Re: [electricboats] Complex design issues

Thanks Jeff. I have 8 100watt/12 volt panels and am considering parallel/series them to have 4 sets of two panels in parallel and then those four sets set together in series to give me 48 volts and up to 33amps to charge (separately, as used) two banks of 4 battery's (48 volts each bank),. In the mid-atlantic we can plan on 4-5 hours of direct sunlight in the summer.

On Mon, Dec 2, 2024, 11:51 AM jeffsschwartz via groups.io <jeffsschwartz=hotmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

I'm using 6 110 watt panels and 2 Victron charge controllers (3 panels wired in series on each) to charge my 3 48V Dakota Lithium batteries with no issues other than the amount of time required.  I think the bigger issue is where you're located.  I'm on Lake Ontario and I'm getting only around 10 - 15% efficiency even on the sunniest days in the summer due to cloud cover and our northern lattitude.

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Re: [electricboats] Complex design issues

I'm using 6 110 watt panels and 2 Victron charge controllers (3 panels wired in series on each) to charge my 3 48V Dakota Lithium batteries with no issues other than the amount of time required.  I think the bigger issue is where you're located.  I'm on Lake Ontario and I'm getting only around 10 - 15% efficiency even on the sunniest days in the summer due to cloud cover and our northern lattitude.

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Re: [electricboats] Complex design issues

Do solar panel charge controllers work well with lithium batterys?

On Mon, Dec 2, 2024, 1:55 AM Myles Twete via groups.io <matwete=comcast.net@groups.io> wrote:

Agree that lead acid is stone age…not sure if I agree about non-LiFePo lithium options---I've been powering my boat now for maybe 10 years with ex-THINK Enerdel lithium-ion batteries with absolutely no issues.

Last purchase of used batteries saw me offering $1200 for 24kwh of lithium --- i.d. about 5cents/watt-hour.

The batteries are probably good for 10 more years.

Compare that to new lead-acid: Won't last much more than 7 years and will cost about 15cents/watt-hour.

And lead-acid requires maintenance, doesn't like just sitting there floating for months and just never gives you confidence you'll have the capacity for that trip you're about to embark on….

 

 

From: electricboats@groups.io [mailto:electricboats@groups.io] On Behalf Of twowheelinguy via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2024 5:25 PM
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: Re: [electricboats] Complex design issues

 

LEAD IS DEAD! LiFePo is an acceptable chemistry for marine applications.  Stay away from anything with cobalt in it and you'll be fine. 

 

I ran lead acid for over 10 years, went through three 48V banks of GC-2 6 Volt golf cart batteries which are some of the most robust lead acid batteries you can get. Recently made the switch to LiFePo and there is no comparison. Lead acid is in the Stone Age compared to lithium and yo can get top quality lithium batteries on Amazon for cheaper than some AGMs now. 

 

Capt. Carter

www.shipofimagination.com 

 

On Friday, November 29, 2024 at 10:44:51 PM EST, Dale Shomette via groups.io <dashoway=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

 

 

Thanks Luke. I already have both generators and unfortunately bout the 100 watt PVs before I had researched it. I'm still concerned about lifepo battery's as lithium tends to blow up in a potential water environment and management is a bigger deal. I've been using Enersys Odyssey  1800 PC AGM batteries and after 10 years they're still putting out 12.6 to 12.8 volts. They're less expensive than lifepo4s and easier (as I'm an old guy) to maintain. Your right though, I wish I had invested in eight 300watt PVs. Unfortunately,
I also only have room for 8 motor batteries and the house batteries. I've forgotten the size and pitch of my prop....gotta check that. Thanks
Dale

 

On Fri, Nov 29, 2024, 8:03 PM Luke Johnson via groups.io <Jukelohnson=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Im no expert but I have a comparable  setup with a catalina 30 with a 48v lifepo4 battery bank.  I get about 30 amps at 4 knots, 60 amps at 5, 90 amps at 6.  Prop is 12" diameter 6" pitch.  Hope that info helps.

 

If it were me I'd get one generator and put the rest of the cash into higher output solar panels and one or more lifepo4 battery banks.  I don't know the size of your panels but 8 x 100 panels seems like low output for the footprint, isn't it?

 

8 400 watt panels would be nice, and make lots of power if you had a bank big enough to store it.

 

Just some thoughts -

 

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Re: [electricboats] When the ideal house voltage please stand up?

Most cruising boats in the US are wired with 120V AC for things like water heaters, air conditioners, refrigerators, and electrical outlets for all the stuff we bring from shore (blenders, table top ice makers, etc...).

We are typically ALSO wired with 12V DC for things like lights, radios, instrumentes, etc.

From your original post, it sounded like you were confusing the AC/DC separation. 

It's fine to run AC appliances off 120V AC.    It would be challenging to find a motor configuration for your boat that would work well with 120V AC - most electric boats work off DC.

By the same token, you generally cannot power typical 120V AC appliances directly from a string of DC batteries, even if the battery string adds up to 120V DC.

You CAN have one huge battery bank, and run inverters to get the 120VAC, while using the DC battery to power traction motors.  If you use a 48 or even 72V DC battery bank, you can use regulators for the 12V DC circuits (lights, instruments, pumps, etc.).    Though most people prefer to use separate battery banks for motor vs. house.

