry an 8 lb switching PS lithium charger at 50 amps that will fill 4 cells in the time frame of a lunch and drink at a marina.

Bob

--- On Sun, 2/24/13, dudevato <dudevato@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: dudevato <dudevato@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Electric Boats] just posted some pics of a solar canoe project I'm working on
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, February 24, 2013, 12:35 PM

They are by 'dudevato' and named 'solar canoe II'  The framework is made from electrical conduit and plenty strong.  The 'outrigger' is a 9' windsurf board and will be de-tachable and mounted some 8' off the starboard, using more, lighter gauge conduit. And it will have seating and shade.

The 6 panels are 130 watts each.  I'll be able to give each of 2 30lbs of thrust 12 volt trolling motors either 1, 2 or 3 'panels of power'  What about running one motor 'forward' and the other in 'reverse'?  This thing ought to turn on a dime, uh?

Now if the Lake Patrol will call this thing a Canoe (no registration/$$ to the state of California) and leave me alone I'll be All Set  :)

'Maybe make a sign:  "Bottle of Beer & a Ride = $1.50"



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electricboats/

<*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electricboats/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
    electricboats-digest@yahoogroups.com
    electricboats-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    electricboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

__._,_.___
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (2)
.

__,_._,___
Posted by at No comments:

[Electric Boats] just posted some pics of a solar canoe project I'm working on

 

They are by 'dudevato' and named 'solar canoe II' The framework is made from electrical conduit and plenty strong. The 'outrigger' is a 9' windsurf board and will be de-tachable and mounted some 8' off the starboard, using more, lighter gauge conduit. And it will have seating and shade.

The 6 panels are 130 watts each. I'll be able to give each of 2 30lbs of thrust 12 volt trolling motors either 1, 2 or 3 'panels of power' What about running one motor 'forward' and the other in 'reverse'? This thing ought to turn on a dime, uh?

Now if the Lake Patrol will call this thing a Canoe (no registration/$$ to the state of California) and leave me alone I'll be All Set :)

'Maybe make a sign: "Bottle of Beer & a Ride = $1.50"

__._,_.___
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (1)
.

__,_._,___
Posted by at No comments:

Saturday, February 23, 2013

Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Fully electric, turn key boat - available yet?

 

Mike,
 
Thanks, your blog has been an inspiration to me as well.
 
The panels are mix of manufacturer and models but all of them are nominal 250W at a nominal 30 volts,(much less expensive than 12V panels) with two each in series and then paralleled and fed to an OutBack Flexmax 80 MPPT charge controller. I just installed the last four  aft panels last week and decided not to hook them up until I get the next Flexmax 80 because on a cool sunny day with the ability to track the sun I would likely exceed the capacity of the one I have right now. I may wire them up with a switch to engage them on cloudy days but the second Flexmax 80 is in the plan to be added soon so I'll probably jsut wait til then. When I do get it I will reconfigure the wiring for a port and starboard system with 50 amps each  feeding the two 80 amp controllers. This will reduce the loading on the controllers and give me some redundancy. I will also be adding another battery bank to have port and starboard storage as well, giving me additional system redundancy and flexablity.
 
If it hasn't become apparent by my postings, I'm on a very tight budget. As an unselfemployed HVAC engineer that is more inclined to kicking back in the cockpit than looking for work, these things take time but progress has been slow and steady and we're having fun as we go. We're a little behind our original schedule but are leaving for our cruise around Florida next week and looking forward to tackling the great loop after that next year.
 
We're going to try and circumnavigate Florida strictly on solar from Pensacola to Jacksonville and if that works, do the whole great loop without using a drop of fuel. Not sure it's even possible but we're going to try. Thought some guy in big solar powered trimaran called the Ra with  two torqueedo 4.Os was going to beat me to it last year but looks like he fell by the wayside after a couple hundred miles and I heard the boat just wasn't up to the task. Maybe he'll resurface this spring.
 
My experience has been that going strictly solar is not as easy as it sounds but I believe it can be done with patience and a little extra effort. We'll see.
 
