Tuesday, June 30, 2009

[Electric Boats] Re: new member and, of course, questions



I think a 750w motor would be ideal . 1KW maximum as larger is more expensive and would need a more expensive controller.

Chris S

--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "Roland Kruijer" <martine_roland@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Group,
>
> My name is Roland Kruijer and I'm from The Netherlands.
>
> I'm just entering the electric community as I bought an electric boat just a couple of weeks ago. http://www.electraboat.com/
>
> Maybe some of you know this boat or have one. I'm having a little problem with the speed of the boat. I allready changed the pulleys but as a result, the motor becomes hot, so I'm figuring that is not the way to do it. It now has a 300 Watt, 24 V electric motor which would be sufficient in a pond, but I live by a slow streaming river, there for the motor is too weak. Oh, and the batteries are 2 x 12 V 200 amp in series.
> Now, I'm searching for a replacement (bigger) motor to use. Also I read there's need for a controller?? and I'm also looking for a throttle of some kind, because the boat now only has on/off switch.
>
> I saw on the net that there are lots of electric scootermotors for sale, can these be used?
> What kind of motor should I use? The boat doesn't have to be a speedboat.
> Is it possible to use an ordinary electric motor, but instead of the 300w one with 600 or 900 watt?
> I'm a bit concerned about the power of the batteries going straight to the motor. The orriginal set-up got the motor handwarm, but since I changed the pulley, its becomming, well, hotter.
>
>
> As I said, I'm just entering this electric world and do not have experience in electronics. I'm more an automotive guy, so any advice would be great!
>
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Roland Kruijer
>

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Re: [Electric Boats] new member and, of course, questions



Roland,
heating = poor efficiency!
A good permanent magnet DC motor efficiency is about 90%. For instance
my motor:
http://www.perm-motor.de/site/de/produkte/gleichstrom_motoren.php?linkid=p&linkid2=4
Good and expensive!
Or this:
http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/ems_ev_parts_motors_etek-r.php
Good and some less expensive!
Good smaller power rating motors must exist, but I do not know about them!

This 4HP 24 motor:
Poor efficiency here too = 45amps @ no load (!).
RPM may be too high for you? Present RPM? Motor can be used at lower
RPM, but efficiency is worse, and power is smaller.

redu

Roland Kruijer wrote:
> Hi Reino,
>
>
>
> I was looking on the net I came upon this motor. http://cgi.ebay.com/4-HP-24V-DC-VEHICLE-ELECTRIC-MOTOR_W0QQitemZ310054102624QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4830aa2660&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1262&_trkparms=%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A30
>
>
>
> Now, as I told I'm not that a electrician, but would this be a good motor. I am considered about the amp's on load?? Forgive me if I am asking the wrong things, but thats my problem. What do I need and what should I look for as in motor.
>
>
>
> Ok, thanks again,
>
>
>
> Roland
>
>
>
> To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
> From: reino.urala@gmail.com
> Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 08:47:54 +0300
> Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] new member and, of course, questions
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Roland,
> Reino Urala from Finland
> Right now testing an el-boat with about similar battery capacity (4kWh).
> Some measured reference data:
> speed 4knots, range 50km, 350W
> speed 8knots, range 15km, 2200W
> speed 12knots, range 8km, 6000W
> But this is a trimaran with small "hull speed effect"!
> Note1: Increasing power means decreasing range dramatically.
> Note2: Your boat is strongly "hull speed limited", and increasing power
> would be much more fatal concerning speed and max. range!
> Note3: A low wave drag el-boat is peculiar: You may make hundreds of km
> by cruising really slowly. And you may make 15kn for short sprints.
>
> redu
>
> Roland Kruijer wrote:
>
>> Hello Group,
>>
>> My name is Roland Kruijer and I'm from The Netherlands.
>>
>> I'm just entering the electric community as I bought an electric boat just a couple of weeks ago. http://www.electraboat.com/
>>
>> Maybe some of you know this boat or have one. I'm having a little problem with the speed of the boat. I allready changed the pulleys but as a result, the motor becomes hot, so I'm figuring that is not the way to do it. It now has a 300 Watt, 24 V electric motor which would be sufficient in a pond, but I live by a slow streaming river, there for the motor is too weak. Oh, and the batteries are 2 x 12 V 200 amp in series.
>> Now, I'm searching for a replacement (bigger) motor to use. Also I read there's need for a controller?? and I'm also looking for a throttle of some kind, because the boat now only has on/off switch.
>>
>> I saw on the net that there are lots of electric scootermotors for sale, can these be used?
>> What kind of motor should I use? The boat doesn't have to be a speedboat.
>> Is it possible to use an ordinary electric motor, but instead of the 300w one with 600 or 900 watt?
>> I'm a bit concerned about the power of the batteries going straight to the motor. The orriginal set-up got the motor handwarm, but since I changed the pulley, its becomming, well, hotter.
>>
>>
>> As I said, I'm just entering this electric world and do not have experience in electronics. I'm more an automotive guy, so any advice would be great!
>>
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>> Roland Kruijer
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Haal meer uit je leven met Windows Live
> http://www.microsoft.com/netherlands/windowslive/Views/index.aspx
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

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RE: [Electric Boats] new member and, of course, questions




Hi Reino,

I was looking on the net I came upon this motor. http://cgi.ebay.com/4-HP-24V-DC-VEHICLE-ELECTRIC-MOTOR_W0QQitemZ310054102624QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4830aa2660&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1262&_trkparms=%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A30

Now, as I told I'm not that a electrician, but would this be a good motor. I am considered about the amp's on load?? Forgive me if I am asking the wrong things, but thats my problem. What do I need and what should I look for as in motor.

