Re: [electricboats] When the ideal house voltage please stand up?

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Simple system, fairly standard practice:

 

battery- Motor controller- motor

 

generator - battery charger (or inverter/charger if 120vac is needed) - battery 

 

solar panels -charge controller - battery

 

a separate 12v system can be as simple as a dc-dc converter that converts traction battery voltage to 12v, but could also be a 12v battery with solar and a dc-dc to charge it from the traction pack, and a charger to run off the generator or shore power. 

 

al three systems are basically stand-alone and can operate separately and simultaneously.

Voltage is decided upon based on power level but 12v means 4x higher amps than  a 48v system and will need larger wires controller etc. 

again, 120v battery will be dangerous in a marine environment. 72v is used, but notice the level of protection and quality of components in a 400v EV, it is difficult to achieve safety at that high voltage. 
note that even with a 48v battery and 120vac you have to follow wiring and connection and grounding rules to not have safety and reliability problems. 

 

anton

 

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Re: [electricboats] When the ideal house voltage please stand up?

Simple system, fairly standard practice:

 

battery- Motor controller- motor

 

generator - battery charger (or inverter/charger if 120vac is needed) - battery 

 

solar panels -charge controller - battery

 

a separate 12v system can be as simple as a dc-dc converter that charges traction battery voltage to 12v, but could also be a 12v battery with solar and a dc-dc to charge it from the traction pack, and a charger to run off the generator or shore power. 

 

al three systems are basically stand-alone and can operate separately and simultaneously.

Voltage is decided upon based on power level but 12v means 4x higher amps than  a 48v system and will need larger wires controller etc. 

again, 120v battery will be dangerous in a marine environment. 72v is used, but notice the level of protection and quality of components in a 400v EV, it is difficult to achieve safety at that high voltage. 
note that even with a 48v battery and 120v dc you have to follow wiring and connection and grounding rules to not have safety and reliability problems. 

 

anton

 

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Re: [electricboats] When the ideal house voltage please stand up?

I am now even more confused.  
what voltage is the battery? What capacity?

Describe the motor, brand, type, size. Is it an AC or dc motor? How will you control its speed?

describe the motor drive: controller brand type size. 
Describe the battery charger, brand, size

 

describe  operating modes: running on generator power only, battery only. Do you want it to be able to operate on both simultaneously?
It appears again in your second response that you may be under the impression that an AC generator wil directly charge a battery and that an AC motor that will run on a generator will run off a battery. There needs to be a controller or charger between an AC generator and a battery or a motor and battery. AC and dc do not talk to each other directly.  

also, I apologize for being blunt, but read up on proper use of the terms amp-hour, watt-hour, watts, amps. Your response leaves me with more questions than answers. 

anton

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Re: [electricboats] Complex design issues

Thanks Luke. I already have both generators and unfortunately bout the 100 watt PVs before I had researched it. I'm still concerned about lifepo battery's as lithium tends to blow up in a potential water environment and management is a bigger deal. I've been using Enersys Odyssey  1800 PC AGM batteries and after 10 years they're still putting out 12.6 to 12.8 volts. They're less expensive than lifepo4s and easier (as I'm an old guy) to maintain. Your right though, I wish I had invested in eight 300watt PVs. Unfortunately,
I also only have room for 8 motor batteries and the house batteries. I've forgotten the size and pitch of my prop....gotta check that. Thanks
Dale

On Fri, Nov 29, 2024, 8:03 PM Luke Johnson via groups.io <Jukelohnson=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Im no expert but I have a comparable  setup with a catalina 30 with a 48v lifepo4 battery bank.  I get about 30 amps at 4 knots, 60 amps at 5, 90 amps at 6.  Prop is 12" diameter 6" pitch.  Hope that info helps.

If it were me I'd get one generator and put the rest of the cash into higher output solar panels and one or more lifepo4 battery banks.  I don't know the size of your panels but 8 x 100 panels seems like low output for the footprint, isn't it?

8 400 watt panels would be nice, and make lots of power if you had a bank big enough to store it.

Just some thoughts -

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Re: [electricboats] Complex design issues

Im no expert but I have a comparable  setup with a catalina 30 with a 48v lifepo4 battery bank.  I get about 30 amps at 4 knots, 60 amps at 5, 90 amps at 6.  Prop is 12" diameter 6" pitch.  Hope that info helps.

If it were me I'd get one generator and put the rest of the cash into higher output solar panels and one or more lifepo4 battery banks.  I don't know the size of your panels but 8 x 100 panels seems like low output for the footprint, isn't it?

8 400 watt panels would be nice, and make lots of power if you had a bank big enough to store it.

Just some thoughts -

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Re: [electricboats] When the ideal house voltage please stand up?

There is no such thing as 120 volt AC house Bank. Batteries are only Direct Current. 

. 

You really don't want to use the wrong type of wiring or connectors, and you need proper fuses... 

I would recommend that you let a professional design and set up your system.

