T-Pain Is On A Boat

Friday, November 29, 2024

Re: [electricboats] Complex design issues

The two Fischer-Pandas are three cylinder diesels, EXTREMELY quiet at 60 decibels (conversation level noise), water cooled of course, and weigh a little over 100+ lbs. I don't have the exact weights with me (away for Thanksgiving). However, they ain't cheap! (Not than anything is these days). Oh, they are both in insulated quiet shells that measure close to 2'x2'x2'. Thanks,

Dale

On Fri, Nov 29, 2024, 12:23 PM john via groups.io <oak_box=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Ok, ball park... How much is one of these things? 200 pounds doesn't sound bad for a diesel gen.

On Friday, November 29, 2024 at 10:52:46 AM CST, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@pfeiffer.net> wrote:

Is this a Buccaneer 32?

Have you confirmed is actual service the 60 amps at 3.5 to 4 knots? If you get the reduction and prop sizing right you might do better than that. I have a similar sized boat (33ft, 12,500 lbs, 28.33 LWL) and at 4 knots I use about 30 amps.

7 to 7.5 kts may not be reachable though. Not in a practical way. But I do get to 85% hull speed (apr. 6 kts ) at 100 amps.

I was planning for a 12kW generator (using same ME1616 motor as generator) but after running for several seasons I think that's overkill. 6 to 8 kW would do what I need.

I would look at a DC generator. I saw these guys at Annapolis Baot Show. Very interesting and maybe ahead of the curve in offerings?
https://polarpower.com/marine-dc-generators/#tab-id-2

Details on my installation here (with data):
http://dan.pfeiffer.net/10m/electric_drive.htm

Dan Pfeiffer

On 2024-11-29 11:12 am, Dale Shomette via groups.io wrote:

I have a 32' Bayliner sailboat (now dismasted) that I've gutted and am turning it into an electric hybrid. It has an 8 battery (185 a/h 12 volt each) battery bank of AGM Oddysey batteries to power a (to be purchased) ElectricYacht 2.0, 48 volt motor drive system. I have 8 solar panels, 100watts each to augment the two Fischer Panda 48 volt 10kw diesel gen. sets. I've taken the 13' mainmast spar and am stepping it where the main master was, with a 500watt wind generator mounted on top. To flesh it out a bit more, I've installed a separate 4 battery bank forward as the house batteries, with a 200watt PV on the forward cabin top to keep them topped up.
Having said all that, I'd like to configure the 800 watt set of PVs to meet the 48 (actually need 54-6) volt requirement to charge the 8 battery bank but also maximize amperage. 10-11amps/hrs isn't much to plug into a 370amp bank.

The ElectricYacht will need roughly 60 amp/hr for a 3.5-4knot speed, up to 270 amps/hrs to reach a 7- 7.5 knot hll speed. The gen sets can run the motors by themselves and/or charge the batteries but I would like to get as much quiet time propulsion as possible. The gen. sets only put out 60 decibels of noise but would like to keep their use to a minimum. How would you do the overall PV / wind turbine configuration, and voltage and amperage to the battery bank? Should I utilize one 4 185amp 48 volt bank at a time or use and charge both at the same time? Other insight would be appreciated. Thanks so much.

Dale

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Re: [electricboats] Complex design issues

Thanks Dan. I don't have the figures with me right now and you may be right about the 30 amps @ 4 knots as well as the practicality of hull speed. The Fischer-Pandas ARE Direct Current / 48 volt, 10kw gen sets. Generally, all I need is one gen to give up to a max of about 200 amps@48 volts. The ElectricYacht 2.0 system is two motors in tandem. Like the two gen sets, It's redundant power and energy and cruising on one generator is easy but if you're in a storm, heavy sea or serious currant, #2 gen with #1coming on will kick in the second motor, and hopefully, get you outta there. The problem, is I don't want to be a total slave to the generators. I'd like to be as efficient as possible, by charging the bat.bank(s) with enough volts and enough amps to travel 4 or 5 hours on batteries alone. Getting that configuration as efficient as possible is what I need help with. I can't put on any more than the 8 100watt PVs (it's what I have) and the one 200 watt for maintaining the house batteries. I haven't installed the inverter yet and charging by shore power is still to be worked out. Anyway, thank you for your input!

