Thursday, October 1, 2015

Re: [Electric Boats] New Member, Safety Question [1 Attachment]

 
[Attachment(s) from John Paramore included below]

AC might be a threat but DC doesn't seem to be...DC current's one-way
positive to negative and you're probably too resistant. In our APBA
racing series we ran up to 144v, recovering drivers and boats
(partially to fully sunken) without any sense of current or threat.

We also had an entrant show up at kilos with a 240v pack that freaked
out rescue crews and officials and got us limited to 144v by APBA.
Some months later, when the boat's controller bypassed as the driver
was heading out on a test, the boat jumped straight up like a salmon,
dumping the driver. Several of us went in immediately to recover the
boat and driver. We felt no active current, and our only problem was
gaining control of the still running boat (the driver hadn't attached
the kill lanyard to his life-jacket). The lanyard and copper kill chip
are required to shut down the system in a crash or driver departure.
The one pictured below is mounted on a 100+ mph electric drag bike.

I'm currently reworking international rules for electric boat racing,
and among proposed changes are resetting voltage classes to balance
chemistry outputs, and adding a superclass at about 250v

John

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Re: [Electric Boats] New Member, Safety Question [1 Attachment]

 
[Attachment(s) from Ned Farinholt included below]

Ben,


I do not think it would be a problem in re electrocution. I sunk a 60v powered boat and did not feel a thing. I was using lead acid at that time and it went straight to the bottom in 40 feet of water. The batteries were sealed agm's and most took a charge when raised about 9 months later. The short circuited current is going to travel across the battery terminals or across the motor connectors, all very short distances.
The major caution should be that you are not held too tightly in a cockpit. Mine was an open canoe at the time. My present boat is also open and has nowhere near enough flotation. She would go down pretty fast since she is carrying about 500 lbs of LiFePO4 cells, 19 kwh.

Where are you located and what hull configuration are you planning? My email is mailto:nedfarinholt@comcast.net Hope you can get here for the race on Friday, Oct. 9. It should be a blast as we have 11 confirmed entries, some of which are pretty exotic.



Best wishes,
Ned

On Sep 30, 2015, at 3:12 PM, ben_sorkin@yahoo.com [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



Hi all,


I have been designing a boat/system for the Wye Island challenge and had some worst case scenario thoughts.


I am running about 100 volts of lithium batteries, and if the boat were to sink, could close proximity cause electrocution?


Best,


Ben



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Re: [Electric Boats] New Member, Safety Question

 

I would document your plan in detail and pay for a short consultation
with an ABYC-certified marine electrician.
Salt water is safer than fresh since the salt water is a better
conductor than the human body, but fresh water is not so the body
becomes the preferred path to ground for any stray currents in the
water. There are many compensating controls that can be put in place to
make the system safe to operate and safe to be around in a failure
situation.

James Lambden is a very good source of useful, professional information.
He is a member of this list and is a vendor (Electroprop). He can sell
you a complete system or just consult on how the safety of your system
can be improved, or anywhere in between. I have no affiliation with him
other than as a *very* satisfied customer.

From this list, you can get advice and ideas. From the vendors (like
James at Electroprop), you can get professional, useful advice on
fitness to purpose of your plan. Consider it money well spent.

Cheers,

/Jason

On 2015-09-30 15:12, ben_sorkin@yahoo.com [electricboats] wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I have been designing a boat/system for the Wye Island challenge and
> had some worst case scenario thoughts.
>
> I am running about 100 volts of lithium batteries, and if the boat
> were to sink, could close proximity cause electrocution?
>
> Best,
>
> Ben
>
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1]
> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/electricboats/conversations/messages/26788;_ylc=X3oDMTJxMWsyaGcwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzUyMTQzODIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1ODg0MDkwBG1zZ0lkAzI2Nzg4BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTQ0MzY2NDI4Mw--?act=reply&messageNum=26788
> [2]
> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/electricboats/conversations/newtopic;_ylc=X3oDMTJlMzZsMTQwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzUyMTQzODIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1ODg0MDkwBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTQ0MzY2NDI4Mw--
> [3]
> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/electricboats/conversations/topics/26788;_ylc=X3oDMTM2dGI2a2FnBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzUyMTQzODIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1ODg0MDkwBG1zZ0lkAzI2Nzg4BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTQ0MzY2NDI4MwR0cGNJZAMyNjc4OA--
> [4]
> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/electricboats/info;_ylc=X3oDMTJlZWk2MXEwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzUyMTQzODIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1ODg0MDkwBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTQ0MzY2NDI4Mw--
> [5]
> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/electricboats/members/all;_ylc=X3oDMTJmYWJra3ExBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzUyMTQzODIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1ODg0MDkwBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzE0NDM2NjQyODM-
> [6]
> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo;_ylc=X3oDMTJka3NoNm9qBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzUyMTQzODIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1ODg0MDkwBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxNDQzNjY0Mjgz
> [7] https://info.yahoo.com/privacy/us/yahoo/groups/details.html
> [8] https://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/

--
Jason Taylor
--
S/V Fugu
1978 Beneteau First 30
Electroprop PM-20

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Posted by: Jason Taylor <jt.yahoo@jtaylor.ca>
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[Electric Boats] Re: New Member, Safety Question

 

Generally speaking and I am not an expert on safety and listen to my engineers, low voltage dc, less than 50v, are considered safe.  Salt water is safer than fresh water to avoid electrocution.  ac power is much more dangerous and very high caution should be displayed when working with ac in a fresh water body of water.
Mike Electric Yachts of Southern California/Pacific

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Wednesday, September 30, 2015

Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Charger Replacement Recommendations?

