James,
I may be wrong on this, but I would be reluctant to install a hybrid installation with the intention of the diesel part being rarely used.
In my experience - Engines really want to be used on a regular basis, and absolutely NOT left until you need them. The "occasional" boater that invites 10 friends to go out with him when he hasn't visited the dock in the last 3 months is typically in for disappointment.
Would you disagree?
Doesn't it defeat the purpose of the hybrid if you feel compelled to start the silly motor and run it on a weekly basis, just to keep it running and reliable?
While I still lurk on this list, my current boat is not electric at all... <sigh>. My current boat is a 40' cabin cruiser with twin (huge) gas engines and a significantly sized generator.
I have the same problem with the generator - and did on my last boat as well.
Generally - the primary thing we would use the generator for is the Air Conditioner. And we GENERALLY only run the AC when we're at the dock. So, I could most likely get away with a good sized Inverter instead of a generator for 90% of the time or more.
Unfortunately, I feel compelled to start and run the generator several times a month just to keep it running. When I'd REALLY rather pull the damn thing out, seal at least 2 holes in the boat, get rid of a LOT of weight, and add a good sized inverter. Maybe add a spare high capacity alternator on one of the motors...
But, since the boat HAS a generator, and since the market would judge me negatively if it wasn't there should I go to sell the boat... I keep the generator. And I try to keep it running, which means running it frequently, oil changes, tuneups, etc...
Sigh.
But I do like the gas engines for the boat. (As long as they keep running!)
There was someone that posted a BEAUTIFUL review of an old cabin cruiser that he converted from twin engines to twin electrics. (I've lost the link... sadly) -
For my purposes, I can't begin to afford what it would cost to provide the battery capacity of what I would want. And I really like being able to go 10mph typically, and 30mph if I really need to (for a big cabin cruiser, you really have to stop and think about your wallet before you push the boat to 20mph... But at least it's an option).
If I ever have to re-power my boat, I would seriously consider doing it with electric. At least for a little bit... But only if I could afford a MASSIVE battery bank.
John
On Thursday, December 14, 2017, 3:48:29 PM CST, James Lambden james@electroprop.com [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
As a sailboat travels the ocean, she is constantly encountering energy from a variety of sources. Of course the wind is primary. Of the natural sources I would say that solar would be secondary. After that we have wave action and tidal. Wave action could be harnessed with a pendulum, whereas tidal can be harnessed through anchor gear.
As technology increases and solar paint, solar windows and perhaps wave energy collectors become available, it will be more realistic to assume that diesel may not be necessary. However that is a ways off from now.
My own boat has a 450 watt top of pole mount solar array, and for my cruising I have never needed any other source of energy. However I am a SAILOR and if it take me longer to get there because i need to conserve energy, thats ok because i have learned patience over the years.
But it still is not realistic for everyone, and it does limit what I can do, and when I can do it, as compared to having a diesel on board.
My own take on it, for everyone that can afford it, and whoever wants the ultimate sailing machine is hybrid. And not just diesel-electric hybrid, but diesel, regen, solar, wind hybrid.
Hybrids may cost two or three times as much as a diesel or electric only just because there are more components and everything should be integrated for long battery life.
My bet is though it will only be 1 to 5 % of the time that the average hybrid owner would have to start a diesel and for many people this range issue will be most likely not ever an issue, because the majority of sailboats are day sailors, the majority of the time.
The big advantage of a hybrid is not being backwinded by diesel when going in and out of your slip. You get to choose when to recharge the batteries and in close quarters, or no wind conditions you can leave the diesel off while motoring silently with electrics.
I personally do not like the smell of diesel on board a boat. And the exhaust makes people seasick and can ruin a sailing trip for many people. Perhaps it is the reason why sailing is primarily a male oriented sport because women are smart enough to stay away from diesel pollution, but thats another story.
There comes an argument to have a plug in or solar electric boat for the 95% of the time that you go daysailing, and for the cost of it, if you go into diesel-range territory, you could rent a diesel boat.
But some of us are stubborn and want the ultimate cruising, sailing and survival machine and the only way you are going to get that is with a fully integrated hybrid propulsion system.
James
James Lambden
The Electric Propeller Company
625C East Haley Street,
Santa Barbara, CA
93103
805 455 8444
james@electroprop.com
www.electroprop.com
The Electric Propeller Company
625C East Haley Street,
Santa Barbara, CA
93103
805 455 8444
james@electroprop.com
www.electroprop.com
On Dec 14, 2017, at 10:51 AM, mstafford@natca.net [electricboats] wrote:
King_of_NewOrleans makes great!!! points:
1. If you need long (motoring) range, you need diesel.2. On a monohull sailboat... can't hang enough solar panels3. Regen negligible unless sailing in double digits.4. E-boats are generally driven at about half of hull speed, or less.
5. Electric drive really shines for boats that are SAILED6. easier docking, maneuvering, power tacking, reverse7. cheaper to repower if you have time, skills, educationI'll add:8. will dramatically improve your sailing skills9. VERY low maintenance costs in time and money10. will enrich your relationship with the planet, which becomes a dear friend that you get to hang out with all the time. I know... pretty woo-woo, but the holistic beneficial effects of non-destructive planetary e-play, of making a friend out of anenome, is worth all the effort.
"I love electric, but it isn't for everyone." (King_of_NewOrleans)Mark Stafford, e-player
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