Saturday, November 4, 2017

Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Battery monitor idea

 

Ah, I see. Measuring at the midpoint of the series string makes the difference. I somehow read past that. Thanks for clearing that up.

-Tom

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Posted by: boat_works@yahoo.com
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Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Battery monitor idea

 

Hi John,

We chose Pure Lead batteries for all of our systems simply because when you look at all the batteries available, they are the safest.

We chose Northstar Batteries because they are the most forgiving to leaving in a partial state of discharge, they are the most efficient of all the Lead Acid Batteries we have looked at, and Northstar is committed to refinining their technology to be the best.

However, even Northstar batteries require balancing.    Most issues arise from the batteries from the suppliers coming from different batches which could be months if not years apart.   Plus if you don't have a method to balancing a battery pack then one bad battery requires replacing the whole pack.

The cost of ownership of an electric or hybrid vessel is directly related to the cost of the batteries and how often they must be replaced.   Most batteries are replaced every 4 to 5 years.     My first battery balancer installed on my boat, Kapowai, enabled Deka batteries to last over ten years, which resulted in half the cost of ownership of the batteries. 

Considering the replacement cost, including installation time, whether you do it yourself or have it done professionally, is about $4,000 or so, that translates into cost of ownership being around $1,000 per year for the batteries for the average installation.    Double the life expectancy of the battery, and that cost of ownership of batteries drops in half to perhaps $500 per year but best of all defers battery replacement for a decade or more.   

Not only does a balancing system extend the life of the batteries, it also limits the decline of amp hour capacity.

As you can imagine, if you follow the charge requirements of a battery then you will get maximum battery life.   If you install batteries in series, every time the battery is charged and discharged it will go out of balance and the amount it will go out of balance is incremental.    There are some lucky cases.   I installed 12 x  2 Volt, 1200 amp hour Lifeline batteries (24 volt) on my brothers boat 7 years ago and they are still perfectly in balance with no balancer.   These batteries were custom built and did come from the same batch so it is possible that good batteries can last a long time, but my experience looking at other installations sees that this is not the norm.   Most batteries go out of balance early in their life when installed in series.    Once they are out of balance they no longer follow the charge requirements of the manufacturer.    Weak batteries will be over charged and strong batteries will be undercharged and the whole stack starts to age early.     Basically, unless you are very lucky, any batteries installed in series without a balancer will start the self destruct process on the first charge cycle.    

But there are no commercially available battery balancers on the market today that accomplish everything a balancer / monitor requires.   So we built our own…


In 2018 Electroprop will start selling a battery balancer, monitor and charging system that will be the most advanced system of its kind…. well unless someone else comes up with something better in the meantime or I have missed it in my research of available products.

Here are a few of the highlights:   


1)   Monitor every battery for temperature and voltage.   Loads, charging sources and diversion load logic is based on individual battery condition.    If any one battery goes over 14.7 volts, then balancing begins, then diversion loads are enabled, then charging sources start shutting down until the voltage comes back within acceptable limits.  
2)   Display temp and voltage on display on monitor plus over Bluetooth and Wifi ( for redundancy and so we can communicate our info over Wifi, to allow bluetooth to communicate other info to tablet or phone)
3)  Android functionality with Apple coming soon
4)   Sequential load management based on priority
5)   Diversion Load Management
6)   Charge Source Management
7)  Up to 16 channels of Load, Diversion and Charge Management
8)   20 amps of balancing or get home mode with either AC or DC charging sources    This enables the use of a high power DC generator.    Balancing currents need to be a percentage of overall charging currents to protect batteries from over voltage conditions.    
9)   Control of Circuits from phone or tablet…. turn fridge on a couple of hours before getting to your boat, or lights on from the dock so you can read the combination lock
10)  up to 65 amps of charging a 48 volt battery plus up to 75 amps of charging a 12 volt house battery….. that is a total of over 4.5 KW.   This high power output enables the use of AC generators to make an AC hybrid.    
11)  very high efficiency
12)   installed in a waterproof enclosure with aluminum heat sink
13)  text alerts like if the bilge pump was activated etc.
14)  fully customizable to the needs of your boat and your lifestyle.    


The current build will include

AC and DC distribution, all charger modules, and DC converters in a box that measures 19 x 19 x 12 inches.    If that is two big for someones boat, it can be custom build into a variety of smaller boxes.



James Lambden
The Electric Propeller Company
625C East Haley Street,
Santa Barbara, CA
93103

805 455 8444

james@electroprop.com

www.electroprop.com

On Nov 4, 2017, at 12:16 AM, 66b6dcd5b59507e7d751ea81382ea1f6 wrote:

 


Hi Mark,

Re battery monitor, this might interest you running on Raspberry Pi:

https://www.victronenergy.com/blog/2017/09/06/raspberry-pi-running-victrons-venus-firmware/

A bit about the guy that ported it:

https://www.victronenergy.com/blog/2017/09/06/raspberry-pi-running-victrons-venus-firmware/

It's open source and the firmware is called Venus which I run on Victron's Color Control GX on my Lithium powered electric yacht,
( https://www.facebook.com/ElektraYachts/ )
hooked up via a 4G router to their free VRM (Victron Remote Management) portal. I can then monitor locally on the boat via the LAN or over the net. Can switch chargers on/off too. Here's a basic guest link to my VRM site:

https://vrm.victronenergy.com/installation/5209/share/584fe721

Another open source project is:

https://openenergymonitor.org/

John

Sent from my iPhone

http://John.Rushworth.com


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Posted by: James Lambden <james@electroprop.com>
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[Electric Boats] Battery Banks

 

I have a 24 volt system with six solar panels and 6 AGM batteries. Would it be better to run batteries in parallel or divide into three banks with some sort of switch?

