Monday, September 9, 2013

RE: RE: Re: Re: [Electric Boats] PAKTRAKR question

 

Sorry, I should have looked at my stuff first.  I have an older CPF 300i.  It appears that most of the information is similar, but fewer items to select (sentences).  I swapped the owner's manuals in the files.

Richard 



--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Looking at pages 98-99 of the Standard Horizon manual, it talks about advanced settings and lists the sentences for each port, but I don't see any that start or contain ER. 

Sorry,  but I don't really understand what the sentences mean.

Richard  



--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Well, let me look into what would be the best solution for you. Can you find out if your chart plotter can display NMEA "Engine Room" (ER code) sentence data?


On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 1:08 PM, <rwsandersii@...> wrote:
 

Dimonic,

I uploaded everything.  If it can't be done, I still appreciate the help. Â Sorry, but I'm a bit helpless when it comes to this stuff, basic electricity is OK, but anything beyond that starts to make my head hurt. 

You'd never guess my dad was a top-notch computer programmer. 

Richard  



--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Ok, so from the information supplied, getting a direct display of the information is pretty simple. Making valid NMEA sentences is easy enough. The question I would have is whether your chart plotter will make any sense of them.

I would think the "Engine Room" (ER) monitoring system talker ID would be appropriate for battery monitoring. However, many systems don't use or respect those codes. Will yours display this information?

It would also be possible to use the Raspberry Pi to directly display the data on a screen of its own, or to export the data via a web server (over WiFi) - so you could view it on screen in a browser such as a phone or a tablet.

I note that there is also an Android app (called PakTrakr) which will act as a monitor for PakTrakr systems. It requires you buy a serial/bluetooth dongle and make a small (soldering) adjustment, and will allow you to display your abttery information on your android device.



--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "Nick" <chernikit@...> wrote:
>
> Paktrakr seems to be hors de combat at present.
>
>
>
> http://www.cloudelectric.com/category-s/7966.htm
>
>
>
> Maybe not the best time to invest in new gear unless pretty cheap.
>
>
>
> - Nick
>
>
>
> From: electricboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:electricboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rwsandersii@...
> Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2013 11:40 AM
> To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Electric Boats] PAKTRAKR question
>
>
>
>
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I did get my electrically powered Compac 27 launched and I'll post a brief summary soon (I keep hoping Yahoo will switch back to the previous format, I hate the way things show in the web version right now, we don't even get our own picture on the front page, right now it is a guy on a mountain bike).
>
> Anyway, my PAKTRAKR display is dead. The remote seems to be running correctly as it is still flashing in the proper sequence. I would guess the displays weren't set up for outside use as it appears they were originally intended for electric cars.
>
> Before I go buy an entire setup (some guy in Europe has some for sale), I was wondering if anyone here knows if there is a "black box" that I could use to convert the PAKTRAKR output to a NMEA protocol that could be displayed on my Standard Horizon 390i chartplotter.
>
> This would have to be a plug and play set up as I'm not knowledgeable enough to program anything to do this.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Richard
>



--

Dominic Amann
M 416-270-4587

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RE: Re: Re: [Electric Boats] PAKTRAKR question

 

Looking at pages 98-99 of the Standard Horizon manual, it talks about advanced settings and lists the sentences for each port, but I don't see any that start or contain ER. 

Sorry,  but I don't really understand what the sentences mean.

Richard 



--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Well, let me look into what would be the best solution for you. Can you find out if your chart plotter can display NMEA "Engine Room" (ER code) sentence data?


On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 1:08 PM, <rwsandersii@...> wrote:
 

Dimonic,

I uploaded everything.  If it can't be done, I still appreciate the help.  Sorry, but I'm a bit helpless when it comes to this stuff, basic electricity is OK, but anything beyond that starts to make my head hurt. 

You'd never guess my dad was a top-notch computer programmer. 

Richard  



--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Ok, so from the information supplied, getting a direct display of the information is pretty simple. Making valid NMEA sentences is easy enough. The question I would have is whether your chart plotter will make any sense of them.

I would think the "Engine Room" (ER) monitoring system talker ID would be appropriate for battery monitoring. However, many systems don't use or respect those codes. Will yours display this information?