Ok, thanks again,

Roland


To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
From: reino.urala@gmail.com
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 08:47:54 +0300
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] new member and, of course, questions

Hi Roland,
Reino Urala from Finland
Right now testing an el-boat with about similar battery capacity (4kWh).
Some measured reference data:
speed 4knots, range 50km, 350W
speed 8knots, range 15km, 2200W
speed 12knots, range 8km, 6000W
But this is a trimaran with small "hull speed effect"!
Note1: Increasing power means decreasing range dramatically.
Note2: Your boat is strongly "hull speed limited", and increasing power
would be much more fatal concerning speed and max. range!
Note3: A low wave drag el-boat is peculiar: You may make hundreds of km
by cruising really slowly. And you may make 15kn for short sprints.

redu

Roland Kruijer wrote:
> Hello Group,
>
> My name is Roland Kruijer and I'm from The Netherlands.
>
> I'm just entering the electric community as I bought an electric boat just a couple of weeks ago. http://www.electraboat.com/
>
> Maybe some of you know this boat or have one. I'm having a little problem with the speed of the boat. I allready changed the pulleys but as a result, the motor becomes hot, so I'm figuring that is not the way to do it. It now has a 300 Watt, 24 V electric motor which would be sufficient in a pond, but I live by a slow streaming river, there for the motor is too weak. Oh, and the batteries are 2 x 12 V 200 amp in series.
> Now, I'm searching for a replacement (bigger) motor to use. Also I read there's need for a controller?? and I'm also looking for a throttle of some kind, because the boat now only has on/off switch.
>
> I saw on the net that there are lots of electric scootermotors for sale, can these be used?
> What kind of motor should I use? The boat doesn't have to be a speedboat.
> Is it possible to use an ordinary electric motor, but instead of the 300w one with 600 or 900 watt?
> I'm a bit concerned about the power of the batteries going straight to the motor. The orriginal set-up got the motor handwarm, but since I changed the pulley, its becomming, well, hotter.
>
>
> As I said, I'm just entering this electric world and do not have experience in electronics. I'm more an automotive guy, so any advice would be great!
>
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Roland Kruijer
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

__________________________________________________________
Haal meer uit je leven met Windows Live
http://www.microsoft.com/netherlands/windowslive/Views/index.aspx

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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RE: [Electric Boats] new member and, of course, questions

Helo Reino,

Thanks for your quick responce.

I am aware that increasing the speed would mean a lot less range. But that is not that big a problem for me. As I said I'm living at a river which has only two ways to go, upstream and downstream. I use the boat only as a recreational boat.
Problem is that when I go under bridges the river gets less wider and the stream gets tougher, hence the fact I have problem getting forward.

I'm figuring that going downstream will not cost that much power, so there I win some.

What do you mean by "hull speed limited"? I tried to calculate the hull speed: 4,54 x

–4.1m= 9,19 km per hour. But the boat is definitly not going that speed. Well maybe downstream, but I'm not sure.

I am more considered about the heat of the motor, and the speed I now get with the 300 w motor. It's more a thing that I want to have some power extra in case of circumstances, like getting under bridges. I really like the slow flowing of electric boating, so thats not it.

Is there some info on where to buy these kind of motors? I have discovered that in europe the electric propulsion of vehicles is tsill not that big, the motors I see are i n the usa or china...


Thanks in advance,
Roland Kruijer

To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
From: reino.urala@gmail.com
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 08:47:54 +0300
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] new member and, of course, questions

Hi Roland,
Reino Urala from Finland
Right now testing an el-boat with about similar battery capacity (4kWh).
Some measured reference data:
speed 4knots, range 50km, 350W
speed 8knots, range 15km, 2200W
speed 12knots, range 8km, 6000W
But this is a trimaran with small "hull speed effect"!
Note1: Increasing power means decreasing range dramatically.
Note2: Your boat is strongly "hull speed limited", and increasing power
would be much more fatal concerning speed and max. range!
Note3: A low wave drag el-boat is peculiar: You may make hundreds of km
by cruising really slowly. And you may make 15kn for short sprints.