On Fri, Nov 29, 2024, 5:41 PM Newt via groups.io <mrkgillis=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

I see my original post caused some confusion. I think of going 120 AC for the entire house bank, except for the instruments that require 12 DC. I think I can acquire 120 marine grade, although I wire a bunch of my outbuildings with wire that is submerged for most of the time. I would used a smaller Beta generator (5KW) to keep the large battery bank for both propulsion and house bank, along with solar. I am thinking around 50 KW ah. The generator would be able to power the house bank and or the aux motor directly. Of course an inverter would take the battery bank to 110. Whatever voltage the motor requires, it would be able to take it directly from the batteries.

Generator---->AC/DC converter --------->propulsion

 shore power                                     battery-^----> inverter-----housepower

either  power-------------------------------------------^--------------------------------^

Its really quite a simple system, and the only thing I can see wrong with it is that the inverter would have to be on as long as you are using any of the house powered systems.

Newt

On Fri, Nov 29, 2024 at 7:21 AM Kev via groups.io <captainyoung=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Not sure what you are exactly thinking of, but if you are saying why not use a 120V AC motor for propulsion?

The reason would be efficiency. If you are converting from DC (Batteries) through an Inverter(90% Efficiency) to an AC Motor(75-90% Efficiency), that is not as efficient as Batteries directly to a Brushless DC Motor(92% Efficiency).

Also, on boats, you should not use residential wiring or connectors... you have to use marine grade everything.

Typically on a sailboat, you would have a big propulsion battery bank, and have a DC to DC converter, to go from your say 74 Volt propulsion battery bank to 12 volt house power. And most likely have a small 12 volt battery bank that is charged by the DC to DC converter and Solar. Then you would have an inverter for any 110 volt house loads, like a microwave, tv, computer...

 

On Thu, Nov 28, 2024 at 4:37 PM Newt via groups.io <mrkgillis=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hi all, 

I monitor this group a lot but rarely contribute. That's going to change. While powering over a current over a bar here in Oregon, my v drive ended with a loud bang followed by a grinding noise and no power to the prop. Well I will use this opportunity to go electric. In talking to the thunderstruck guys, they suggest 18 or even 24 kw (40 ft Valiant) . I thought why not just use their reduction drive and go with 120 for the house and the  aux?

Advantages...

More power to aux

Standardized wiring (cheaper)

Home appliances (cheap)

Solar to 120, gen to 120 easy to do. 

Dis

Marine stuff is mostly 12 volt. So will need step down for instruments, radar etc

What do you think...anybody done this? Why not?

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Re: [electricboats] When the ideal house voltage please stand up?

I see my original post caused some confusion. I think of going 120 AC for the entire house bank, except for the instruments that require 12 DC. I think I can acquire 120 marine grade, although I wire a bunch of my outbuildings with wire that is submerged for most of the time. I would used a smaller Beta generator (5KW) to keep the large battery bank for both propulsion and house bank, along with solar. I am thinking around 50 KW ah. The generator would be able to power the house bank and or the aux motor directly. Of course an inverter would take the battery bank to 110. Whatever voltage the motor requires, it would be able to take it directly from the batteries.

Generator---->AC/DC converter --------->propulsion

 shore power                                     battery-^----> inverter-----housepower

either  power-------------------------------------------^--------------------------------^

Its really quite a simple system, and the only thing I can see wrong with it is that the inverter would have to be on as long as you are using any of the house powered systems.

Newt

On Fri, Nov 29, 2024 at 7:21 AM Kev via groups.io <captainyoung=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Not sure what you are exactly thinking of, but if you are saying why not use a 120V AC motor for propulsion?

The reason would be efficiency. If you are converting from DC (Batteries) through an Inverter(90% Efficiency) to an AC Motor(75-90% Efficiency), that is not as efficient as Batteries directly to a Brushless DC Motor(92% Efficiency).

Also, on boats, you should not use residential wiring or connectors... you have to use marine grade everything.

Typically on a sailboat, you would have a big propulsion battery bank, and have a DC to DC converter, to go from your say 74 Volt propulsion battery bank to 12 volt house power. And most likely have a small 12 volt battery bank that is charged by the DC to DC converter and Solar. Then you would have an inverter for any 110 volt house loads, like a microwave, tv, computer...

 

On Thu, Nov 28, 2024 at 4:37 PM Newt via groups.io <mrkgillis=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hi all, 

I monitor this group a lot but rarely contribute. That's going to change. While powering over a current over a bar here in Oregon, my v drive ended with a loud bang followed by a grinding noise and no power to the prop. Well I will use this opportunity to go electric. In talking to the thunderstruck guys, they suggest 18 or even 24 kw (40 ft Valiant) . I thought why not just use their reduction drive and go with 120 for the house and the  aux?

Advantages...

More power to aux

Standardized wiring (cheaper)

Home appliances (cheap)

Solar to 120, gen to 120 easy to do. 

Dis

Marine stuff is mostly 12 volt. So will need step down for instruments, radar etc

What do you think...anybody done this? Why not?

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