Dale

On Fri, Nov 29, 2024, 12:23 PM john via groups.io <oak_box=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Ok, ball park... How much is one of these things? 200 pounds doesn't sound bad for a diesel gen.

On Friday, November 29, 2024 at 10:52:46 AM CST, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@pfeiffer.net> wrote:

Is this a Buccaneer 32?

Have you confirmed is actual service the 60 amps at 3.5 to 4 knots? If you get the reduction and prop sizing right you might do better than that. I have a similar sized boat (33ft, 12,500 lbs, 28.33 LWL) and at 4 knots I use about 30 amps.

7 to 7.5 kts may not be reachable though. Not in a practical way. But I do get to 85% hull speed (apr. 6 kts ) at 100 amps.

I was planning for a 12kW generator (using same ME1616 motor as generator) but after running for several seasons I think that's overkill. 6 to 8 kW would do what I need.

I would look at a DC generator. I saw these guys at Annapolis Baot Show. Very interesting and maybe ahead of the curve in offerings?
https://polarpower.com/marine-dc-generators/#tab-id-2

Details on my installation here (with data):
http://dan.pfeiffer.net/10m/electric_drive.htm

Dan Pfeiffer

On 2024-11-29 11:12 am, Dale Shomette via groups.io wrote:

I have a 32' Bayliner sailboat (now dismasted) that I've gutted and am turning it into an electric hybrid. It has an 8 battery (185 a/h 12 volt each) battery bank of AGM Oddysey batteries to power a (to be purchased) ElectricYacht 2.0, 48 volt motor drive system. I have 8 solar panels, 100watts each to augment the two Fischer Panda 48 volt 10kw diesel gen. sets. I've taken the 13' mainmast spar and am stepping it where the main master was, with a 500watt wind generator mounted on top. To flesh it out a bit more, I've installed a separate 4 battery bank forward as the house batteries, with a 200watt PV on the forward cabin top to keep them topped up.
Having said all that, I'd like to configure the 800 watt set of PVs to meet the 48 (actually need 54-6) volt requirement to charge the 8 battery bank but also maximize amperage. 10-11amps/hrs isn't much to plug into a 370amp bank.

The ElectricYacht will need roughly 60 amp/hr for a 3.5-4knot speed, up to 270 amps/hrs to reach a 7- 7.5 knot hll speed. The gen sets can run the motors by themselves and/or charge the batteries but I would like to get as much quiet time propulsion as possible. The gen. sets only put out 60 decibels of noise but would like to keep their use to a minimum. How would you do the overall PV / wind turbine configuration, and voltage and amperage to the battery bank? Should I utilize one 4 185amp 48 volt bank at a time or use and charge both at the same time? Other insight would be appreciated. Thanks so much.

Dale

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Re: [electricboats] When the ideal house voltage please stand up?

If I am reading you right, apologies if I am getting your point wrong, you are proposing using 120v DC from the batteries to run standard AC appliances as well as the drive motor. This can’t be done, DC and AC systems must be separate. Also, 120vdc system voltage is doable, but much less standard than 48v which is a common voltage in larger solar systems.
Further, it is generally accepted that 48v is the highest relatively safe voltage, above that you have to be much more rigorous about your wiring and moisture protection. The difficulties of higher voltages are not insurmountable but if you want a system that is safe and insurable, you’d be better off going with 48v as it is safer and more standard than 120v.
120vdc as from a battery will not run most standard AC appliances, you’d have to use an inverter to make AC from the DC and that would run the AC house loads. The wiring for AC and DC follows different standards, for a 120vdc system every plug and connection would have to be esoteric and coded to disallow connection to any normal appliance. This negates any convenience gained by having the AC system and DC system the same voltage.