redu

Roland Kruijer wrote:
> Hello Group,
>
> My name is Roland Kruijer and I'm from The Netherlands.
>
> I'm just entering the electric community as I bought an electric boat just a couple of weeks ago. http://www.electraboat.com/
>
> Maybe some of you know this boat or have one. I'm having a little problem with the speed of the boat. I allready changed the pulleys but as a result, the motor becomes hot, so I'm figuring that is not the way to do it. It now has a 300 Watt, 24 V electric motor which would be sufficient in a pond, but I live by a slow streaming river, there for the motor is too weak. Oh, and the batteries are 2 x 12 V 200 amp in series.
> Now, I'm searching for a replacement (bigger) motor to use. Also I read there's need for a controller?? and I'm also looking for a throttle of some kind, because the boat now only has on/off switch.
>
> I saw on the net that there are lots of electric scootermotors for sale, can these be used?
> What kind of motor should I use? The boat doesn't have to be a speedboat.
> Is it possible to use an ordinary electric motor, but instead of the 300w one with 600 or 900 watt?
> I'm a bit concerned about the power of the batteries going straight to the motor. The orriginal set-up got the motor handwarm, but since I changed the pulley, its becomming, well, hotter.
>
>
> As I said, I'm just entering this electric world and do not have experience in electronics. I'm more an automotive guy, so any advice would be great!
>
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Roland Kruijer
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Nieuws, entertainment en de laatste roddels. Je vind het op MSN.nl!
http://nl.msn.com/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Monday, June 29, 2009

Re: [Electric Boats] new member and, of course, questions



Hi Roland,
Reino Urala from Finland
Right now testing an el-boat with about similar battery capacity (4kWh).
Some measured reference data:
speed 4knots, range 50km, 350W
speed 8knots, range 15km, 2200W
speed 12knots, range 8km, 6000W
But this is a trimaran with small "hull speed effect"!
Note1: Increasing power means decreasing range dramatically.
Note2: Your boat is strongly "hull speed limited", and increasing power
would be much more fatal concerning speed and max. range!
Note3: A low wave drag el-boat is peculiar: You may make hundreds of km
by cruising really slowly. And you may make 15kn for short sprints.

redu

Roland Kruijer wrote:
> Hello Group,
>
> My name is Roland Kruijer and I'm from The Netherlands.
>
> I'm just entering the electric community as I bought an electric boat just a couple of weeks ago. http://www.electraboat.com/
>
> Maybe some of you know this boat or have one. I'm having a little problem with the speed of the boat. I allready changed the pulleys but as a result, the motor becomes hot, so I'm figuring that is not the way to do it. It now has a 300 Watt, 24 V electric motor which would be sufficient in a pond, but I live by a slow streaming river, there for the motor is too weak. Oh, and the batteries are 2 x 12 V 200 amp in series.
> Now, I'm searching for a replacement (bigger) motor to use. Also I read there's need for a controller?? and I'm also looking for a throttle of some kind, because the boat now only has on/off switch.
>
> I saw on the net that there are lots of electric scootermotors for sale, can these be used?
> What kind of motor should I use? The boat doesn't have to be a speedboat.
> Is it possible to use an ordinary electric motor, but instead of the 300w one with 600 or 900 watt?
> I'm a bit concerned about the power of the batteries going straight to the motor. The orriginal set-up got the motor handwarm, but since I changed the pulley, its becomming, well, hotter.
>
>
> As I said, I'm just entering this electric world and do not have experience in electronics. I'm more an automotive guy, so any advice would be great!
>
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Roland Kruijer
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

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[Electric Boats] new member and, of course, questions



Hello Group,

My name is Roland Kruijer and I'm from The Netherlands.

I'm just entering the electric community as I bought an electric boat just a couple of weeks ago. http://www.electraboat.com/

Maybe some of you know this boat or have one. I'm having a little problem with the speed of the boat. I allready changed the pulleys but as a result, the motor becomes hot, so I'm figuring that is not the way to do it. It now has a 300 Watt, 24 V electric motor which would be sufficient in a pond, but I live by a slow streaming river, there for the motor is too weak. Oh, and the batteries are 2 x 12 V 200 amp in series.
Now, I'm searching for a replacement (bigger) motor to use. Also I read there's need for a controller?? and I'm also looking for a throttle of some kind, because the boat now only has on/off switch.

I saw on the net that there are lots of electric scootermotors for sale, can these be used?
What kind of motor should I use? The boat doesn't have to be a speedboat.
Is it possible to use an ordinary electric motor, but instead of the 300w one with 600 or 900 watt?
I'm a bit concerned about the power of the batteries going straight to the motor. The orriginal set-up got the motor handwarm, but since I changed the pulley, its becomming, well, hotter.

As I said, I'm just entering this electric world and do not have experience in electronics. I'm more an automotive guy, so any advice would be great!

Thanks in advance,
Roland Kruijer

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Sunday, June 28, 2009

[Electric Boats] Re: Battery diagnostics



My new battery will be one of 3 in parallel. So in some sense I'm already doing this part of the operation. I also ordered a desulfator so we'll see how that does in bring the others to slightly better charge acceptance.

Thanks for the tips Mark. If I get any measureable data I'll report back.

-Keith

--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Stafford" <mstafford@...> wrote:
...The re-cabling process (#1) starts all the batteries off at the same voltage, since they were all paralleled together, making one large 12volt battery...

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