 

sounds expensive,  I got a 20 amp/24 volt used wheelchair charger unit for $35.00 --- my guess is this unit is 10x that
 
                     Bill Hopen   -  www.billhopen.com
       Hopen Studio Inc -  227 Main St., Sutton WV 26601
          304 -765-5611                  billhopen@yahoo.com

From: "michaelnachtbus@yahoo.com [electricboats]" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2015 2:43 PM
Subject: [Electric Boats] Re: Charger Replacement Recommendations?

 
Hey Ernie, 

Vendor alert: We sell an adjustable 48v charger with output between 25 and 35 amps. It also is programmable so if you later want to upgrade to lithium you can change the output voltage and charge curve to meet your needs. I think you'll find it's a cost competitive solution compared to the Elcon. Note that this does not offer balancing for each 12v battery. See link here:



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Posted by: Bill and Ai Qiu hopen <billhopen@yahoo.com>
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Re: [Electric Boats] Charger Replacement Recommendations?

 

that sounds scary....lots of power in a battery if it blows/shorts gets hot,  could burn your boat down to the waterline...BTW I like the sealed type / gel cell batteries or FGM with out the hydrogen venting explosion hazard while charging
 
                     Bill Hopen   -  www.billhopen.com
       Hopen Studio Inc -  227 Main St., Sutton WV 26601
          304 -765-5611                  billhopen@yahoo.com

From: "'cal' h20dragon@centurytel.net [electricboats]" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2015 8:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Charger Replacement Recommendations?

 
Blew my first pack that way, don't you just hate battery acid and smoke coming from the locker 200 yards from the dock??  Circuit breakers doing a "reset rumba with castanets".
 


Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2015 6:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Charger Replacement Recommendations?
 
 
I have 48v system of 4 identical 12v 50ah batteries hooked in series  (wheelchair deep cycle types).   but   to recharge, I break the clip link in the center, this gives me essentially two 24v series battery packs,  I then hook up a used 24volt wheel chair battery charger to both packs at once....works great, auto shut off when topped up

if all your cells are identical you can charge them this way....doesn't work well to have disimilar 12v hooked in series, the charge won't evenly bring up both batteries and may stress the smaller one (so I've been told)
 
                     Bill Hopen   -  www.billhopen.com
       Hopen Studio Inc -  227 Main St., Sutton WV 26601
          304 -765-5611                  billhopen@yahoo.com
 
From: "ernestgalvan@yahoo.com [electricboats]" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 1:36 AM
Subject: [Electric Boats] Charger Replacement Recommendations?
 
 
I have an Ericson 30+ with a Thoosa 9K motor.  My only charging is done with shore power.  My charger, a QuadPro has died. Well, half-died It's 4 12V chargers in a package, and 2 out of 4 are dead. 
What do people here like for replacement?  Another QuadPro?  Something that instead would charge the whole 48 bank instead of charging each 12V battery separately?  (Battery is made up of four 4D 12v 198 Amp Hour AGMs.) 
I would like to maximize options like adding solar or running off a portable generator like Bianka does.  Does that impact my charger options?
Any thoughts on Iota?  Or Noco Genius? DSR Industries?  DualPro Eagle?  Others I have not thought of?
The general topic of charging the whole 48V bank versus each battery?  If you do that do you use a separate 4 bank charger for equalization?  
--Ernie Galvan
S/V Zenergy





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Posted by: Bill and Ai Qiu hopen <billhopen@yahoo.com>
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Re: [Electric Boats] Charger Replacement Recommendations?

 

Blew my first pack that way, don't you just hate battery acid and smoke coming from the locker 200 yards from the dock??  Circuit breakers doing a "reset rumba with castanets".
 
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2015 6:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Charger Replacement Recommendations?
 
 

I have 48v system of 4 identical 12v 50ah batteries hooked in series  (wheelchair deep cycle types).   but   to recharge, I break the clip link in the center, this gives me essentially two 24v series battery packs,  I then hook up a used 24volt wheel chair battery charger to both packs at once....works great, auto shut off when topped up

if all your cells are identical you can charge them this way....doesn't work well to have disimilar 12v hooked in series, the charge won't evenly bring up both batteries and may stress the smaller one (so I've been told)
 
                     Bill Hopen   -  www.billhopen.com
       Hopen Studio Inc -  227 Main St., Sutton WV 26601
          304 -765-5611                  billhopen@yahoo.com
 
From: "ernestgalvan@yahoo.com [electricboats]" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 1:36 AM
Subject: [Electric Boats] Charger Replacement Recommendations?
 
 
I have an Ericson 30+ with a Thoosa 9K motor.  My only charging is done with shore power.  My charger, a QuadPro has died. Well, half-died It's 4 12V chargers in a package, and 2 out of 4 are dead. 
What do people here like for replacement?  Another QuadPro?  Something that instead would charge the whole 48 bank instead of charging each 12V battery separately?  (Battery is made up of four 4D 12v 198 Amp Hour AGMs.) 
I would like to maximize options like adding solar or running off a portable generator like Bianka does.  Does that impact my charger options?
Any thoughts on Iota?  Or Noco Genius? DSR Industries?  DualPro Eagle?  Others I have not thought of?
The general topic of charging the whole 48V bank versus each battery?  If you do that do you use a separate 4 bank charger for equalization?  
--Ernie Galvan
S/V Zenergy



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Posted by: "cal" <h20dragon@centurytel.net>
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