Carter
 
 

From: Mike <biankablog@verizon.net>
To: "electricboats@yahoogroups.com" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 7:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Fully electric, turn key boat - available yet?



Carter:

Enjoyed reading your blog and project. At times kicking back in the cockpit I've wondered what a deck full of solar panels might do on my boat. Thanks for leading the way with that idea.   I was wondering how you have configured all those solar panels. I'm assuming they are all 12 volts. At what voltage have you configured them at the input to the controller? I think you mentioned your motor/batteries were 48 volts.

Capt. Mike
http://biankablog.blogspot.com

From: Carter Quillen <twowheelinguy@yahoo.com>
To: "electricboats@yahoogroups.com" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Fully electric, turn key boat - available yet?

 
Luka,
 
Cruise ships have had electric serial hybrid drive systems for years and I don't know that much about it but I'm guessing it must be a strong trend with newer large ships. As far as the cost competativeness, depending on the system you install and where you buy it, electric is already cheaper. The entire system for the Arc cost about $12K in parts including solar panels(I paid $7k for what you can now get for $5.5K), motor, controller,wire, relays,quickcharger($2250 total),  aluminum for the support structure and linear actuators, ($2500) , batteries($1000), Honda EU2000, ($1000).
 
Admittedly my 7kW golf cart motor on steriods is a bit underpowered for a 20 ton boat and a shunt motor is about the least efficient choice there is but it was hands down the most torque per dollar I could find for my money and it pushes the boat smartly in calm waters. It  was sized more to match the capacity of my solar array than to push the boat in heavy weather, for that I left the diesel in place so I'm cheating a little bit. But still,  you can hardly buy a 20hp diesel for what I've got in the system and mine  comes with the never ending gas tank option. Also, the hardware is not marine rated but the motor and controller seem to be constructed well for the environment. Most of it's made out of aluminum and I changed out some mild steel pieces with stainless. Time will tell but the golf cart stuff has a reputation for being pretty robust. For the DIY, electric propulsion is already cheaper than ICE right now.
 
I'd say electric propulsion has arrived and it's only going to get better in the future.
 
Carter
 
PS:And everything on the boat is made in America (except the Honda and the linear actuators).


From: luka_tema <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 3:12 AM
Subject: [Electric Boats] Re: Fully electric, turn key boat - available yet?

Hi Guys,
This is turning out to be quite a good argumented conversation!

I work in the electric propulsion industry and from what I see the interest for e-propulsion is growing every day, and so is the number of electric boats.

Here is one of the projects I worked on:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=g1MWv_QMEOc

The electric propulsion system is not that much more expensive that a regular marine inboard diesel engine, the price of the source (battery, genset, or both) increases the initial cost.

But consider this as an investment, because with batteries (or a serial hybrid) you are buying a much more efficient vehicle and your exploitation cost (fuel, maintenance) will be significantly lower than with a diesel powered boat.

It is true that the battery pack is slowing down the market to expand more quickly, mainly because of battery weight or price.

BR
Luka


--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "LizN" <enalle@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, all - first post but I have been lurking for years.  And, after reading all your posts, I have realized that I don't have anywhere's near the knowledge necessary to convert a boat.  I don't even know how to sail.  I have crewed on power boats though, so I know a little about them. My question is, is there such a thing as a fully electric, or a diesel hybrid that one can buy, all ready to go?  I drooled over this boat for quite a while - http://dsehybrid.com/ - but it looks like it is no longer offered, so either the market, or existing technology, or something wasn't ready yet. Is an electric power boat, with solar or shore power to recharge the batteries possible today? That one could spend some weeks on putting up and down the ICW, maybe even heading around the Caribbean.  Retirement is a few years off yet, but that's my dream.  I wouldn't need much power, although I would need enough to get out of the way, or get somewhere relatively safe in case of storms.
>
> Any thoughts and comments are appreciated - your collective knowledge is incredible, I salute you!
>
> Liz
>




------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electricboats/

<*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electricboats/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
    electricboats-digest@yahoogroups.com
    electricboats-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    electricboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/









__._,_.___
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (44)
.

__,_._,___
Posted by at No comments:

Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Fully electric, turn key boat - available yet?