It would also be possible to use the Raspberry Pi to directly display the data on a screen of its own, or to export the data via a web server (over WiFi) - so you could view it on screen in a browser such as a phone or a tablet.

I note that there is also an Android app (called PakTrakr) which will act as a monitor for PakTrakr systems. It requires you buy a serial/bluetooth dongle and make a small (soldering) adjustment, and will allow you to display your abttery information on your android device.



--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "Nick" <chernikit@...> wrote:
>
> Paktrakr seems to be hors de combat at present.
>
>
>
> http://www.cloudelectric.com/category-s/7966.htm
>
>
>
> Maybe not the best time to invest in new gear unless pretty cheap.
>
>
>
> - Nick
>
>
>
> From: electricboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:electricboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rwsandersii@...
> Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2013 11:40 AM
> To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Electric Boats] PAKTRAKR question
>
>
>
>
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I did get my electrically powered Compac 27 launched and I'll post a brief summary soon (I keep hoping Yahoo will switch back to the previous format, I hate the way things show in the web version right now, we don't even get our own picture on the front page, right now it is a guy on a mountain bike).
>
> Anyway, my PAKTRAKR display is dead. The remote seems to be running correctly as it is still flashing in the proper sequence. I would guess the displays weren't set up for outside use as it appears they were originally intended for electric cars.
>
> Before I go buy an entire setup (some guy in Europe has some for sale), I was wondering if anyone here knows if there is a "black box" that I could use to convert the PAKTRAKR output to a NMEA protocol that could be displayed on my Standard Horizon 390i chartplotter.
>
> This would have to be a plug and play set up as I'm not knowledgeable enough to program anything to do this.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Richard
>



--

Dominic Amann
M 416-270-4587

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[Electric Boats] RE: electric sternwheeler

 

I can't help you with controllers, but here are a few thoughts on the drive system. Paddlewheels are very efficient at slow speeds and heavy loads. As in props, you want a certain amount of slip. The larger the wheel the more efficient it is because the forces become increasingly tangential to the direction of movement as the radius increases. For ultimate efficiency, make a feathering wheel. Feathering wheels are usually sidewheels, but it is possble to make a feathering sternwheel.


How will you take care of speed reduction? The most straight forward is a chain and sprocket drive.


One thing that you must be careful of is the float depth. On small boats, as people move about, the boat will pitch slightly, changing the float depth. Sternwheelers are sensitive to pitch, moreso than sidewheelers. You might want to include a wheel trimming feature, say a pair of electric actuators to raise and lower the wheel.





--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, <oak_box@...> wrote:

Just a thought....

One of the FEW actual paddlewheel boats that I've seen used a hydraulic engine to turn the wheel (slow, very efficient, very simple - worked great).  I don't know any other details, but it was a great concept.  You could still use electric power for the hydraulic pumps...

Good luck!

From: "elwelldon@..." <elwelldon@...>
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 9, 2013 7:49 AM
Subject: [Electric Boats] electric sternwheeler

 
Greetings everyone.  We're in the process of building a moderately large sternwheel pontoon houseboat here on the Chesapeake.  I would love to get some motor/controller suggestions from the group.  At the moment, we're contemplating using a winch or industrial fork lift motor a la http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdSJ8LXqPp8 .  Since hull speed on this thing would only be around 5kt and planing is not an option, a great deal of power would only be wasted.  Ideas?  Suggestions?

Don


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RE: [Electric Boats] RE: Site changes

 

Looks like Yahoo did all these changes without notice (I'm an owner of another couple of groups). There are actually some improvements, but... notice wd have bn nice.  You'll just have to hack around to figure it out, but there are some help pages:

 

Messages: http://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?page=content&y=PROD_GRPS&locale=en_US&id=SLN4417

Photos: http://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?page=content&y=PROD_GRPS&locale=en_US&id=SLN4423

Files: http://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?page=content&y=PROD_GRPS&locale=en_US&id=SLN15398

 

The bike rider can be changed by the owner when he has time.

 

- Nick

 

From: electricboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:electricboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jongleursailor
Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 8:34 AM
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Electric Boats] RE: perkos switch and battery charger

 

 

Sorry to hijack this discussion, but is

anybody else having trouble with this 

site?  It seems to have changed about

a week ago and now I cannot figure 

out how to get around in it.

