Friday, March 28, 2025

[electricboats] Sadly I abandon the project, I have a lot to sell...

Hello, unfortunately I have to abandon my project for now, I will probably do it again in the future but now I need to sell everything, I have many things, but among the main
 
16 LifePO4 Prismatic Cells + Box + BMS
 
Golden Motor BLDC 48v 10 KW Liquid Cooled + Controller + Joystick Throttle
 
If anyone is interested, they can contact me by email or Facebook, I have much more that I will publish in the next few days, greetings!
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Sunday, December 8, 2024

Re: [electricboats] Complex design issues

Check you math. All panels in series as in 6S for 16V/7A panels is 96/7, not 96/14.


On 2024-12-08 9:55 am, Dale Shomette via groups.io wrote:

So Jeff, you have two sets of three panels, each three panels in series and each three panels with their own controllers. You believe they are 16volt/7amp panels, correct? So in series, the maximum voltage from your three panels would be 48 volts and seven amps.
Together, the six panels (as individual sets of three) would theoretically pull out 96 volts and 14 amps. Are your Victron controllers charging your batteries individually? Why do you need two Victron 150/35's when one would handle both sets of three panels? Why not put each two of the six panels in series with each other, then put the six in parallel. Wouldn't that give you a maximum of 48 volts and an increase to up to 21amps to your battery bank? Of course, I have no idea how big your battery bank is and 48 volts might not do it for you. I will need a minimum of 54 volts for each of my four battery banks but will be charging them individually. I think your Victron 150/35 would be perfect to do that but was thinking that at full charge of a bank, I would just switch over from that bank to the other and only need the one controller. Is that reasoning sound from your perspective? By the way, what is your average collective sunlight day where you are? 
Thanks Again,
Dale

On Thu, Dec 5, 2024 at 10:32 PM jeffsschwartz via groups.io <jeffsschwartz=hotmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Dale,
It's been a few years since I picked them up but I believe they're 16V/7A.  I have 6 of them so I wire 3 in series and then the output from the 3 into the MPPT controller, then repeat for the second controller.  When I look at the output from the panels on the Victron app on my cell, I'm seeing around 54V go into the batteries per controller.  I've never seen the total current from both controllers go about 3A even on the sunniest of days.
 
On a mid summer, no cloud day, I'll get a total charge of around 2 KW between the two controllers.  That may partially be due to panel placement, my boat's on a 3 point mooring facing south so the angles are not optimal.
 
Regards,
Jeff.



Re: [electricboats] Complex design issues

So Jeff, you have two sets of three panels, each three panels in series and each three panels with their own controllers. You believe they are 16volt/7amp panels, correct? So in series, the maximum voltage from your three panels would be 48 volts and seven amps.
Together, the six panels (as individual sets of three) would theoretically pull out 96 volts and 14 amps. Are your Victron controllers charging your batteries individually? Why do you need two Victron 150/35's when one would handle both sets of three panels? Why not put each two of the six panels in series with each other, then put the six in parallel. Wouldn't that give you a maximum of 48 volts and an increase to up to 21amps to your battery bank? Of course, I have no idea how big your battery bank is and 48 volts might not do it for you. I will need a minimum of 54 volts for each of my four battery banks but will be charging them individually. I think your Victron 150/35 would be perfect to do that but was thinking that at full charge of a bank, I would just switch over from that bank to the other and only need the one controller. Is that reasoning sound from your perspective? By the way, what is your average collective sunlight day where you are? 
Thanks Again,
Dale

On Thu, Dec 5, 2024 at 10:32 PM jeffsschwartz via groups.io <jeffsschwartz=hotmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Dale,
It's been a few years since I picked them up but I believe they're 16V/7A.  I have 6 of them so I wire 3 in series and then the output from the 3 into the MPPT controller, then repeat for the second controller.  When I look at the output from the panels on the Victron app on my cell, I'm seeing around 54V go into the batteries per controller.  I've never seen the total current from both controllers go about 3A even on the sunniest of days.
 
On a mid summer, no cloud day, I'll get a total charge of around 2 KW between the two controllers.  That may partially be due to panel placement, my boat's on a 3 point mooring facing south so the angles are not optimal.
 