 

Carter:

Enjoyed reading your blog and project. At times kicking back in the cockpit I've wondered what a deck full of solar panels might do on my boat. Thanks for leading the way with that idea.   I was wondering how you have configured all those solar panels. I'm assuming they are all 12 volts. At what voltage have you configured them at the input to the controller? I think you mentioned your motor/batteries were 48 volts.

Capt. Mike
http://biankablog.blogspot.com

From: Carter Quillen <twowheelinguy@yahoo.com>
To: "electricboats@yahoogroups.com" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Fully electric, turn key boat - available yet?

 
Luka,
 
Cruise ships have had electric serial hybrid drive systems for years and I don't know that much about it but I'm guessing it must be a strong trend with newer large ships. As far as the cost competativeness, depending on the system you install and where you buy it, electric is already cheaper. The entire system for the Arc cost about $12K in parts including solar panels(I paid $7k for what you can now get for $5.5K), motor, controller,wire, relays,quickcharger($2250 total),  aluminum for the support structure and linear actuators, ($2500) , batteries($1000), Honda EU2000, ($1000).
 
Admittedly my 7kW golf cart motor on steriods is a bit underpowered for a 20 ton boat and a shunt motor is about the least efficient choice there is but it was hands down the most torque per dollar I could find for my money and it pushes the boat smartly in calm waters. It  was sized more to match the capacity of my solar array than to push the boat in heavy weather, for that I left the diesel in place so I'm cheating a little bit. But still,  you can hardly buy a 20hp diesel for what I've got in the system and mine  comes with the never ending gas tank option. Also, the hardware is not marine rated but the motor and controller seem to be constructed well for the environment. Most of it's made out of aluminum and I changed out some mild steel pieces with stainless. Time will tell but the golf cart stuff has a reputation for being pretty robust. For the DIY, electric propulsion is already cheaper than ICE right now.
 
I'd say electric propulsion has arrived and it's only going to get better in the future.
 
Carter
 
PS:And everything on the boat is made in America (except the Honda and the linear actuators).


From: luka_tema <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 3:12 AM
Subject: [Electric Boats] Re: Fully electric, turn key boat - available yet?

Hi Guys,
This is turning out to be quite a good argumented conversation!

I work in the electric propulsion industry and from what I see the interest for e-propulsion is growing every day, and so is the number of electric boats.

Here is one of the projects I worked on:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=g1MWv_QMEOc

The electric propulsion system is not that much more expensive that a regular marine inboard diesel engine, the price of the source (battery, genset, or both) increases the initial cost.

But consider this as an investment, because with batteries (or a serial hybrid) you are buying a much more efficient vehicle and your exploitation cost (fuel, maintenance) will be significantly lower than with a diesel powered boat.

It is true that the battery pack is slowing down the market to expand more quickly, mainly because of battery weight or price.

BR
Luka


--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "LizN" <enalle@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, all - first post but I have been lurking for years.  And, after reading all your posts, I have realized that I don't have anywhere's near the knowledge necessary to convert a boat.  I don't even know how to sail.  I have crewed on power boats though, so I know a little about them. My question is, is there such a thing as a fully electric, or a diesel hybrid that one can buy, all ready to go?  I drooled over this boat for quite a while - http://dsehybrid.com/ - but it looks like it is no longer offered, so either the market, or existing technology, or something wasn't ready yet. Is an electric power boat, with solar or shore power to recharge the batteries possible today? That one could spend some weeks on putting up and down the ICW, maybe even heading around the Caribbean.  Retirement is a few years off yet, but that's my dream.  I wouldn't need much power, although I would need enough to get out of the way, or get somewhere relatively safe in case of storms.
>
> Any thoughts and comments are appreciated - your collective knowledge is incredible, I salute you!
>
> Liz
>




------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electricboats/

<*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electricboats/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
    electricboats-digest@yahoogroups.com
    electricboats-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    electricboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





__._,_.___
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (43)
Recent Activity:
.

__,_._,___
Posted by at No comments:
Subscribe to: Posts (Atom)