 

Any help?  I'd start a new topic, but 

it won't let me.

 

Why is there a bike rider on boulders

on the header?

 

It seems to be a yahoo problem, maybe?

 

Sorry again, and thanks for any help.

 

 



--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, <mevanderkuur@...> wrote:

I'm using a Mastervolt Li ion Ultra, untill now it's doing what it's supposed to. I charge it with a mastervolt charger which is programmed at the correct voltages to start and stop charging. I have shore power connected all times when docked, however I wonder if this is wise to do. Any tips?

Regarding the 50lbs saving on the Dreamliner, fleet wide a weight saving of 50 lbs will reduce fuel cost with approximately $1,000,000.- (and co2 emissions), so indeed, Bravo Boeing!

--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, Robert Lemke <robert-lemke@...> wrote:
>
> Dave,
>
>   Which cells are you using? I use Winston and set my low voltage alarm at 2.8 volts. I paid $1.10 per amp from Balqon. 
>
> Bob
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Dave Steere <dcsteere@...>
> To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 7:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Care and feeding of LiFePo batteries?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Li dead voltage (empty of charge) is around 2.6VDC per cell.  Full charge is around 3.35V (after settling).  You can charge them to as high as 3.7 (some references say 3.8V) without damaging, but they settle for a period of hours to around 3.35V per cell when full.  I have no idea where you got 14V and 16V.  
>
> Likewise, if you discharge them to around 2.6V, they will very likely rejuvenate a bit in a matter of hours (or maybe a day) and you will need to again discharge to get the battery down to empty.  You can buy lithium cells (LiFEPO4) for around $1.25 per Amp Hour.  For example, my EV has 36 cells, each with 120 AH capacity.  Thus my "full tank" voltage is around 121V.  That means I have around 14KW continuous power available.  My pack can deliver much higher current for very brief acceleration, on the order of 600-650 A, but you don't want to do that for more than a few seconds if you want to avoid having a dead duck for a battery pack.  Total price for my pack is around $5400.
>
>   I don't know about trickle charging them, but I do know that just reaching full voltage alone is sometimes not entirely enough.  A short time of constant current charging (after getting there with constant voltage charging) is a good idea when topping off, but one has to be very careful about over charging.  I also can't give you first hand experience with number of cycles.  My EV has been operational for about 14 mos. now and it's looking like around 5 or maybe 6 cells need replacing already.  It's a big disappointment and I don't know yet why this has happened.  I have never had any cell above about 3.8V or below about 2.3V.
>
>   Testing is still in progress, and I'm not real happy about replacing just a few batteries in the pack, knowing that I'll never achieve really good balance with some  that came from completely different production lots.   If you're not familiar with battery balancing, there is lots and lots of on line information about this.  Some of it is pure BS and some is probably pretty accurate.  One can either "bottom balance" or "top balance" and there's lots of controversy about which is the preferable method.  But lithium batteries are much more sensitive about balancing than any form of lead acid, whether it be AGM, flooded, or gel.  One more consideration (and this one is kind of controversial too) is the need for a BMS (battery management system).  Lithium is much more in need of such a capability than lead acid.  Lots  of info about this on the various blogs and other web sites.  I won't enter an opinion on these matters at the risk of stirring
> up a hornet's nest!
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 3:33 PM, oak <oak_box@...> wrote:
>
>
> > 
> >I was concerned to see the statement:
> >"Also they were trickle charged at all times, another no no".
> >
> >
> >Does that apply to LiFePo batteries?
> >Can anyone provide a summary of what the do's and don'ts are for these batteries?
> >
> >
> >This is probably asking wayyyy too much, but wouldn't it be neat if we could make a matrix of FLA, AGM, LiFePo, and show the various properties of each in a side by side arrangement?
> >
> >
> >I'd really like to see this for a 12V battery:
> >
> >
> >PropertyFLAAGMLiFePo
> >"dead" voltage9V9V14V
> >"max" charge v14V14V16V
> >Trickle ch maintain?YesYesno(?)
> >Average cycle life200?300?1200?
> >Average cost (100Ah)$80$180$500+(?)
> >Mainthigh - water/acidnonenone
> >BMSnonostrongly recommended
> >recovery when dead?yesyesno
> >
> >
> >Any other traits we can add to this, or other things to be aware of??
> >Note:  by "recovery" - I heard that a Li battery is very good for holding it's voltage until it's dead.   But once it's dead - it's DEAD.  You can't wait for a few minutes and use it again lightly on the "recovery" like you can for FLA's.
> >
> >
> >John
> >
> >
> >
> >________________________________
> > From: Steve Dolan <sdolan@...>
> >To: "electricboats@yahoogroups.com" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
> >Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 7:10 AM
> >Subject: RE: [Electric Boats] Re: AGM Batteries?
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> >Boeing’s Dreamliner was an “international”
> plane built by contractors all over the world from many countries. As with
> anything like this it was a coordination nightmare. My understanding of this “event”
> was the problem was in the BMS system program not the batteries them selves.
> The system was spec’d to be at 100% charged at all times, something that
> has been determined to be on the ragged edge of theses batteries, you never
> want to overcharge them and this is what happened. They simply where over
> charged causing them to overheat. Also they where trickle charged at all times,
> another no no. I believe there were some issues with the BMS circuit boards as
> well on the bats. As for the chemistry, all it takes is someone to push hard
> from a major supplier from a country that planed to buy the Dreamliner who had
> an interest in sales first to talk someone into their product.   
> > 
> >Steve in Solomons MD
> > 
> >But sport planes don't carry hundreds of passengers. If the amount of
> weight difference between LiFePO and LiCo is that critical, I am sure that it could
> be made up by creating carbon fiber drink carts instead of aluminum ones ;-) or
> reducing the baggage allowance per passenger accordingly. 
> >The Dreamliner packs a total of about 5kwh of lithium batteries. Eric's
> 8kwh pack weighs 200lbs. So how much weight has been saved by using LiCo?
> >Using your own 25% lighter than LiFePO figure, that would amount to a
> whopping 50lbs. The maximum take-off weight of the Dreamliner is about
> 500,000lbs. So we're talking a 1% of 1% weight savings by using LiCo.
>  Bravo Boeing. 
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> All the best,
> Dave Steere
> dcsteere@...
> 850-234-2540  office
> 850-319-6010  cell phone
>