John

On Monday, December 2, 2024 at 09:17:05 AM CST, Newt via groups.io <mrkgillis=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Thank you for your replies. I understand the relationship between battery motor and generator. Getting back to my question. Why would it be harmful to wire the boat with 120 ac? What disadvantages over 12v dc? The traction motor and relationship with generator are a different issue.

Re: [electricboats] When the ideal house voltage please stand up?

Thank you for your replies. I understand the relationship between battery motor and generator. Getting back to my question. Why would it be harmful to wire the boat with 120 ac? What disadvantages over 12v dc? The traction motor and relationship with generator are a different issue.

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Re: [electricboats] Complex design issues

Agree that lead acid is stone age…not sure if I agree about non-LiFePo lithium options---I've been powering my boat now for maybe 10 years with ex-THINK Enerdel lithium-ion batteries with absolutely no issues.

Last purchase of used batteries saw me offering $1200 for 24kwh of lithium --- i.d. about 5cents/watt-hour.

The batteries are probably good for 10 more years.

Compare that to new lead-acid: Won't last much more than 7 years and will cost about 15cents/watt-hour.

And lead-acid requires maintenance, doesn't like just sitting there floating for months and just never gives you confidence you'll have the capacity for that trip you're about to embark on….

 

 

From: electricboats@groups.io [mailto:electricboats@groups.io] On Behalf Of twowheelinguy via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2024 5:25 PM
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: Re: [electricboats] Complex design issues

 

LEAD IS DEAD! LiFePo is an acceptable chemistry for marine applications.  Stay away from anything with cobalt in it and you'll be fine. 

 

I ran lead acid for over 10 years, went through three 48V banks of GC-2 6 Volt golf cart batteries which are some of the most robust lead acid batteries you can get. Recently made the switch to LiFePo and there is no comparison. Lead acid is in the Stone Age compared to lithium and yo can get top quality lithium batteries on Amazon for cheaper than some AGMs now. 

 

Capt. Carter

www.shipofimagination.com 

 

On Friday, November 29, 2024 at 10:44:51 PM EST, Dale Shomette via groups.io <dashoway=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

 

 

Thanks Luke. I already have both generators and unfortunately bout the 100 watt PVs before I had researched it. I'm still concerned about lifepo battery's as lithium tends to blow up in a potential water environment and management is a bigger deal. I've been using Enersys Odyssey  1800 PC AGM batteries and after 10 years they're still putting out 12.6 to 12.8 volts. They're less expensive than lifepo4s and easier (as I'm an old guy) to maintain. Your right though, I wish I had invested in eight 300watt PVs. Unfortunately,
I also only have room for 8 motor batteries and the house batteries. I've forgotten the size and pitch of my prop....gotta check that. Thanks
Dale

 

On Fri, Nov 29, 2024, 8:03 PM Luke Johnson via groups.io <Jukelohnson=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Im no expert but I have a comparable  setup with a catalina 30 with a 48v lifepo4 battery bank.  I get about 30 amps at 4 knots, 60 amps at 5, 90 amps at 6.  Prop is 12" diameter 6" pitch.  Hope that info helps.

 

If it were me I'd get one generator and put the rest of the cash into higher output solar panels and one or more lifepo4 battery banks.  I don't know the size of your panels but 8 x 100 panels seems like low output for the footprint, isn't it?

 

8 400 watt panels would be nice, and make lots of power if you had a bank big enough to store it.

 

Just some thoughts -

 

Re: [electricboats] Complex design issues

LEAD IS DEAD! LiFePo is an acceptable chemistry for marine applications.  Stay away from anything with cobalt in it and you'll be fine. 

I ran lead acid for over 10 years, went through three 48V banks of GC-2 6 Volt golf cart batteries which are some of the most robust lead acid batteries you can get. Recently made the switch to LiFePo and there is no comparison. Lead acid is in the Stone Age compared to lithium and yo can get top quality lithium batteries on Amazon for cheaper than some AGMs now. 

Capt. Carter

www.shipofimagination.com 

On Friday, November 29, 2024 at 10:44:51 PM EST, Dale Shomette via groups.io <dashoway=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Thanks Luke. I already have both generators and unfortunately bout the 100 watt PVs before I had researched it. I'm still concerned about lifepo battery's as lithium tends to blow up in a potential water environment and management is a bigger deal. I've been using Enersys Odyssey  1800 PC AGM batteries and after 10 years they're still putting out 12.6 to 12.8 volts. They're less expensive than lifepo4s and easier (as I'm an old guy) to maintain. Your right though, I wish I had invested in eight 300watt PVs. Unfortunately,
I also only have room for 8 motor batteries and the house batteries. I've forgotten the size and pitch of my prop....gotta check that. Thanks
Dale

On Fri, Nov 29, 2024, 8:03 PM Luke Johnson via groups.io <Jukelohnson=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Im no expert but I have a comparable  setup with a catalina 30 with a 48v lifepo4 battery bank.  I get about 30 amps at 4 knots, 60 amps at 5, 90 amps at 6.  Prop is 12" diameter 6" pitch.  Hope that info helps.

If it were me I'd get one generator and put the rest of the cash into higher output solar panels and one or more lifepo4 battery banks.  I don't know the size of your panels but 8 x 100 panels seems like low output for the footprint, isn't it?

8 400 watt panels would be nice, and make lots of power if you had a bank big enough to store it.

Just some thoughts -