Tony

Sent from my iPhone

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Posted by: Antonio Pernas <tpernas@bellsouth.net>
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Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Battery monitor idea

 

If I am not mistaken the idea is to leave all the elements of the bus connected in the circuit and sense a midpoint in all series branches. For example if a cell in the lower part of a given branch has shorted, the midpoint will sag about 10% to about 4/10 of the bus voltage instead of half (ie 5/10) of the bus voltage. Once the branch with a defective cell is determined automatically by periodic polling of voltages on the points marked with X  with respect to ground and an alarm is activated, the operator could cut out the defective branch quickly before cells get overcharged and find the defective cell by measuring each cell in the branch manually and maybe repair the defective cell if possible. Very clever and practical idea.
Maybe a pair of 100k resistors in series with a 22k in the middle sets about +/- 5% window for the center point of the bus and each measurement of the points marked with X is compared to this window? Maybe connect a heavy load on one cell and measure the midpoint voltage to test the system and/or determine  the optimum window. Too narrow a window is likely to results in false alarms and too wide a window will miss a failure. I would appreciate if Mark shared his findings after the project is finished. 
Cheers
Ahmet

    GND  |--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|   +12V NOM
               |               X                |
               |--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|  
               |               X                |
               |--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|  
               |               X                |
               |--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|  
               |               X                |
               |--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|  
               |               X                |
               |--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|  
               |               X                |
               |--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|  
               |               X                |
               |--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|  
               |               X                |


From: "boat_works@yahoo.com [electricboats]" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 3, 2017 10:37 PM
Subject: [Electric Boats] Re: Battery monitor idea

 
Maybe I'm missing something here, but since you'll need to isolate the parallel connections to be able to check voltage on an individual series string, do you have an easy way to do that? Plug-in jumpers, maybe? Otherwise monitoring would seem pretty tedious....

-Tom


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Posted by: sv8827 <sv8827@yahoo.com>
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With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage.


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[Electric Boats] Re: Battery monitor idea

 


Hi Mark,

Re battery monitor, this might interest you running on Raspberry Pi:

https://www.victronenergy.com/blog/2017/09/06/raspberry-pi-running-victrons-venus-firmware/

A bit about the guy that ported it:

https://www.victronenergy.com/blog/2017/09/06/raspberry-pi-running-victrons-venus-firmware/

It's open source and the firmware is called Venus which I run on Victron's Color Control GX on my Lithium powered electric yacht,
( https://www.facebook.com/ElektraYachts/ )
hooked up via a 4G router to their free VRM (Victron Remote Management) portal. I can then monitor locally on the boat via the LAN or over the net. Can switch chargers on/off too. Here's a basic guest link to my VRM site:

https://vrm.victronenergy.com/installation/5209/share/584fe721

Another open source project is:

https://openenergymonitor.org/

John

Sent from my iPhone

http://John.Rushworth.com

__._,_.___
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (5)

Have you tried the highest rated email app?
With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage.


.

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Friday, November 3, 2017

[Electric Boats] Re: Battery monitor idea

 

Maybe I'm missing something here, but since you'll need to isolate the parallel connections to be able to check voltage on an individual series string, do you have an easy way to do that? Plug-in jumpers, maybe? Otherwise monitoring would seem pretty tedious....

-Tom

__._,_.___

Posted by: boat_works@yahoo.com
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (4)

Have you tried the highest rated email app?
With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage.


.

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Re: [Electric Boats] Solar Catamaran Videos

 

That is one of the problems with boating: if you are sailing on the boat it takes some effort to find someone to take pictures of it.

Cheers,

Rob Kay
Secretary
Electric Boat Association
104 Stirling Rd, Kilsyth,
G65 0HY
http://www.eboat.org.uk



Home:
Mobile: 0792 2692493
Landline and ansaphone: 01236 823129

On 29 October 2017 at 14:31, Carter Quillen twowheelinguy@yahoo.com [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I was curious to learn more about your boat and went to your youtube channel and viewed about 10 different videos but never could hardly find any picture of the BOAT. I was hoping to see interior and exterior pictures of the vessel itself but could hardly find anything beyond the control console, a solar panel on the horizon, and the helm from the companion way.  Also did a fairly extensive search of your face book and patreon pages and could not find ANY pictures of the BOAT itself from different angles. . 

I'm sure they are there somewhere but I couldn't find them. Your presentation would be a lot more compelling if you had more details about the ve ssel itself front and center. As a long time solar cruiser with an extensive blog and a website I can tell you from experience that we get the most traffic and downloads on our sites from picture of the boat and it's inner workings. People seem much more interested in learning about the vessel itself than our travels.

Could you provide a direct link to where you have hidden the details about your BOAT?  Both exterior and interior pictures would be interesting to me but I could not find any and got tired of looking. 

Capt. Carter
www.archemedesproject.blogspot.com


On Saturday, October 28, 2017 11:58 PM, "albert682@yahoo.com [electricboats]" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:




So I have decided to release publicly all the videos from our summer electric cruise in the Pacific North West.  If your so inclined to watch you can follow along on my Facebook page for the correct chronological order or from my Youtube channel.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6BAWH7F1cixqeoS1XlLYww/videos

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001232554568

It should take some time to post them all.  They are all uploaded already I just have to sort though them as I go make obvious edits and add descriptions and titles to the videos.  You don't want to get behind on this electric cruise video series as we cover much of our time with over some 20 plus da ys with videos while we are underway.

It is the closest thing to actually being there.  Some videos you might find exciting and some perhaps as downright boring and quiet as electric boating videos should be.  Tune in and share in the experience on this one of a kind solar catamaran.






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Posted by: Rob <rob@paperclip.org.uk>
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Have you tried the highest rated email app?
With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage.


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