Regards,
Jeff.

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Thursday, December 5, 2024

Re: [electricboats] Complex design issues

Hi Dale,
It's been a few years since I picked them up but I believe they're 16V/7A.  I have 6 of them so I wire 3 in series and then the output from the 3 into the MPPT controller, then repeat for the second controller.  When I look at the output from the panels on the Victron app on my cell, I'm seeing around 54V go into the batteries per controller.  I've never seen the total current from both controllers go about 3A even on the sunniest of days.
 
On a mid summer, no cloud day, I'll get a total charge of around 2 KW between the two controllers.  That may partially be due to panel placement, my boat's on a 3 point mooring facing south so the angles are not optimal.
 
Regards,
Jeff.
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Re: [electricboats] Complex design issues

Jeff, what's the volt and amperage rating on your panels? Why use three controllers, one for each panel?

On Thu, Dec 5, 2024 at 3:15 PM Dale Shomette via groups.io <dashoway=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Thanks Jeff. I'm taking a look at Victron now.

On Mon, Dec 2, 2024 at 10:46 PM jeffsschwartz via groups.io <jeffsschwartz=hotmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
I'm using Victron MPT 150/35 charge controllers on each of my 3 panels that are in series and it has no issue evening out the voltage.  It has a rotary switch that lets you set the charge profile depending on the battery chemistry.  I don't think it converts excess voltage to current (probably just regulates it down to the correct level) but it has never damaged the batteries during charging.

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Re: [electricboats] Complex design issues

Thanks Jeff. I'm taking a look at Victron now.

On Mon, Dec 2, 2024 at 10:46 PM jeffsschwartz via groups.io <jeffsschwartz=hotmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
I'm using Victron MPT 150/35 charge controllers on each of my 3 panels that are in series and it has no issue evening out the voltage.  It has a rotary switch that lets you set the charge profile depending on the battery chemistry.  I don't think it converts excess voltage to current (probably just regulates it down to the correct level) but it has never damaged the batteries during charging.

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Wednesday, December 4, 2024

Re: [electricboats] Complex design issues

On solar cells in series vs parallel: If all things were equal, series strings would not be preferred, specifically because of the direct effect that shading a single cell in the string has to the output.  It's a huge price to pay---just a splat of seagull poop on one cell that drops its output to 40% will drop the entire string's maximum current output to 40% as I see it.

So, ideally, solar panels would parallel ALL of the cells to eliminate this huge penalty.  The reason panels are not made this way is because of the very low voltage (around 0.58v Voc) put out by a cell.  Boost converters just can't boost this low voltage up to 12v efficiently, so cells are put in series on panels.  And so some of the earliest panels put out maybe Voc~18v and today's panels, with 32-96 cells have Voc from 20v to around 60v.

Now, to reduce the shading penalty, solar panel manufacturers often (always?) include some number of Germanium bypass diodes such that that panel's output will drop in voltage but can still deliver an optimal high current.  It's been suggested to use panels with at least 3 such diodes.

But let's say you have panels on port and panels to the starboard.  It might make best sense to put the port panels in series, same with the starboard ones and then either parallel up the 2 strings and connect to the MPPT controller or send each string's output separately to a converter.

 

It helps to think about lithium battery configurations for EVs these days.  It used to be (when most EVs on the road were DIY---i.e. pre-2000) that no one recommending paralleling battery cells or batteries due to risks involved.  You'd see some folks paralleling up strings and others paralleling up 12v batteries, usually without incident.  Even with lithium based EV packs, we saw in 2010-11 cars being produced with 2 parallel strings of 96 cells.  And EACH of those cells in each string needed a cell voltage manager.  Tesla went a different direction.  They realized that if they massively paralleled the cells as much as possible, then they could avoid multiple series strings, multiple BMS, etc.  Sure, there's risk that a single or leaky shorted cell will cause major issues, but they took that risk.

Back to solar cells---paralleling cells does not bring any real risk.  Each cell itself is actually made up of a lot of silicon in parallel.  For a boat, with possibility of mast, humans and other objects obscuring part or all of several cells, it seems that the best solution would be massive parallelization of cells.  And yet, at some point you need that pack voltage and so ultimately cells need to be put in series.

 

-mt