Generators (normal ones at least) only make AC which would have to be converted and controlled to charge batteries or run a motor.
AC motors can be speed controlled, but the electricity needs to be converted from AC to DC and back again, losing efficiency and adding complication.
24kw is a lot, that’s 480 amps at 50v, you’d need big wires, but you could go with 72v, which is a common system voltage in dc drives if you really need that much power. That would take the amps down to 330, which is still big but not too bad.
Consult with the thunderstruck people, they’ll get you sorted out.

That would be a great boat to go electric with, you’ll have plenty of room for batteries and solar!

anton

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Re: [electricboats] Complex design issues

Ok, ball park... How much is one of these things? 200 pounds doesn't sound bad for a diesel gen.

On Friday, November 29, 2024 at 10:52:46 AM CST, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@pfeiffer.net> wrote:

Is this a Buccaneer 32?

Have you confirmed is actual service the 60 amps at 3.5 to 4 knots? If you get the reduction and prop sizing right you might do better than that. I have a similar sized boat (33ft, 12,500 lbs, 28.33 LWL) and at 4 knots I use about 30 amps.

7 to 7.5 kts may not be reachable though. Not in a practical way. But I do get to 85% hull speed (apr. 6 kts ) at 100 amps.

I was planning for a 12kW generator (using same ME1616 motor as generator) but after running for several seasons I think that's overkill. 6 to 8 kW would do what I need.

I would look at a DC generator. I saw these guys at Annapolis Baot Show. Very interesting and maybe ahead of the curve in offerings?
https://polarpower.com/marine-dc-generators/#tab-id-2

Details on my installation here (with data):
http://dan.pfeiffer.net/10m/electric_drive.htm

Dan Pfeiffer

On 2024-11-29 11:12 am, Dale Shomette via groups.io wrote:

I have a 32' Bayliner sailboat (now dismasted) that I've gutted and am turning it into an electric hybrid. It has an 8 battery (185 a/h 12 volt each) battery bank of AGM Oddysey batteries to power a (to be purchased) ElectricYacht 2.0, 48 volt motor drive system. I have 8 solar panels, 100watts each to augment the two Fischer Panda 48 volt 10kw diesel gen. sets. I've taken the 13' mainmast spar and am stepping it where the main master was, with a 500watt wind generator mounted on top. To flesh it out a bit more, I've installed a separate 4 battery bank forward as the house batteries, with a 200watt PV on the forward cabin top to keep them topped up.
Having said all that, I'd like to configure the 800 watt set of PVs to meet the 48 (actually need 54-6) volt requirement to charge the 8 battery bank but also maximize amperage. 10-11amps/hrs isn't much to plug into a 370amp bank.

The ElectricYacht will need roughly 60 amp/hr for a 3.5-4knot speed, up to 270 amps/hrs to reach a 7- 7.5 knot hll speed. The gen sets can run the motors by themselves and/or charge the batteries but I would like to get as much quiet time propulsion as possible. The gen. sets only put out 60 decibels of noise but would like to keep their use to a minimum. How would you do the overall PV / wind turbine configuration, and voltage and amperage to the battery bank? Should I utilize one 4 185amp 48 volt bank at a time or use and charge both at the same time? Other insight would be appreciated. Thanks so much.

Dale

Re: [electricboats] Complex design issues

On 2024-11-29 11:12 am, Dale Shomette via groups.io wrote:

I have a 32' Bayliner sailboat (now dismasted) that I've gutted and am turning it into an electric hybrid. It has an 8 battery (185 a/h 12 volt each) battery bank of AGM Oddysey batteries to power a (to be purchased) ElectricYacht 2.0, 48 volt motor drive system. I have 8 solar panels, 100watts each to augment the two Fischer Panda 48 volt 10kw diesel gen. sets. I've taken the 13' mainmast spar and am stepping it where the main master was, with a 500watt wind generator mounted on top. To flesh it out a bit more, I've installed a separate 4 battery bank forward as the house batteries, with a 200watt PV on the forward cabin top to keep them topped up.
Having said all that, I'd like to configure the 800 watt set of PVs to meet the 48 (actually need 54-6) volt requirement to charge the 8 battery bank but also maximize amperage. 10-11amps/hrs isn't much to plug into a 370amp bank.