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[Electric Boats] Frustrated in UK

 

Hi All.

This is my first post on your forum...

I have completed 3 x electric boat conversions... 2 of which were cut down 'trolling motors' and 1 x with a 10kw 48 volt direct drive.

Because of the lack of experience and knowledge in the UK, i ended up buying from the US. Evdrives.com

They were really helpful and delivered the whole kit.

My general frustration is that there seems to be a large gap, between 55lb/86lb trolling motors and the next step, which is 5kw perms.

Also, prices for the same kit varies enormously.

I think most people in this group are from the US, where you have lots more experience and knowledge than us in the UK... We still see electric propulsion is a 'black art', but clearly we have been installing electric motors in remote control boats for ever, and the Victorians were doing it in the late 1800's.

So, I'm looking advice as to where a 'full range' of motors, controls, etc can be purchased, as my current project is for a 12ft launch.. Which i have put a 86lb 24v on, but its just not very satisfactory, and a 1500w would be so much better on a direct prop shaft.

Thank you...

Neil

 

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Re: Re: [Electric Boats] PAKTRAKR question

 

Well, let me look into what would be the best solution for you. Can you find out if your chart plotter can display NMEA "Engine Room" (ER code) sentence data?


On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 1:08 PM, <rwsandersii@hotmail.com> wrote:
 

Dimonic,

I uploaded everything.  If it can't be done, I still appreciate the help.  Sorry, but I'm a bit helpless when it comes to this stuff, basic electricity is OK, but anything beyond that starts to make my head hurt. 

You'd never guess my dad was a top-notch computer programmer. 

Richard 



--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Ok, so from the information supplied, getting a direct display of the information is pretty simple. Making valid NMEA sentences is easy enough. The question I would have is whether your chart plotter will make any sense of them.

I would think the "Engine Room" (ER) monitoring system talker ID would be appropriate for battery monitoring. However, many systems don't use or respect those codes. Will yours display this information?