The ElectricYacht will need roughly 60 amp/hr for a 3.5-4knot speed, up to 270 amps/hrs to reach a 7- 7.5 knot hll speed. The gen sets can run the motors by themselves and/or charge the batteries but I would like to get as much quiet time propulsion as possible. The gen. sets only put out 60 decibels of noise but would like to keep their use to a minimum. How would you do the overall PV / wind turbine configuration, and voltage and amperage to the battery bank? Should I utilize one 4 185amp 48 volt bank at a time or use and charge both at the same time? Other insight would be appreciated. Thanks so much.

Dale

[electricboats] Complex design issues

I have a 32' Bayliner sailboat (now dismasted) that I've gutted and am turning it into an electric hybrid. It has an 8 battery (185 a/h 12 volt each) battery bank of AGM Oddysey batteries to power a (to be purchased) ElectricYacht 2.0, 48 volt motor drive system. I have 8 solar panels, 100watts each to augment the two Fischer Panda 48 volt 10kw diesel gen. sets. I've taken the 13' mainmast spar and am stepping it where the main master was, with a 500watt wind generator mounted on top. To flesh it out a bit more, I've installed a separate 4 battery bank forward as the house batteries, with a 200watt PV on the forward cabin top to keep them topped up.

Having said all that, I'd like to configure the 800 watt set of PVs to meet the 48 (actually need 54-6) volt requirement to charge the 8 battery bank but also maximize amperage. 10-11amps/hrs isn't much to plug into a 370amp bank.

The ElectricYacht will need roughly 60 amp/hr for a 3.5-4knot speed, up to 270 amps/hrs to reach a 7- 7.5 knot hll speed. The gen sets can run the motors by themselves and/or charge the batteries but I would like to get as much quiet time propulsion as possible. The gen. sets only put out 60 decibels of noise but would like to keep their use to a minimum. How would you do the overall PV / wind turbine configuration, and voltage and amperage to the battery bank? Should I utilize one 4 185amp 48 volt bank at a time or use and charge both at the same time? Other insight would be appreciated. Thanks so much.

Dale

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Re: [electricboats] When the ideal house voltage please stand up?

Not sure what you are exactly thinking of, but if you are saying why not use a 120V AC motor for propulsion?

The reason would be efficiency. If you are converting from DC (Batteries) through an Inverter(90% Efficiency) to an AC Motor(75-90% Efficiency), that is not as efficient as Batteries directly to a Brushless DC Motor(92% Efficiency).

Also, on boats, you should not use residential wiring or connectors... you have to use marine grade everything.

Typically on a sailboat, you would have a big propulsion battery bank, and have a DC to DC converter, to go from your say 74 Volt propulsion battery bank to 12 volt house power. And most likely have a small 12 volt battery bank that is charged by the DC to DC converter and Solar. Then you would have an inverter for any 110 volt house loads, like a microwave, tv, computer...

On Thu, Nov 28, 2024 at 4:37 PM Newt via groups.io <mrkgillis=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hi all,
I monitor this group a lot but rarely contribute. That's going to change. While powering over a current over a bar here in Oregon, my v drive ended with a loud bang followed by a grinding noise and no power to the prop. Well I will use this opportunity to go electric. In talking to the thunderstruck guys, they suggest 18 or even 24 kw (40 ft Valiant) . I thought why not just use their reduction drive and go with 120 for the house and the aux?
Advantages...
More power to aux
Standardized wiring (cheaper)
Home appliances (cheap)
Solar to 120, gen to 120 easy to do.
Dis
Marine stuff is mostly 12 volt. So will need step down for instruments, radar etc
What do you think...anybody done this? Why not?

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T-Pain Is On A Boat

Friday, November 29, 2024

Re: [electricboats] Complex design issues

Re: [electricboats] Complex design issues

Re: [electricboats] When the ideal house voltage please stand up?

Re: [electricboats] Complex design issues

Re: [electricboats] Complex design issues

[electricboats] Complex design issues

Re: [electricboats] When the ideal house voltage please stand up?

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