It would also be possible to use the Raspberry Pi to directly display the data on a screen of its own, or to export the data via a web server (over WiFi) - so you could view it on screen in a browser such as a phone or a tablet.

I note that there is also an Android app (called PakTrakr) which will act as a monitor for PakTrakr systems. It requires you buy a serial/bluetooth dongle and make a small (soldering) adjustment, and will allow you to display your abttery information on your android device.



--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "Nick" <chernikit@...> wrote:
>
> Paktrakr seems to be hors de combat at present.
>
>
>
> http://www.cloudelectric.com/category-s/7966.htm
>
>
>
> Maybe not the best time to invest in new gear unless pretty cheap.
>
>
>
> - Nick
>
>
>
> From: electricboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:electricboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rwsandersii@...
> Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2013 11:40 AM
> To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Electric Boats] PAKTRAKR question
>
>
>
>
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I did get my electrically powered Compac 27 launched and I'll post a brief summary soon (I keep hoping Yahoo will switch back to the previous format, I hate the way things show in the web version right now, we don't even get our own picture on the front page, right now it is a guy on a mountain bike).
>
> Anyway, my PAKTRAKR display is dead. The remote seems to be running correctly as it is still flashing in the proper sequence. I would guess the displays weren't set up for outside use as it appears they were originally intended for electric cars.
>
> Before I go buy an entire setup (some guy in Europe has some for sale), I was wondering if anyone here knows if there is a "black box" that I could use to convert the PAKTRAKR output to a NMEA protocol that could be displayed on my Standard Horizon 390i chartplotter.
>
> This would have to be a plug and play set up as I'm not knowledgeable enough to program anything to do this.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Richard
>




--

Dominic Amann
M 416-270-4587

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RE: RE: Re: [Electric Boats] PAKTRAKR question

 

Dimonic,

I went through the standard horizon manual quickly.  Page 93 starts discussion of a "NMEA Display Page" that I believe could be customized to show the data (I think I can even change the labels and track trends).

Richard 



--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Dimonic,

I uploaded everything.  If it can't be done, I still appreciate the help.  Sorry, but I'm a bit helpless when it comes to this stuff, basic electricity is OK, but anything beyond that starts to make my head hurt. 

You'd never guess my dad was a top-notch computer programmer. 

Richard  



--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Ok, so from the information supplied, getting a direct display of the information is pretty simple. Making valid NMEA sentences is easy enough. The question I would have is whether your chart plotter will make any sense of them.

I would think the "Engine Room" (ER) monitoring system talker ID would be appropriate for battery monitoring. However, many systems don't use or respect those codes. Will yours display this information?

It would also be possible to use the Raspberry Pi to directly display the data on a screen of its own, or to export the data via a web server (over WiFi) - so you could view it on screen in a browser such as a phone or a tablet.

I note that there is also an Android app (called PakTrakr) which will act as a monitor for PakTrakr systems. It requires you buy a serial/bluetooth dongle and make a small (soldering) adjustment, and will allow you to display your abttery information on your android device.



--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "Nick" <chernikit@...> wrote:
>
> Paktrakr seems to be hors de combat at present.
>
>
>
> http://www.cloudelectric.com/category-s/7966.htm
>
>
>
> Maybe not the best time to invest in new gear unless pretty cheap.
>
>
>
> - Nick
>
>
>
> From: electricboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:electricboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rwsandersii@...
> Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2013 11:40 AM
> To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Electric Boats] PAKTRAKR question
>
>
>
>
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I did get my electrically powered Compac 27 launched and I'll post a brief summary soon (I keep hoping Yahoo will switch back to the previous format, I hate the way things show in the web version right now, we don't even get our own picture on the front page, right now it is a guy on a mountain bike).
>
> Anyway, my PAKTRAKR display is dead. The remote seems to be running correctly as it is still flashing in the proper sequence. I would guess the displays weren't set up for outside use as it appears they were originally intended for electric cars.
>
> Before I go buy an entire setup (some guy in Europe has some for sale), I was wondering if anyone here knows if there is a "black box" that I could use to convert the PAKTRAKR output to a NMEA protocol that could be displayed on my Standard Horizon 390i chartplotter.
>
> This would have to be a plug and play set up as I'm not knowledgeable enough to program anything to do this.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Richard
>

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