If you could send a sample of the file/data stream the Paktrakr produces, I could write a simple script that converts the output to NMEA. Then I could create a Pi bootable image that does the conversion. So for the price of a Raspberry Pi and a couple of connectors you would have your device.
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Hello everyone,
I did get my electrically powered Compac 27 launched and I'll post a brief summary soon (I keep hoping Yahoo will switch back to the previous format, I hate the way things show in the web version right now, we don't even get our own picture on the front page, right now it is a guy on a mountain bike).
Anyway, my PAKTRAKR display is dead. The remote seems to be running correctly as it is still flashing in the proper sequence. I would guess the displays weren't set up for outside use as it appears they were originally intended for electric cars.
Before I go buy an entire setup (some guy in Europe has some for sale), I was wondering if anyone here knows if there is a "black box" that I could use to convert the PAKTRAKR output to a NMEA protocol that could be displayed on my Standard Horizon 390i chartplotter.
This would have to be a plug and play set up as I'm not knowledgeable enough to program anything to do this.
Thanks,
Richard
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Hi Jam,
I also own an Alden, its a 1960 30' Priscilla. The old Atomic finally went away after faithfully powering my boat for almost 40 years. Now however after reading all the information on this group and not to mention being passed by all sorts of Tesla's, Chevy Volts, and numerous hybrids on my way to work have decided that Electric is the way to go. I am a weekend sailor and only use the motor to clear the marina and the train bridge. Our currents here on the East coast manage only a 3 or so knot run at full ebb or flood, so something that can help push when the wind is light is all I really need.
Have you decided on a motor yet? I am actually thinking of going with Thunderstruck. I tend to be pretty industrious, but having the helping hand of some experts makes the prospect of conversion seem less daunting.
I don't really have the cash to buy lithium, so I am thinking of 2 AGM banks at 48V....
Bryan
--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, jam_jade <no_reply@...> wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I just joined your group. I did look into electric power about 2 years ago so my knowledge is a bit dated. I was wondering if you can fill me in with respect to what is the current state of affairs for an electric propulsion for my vintage sailboat. I have a wooden 36 ft 1935 John Alden with full keel. My old volvo 3B2 is in need of a change soon. I did the calculations a while back with a repower company and it turned out that I needed about 35hp to achieve the hull speed of 7 knots.
>
> Of course with a cruiser sustained power is a consideration. I do have 2 85W solar panels that I'll be installing soon so I guess that's a start.
>
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I have to say Mike I agree re safety. Whatever you fit needs to be able to match the correct prop to the boat, motor and controller. I note folk though often fit more 'powerful' drives than they need to - to achieve hull speed using their old prop that they had when a diesel was fitted.
Moral - fit the right prop for your electric drive. Often the reason they don't get what they expect is because they have not matched the whole system properly. Also it is a question of cost and to decide if you need more continuous thrust than the electric motor and controller 1 hour ratings. If so there is more battery expense and different motor and controller choices. Personally I choose my cruise speed and work from there. That is all a calm water baseline. Usually this will be 1/2 to 2/3rds hull speed (which is where electric is best) and within the 1 controller rating and within the motor rated (not max) current draw. That should be enough to get any sail boat off a lee shore and there is still a system reserve for burst thrust/speed .
I also like to remind folk it is a sailboat.
This sheet of my own boat below shows what I mean. Sure I can burst the power within the burst limits of the controller and motor to hull speed. That is my reserve if you like. You will also note in the sheet it is direct drive and my motor continuous rating of 110 amps mismatches with my controller 80 amp 1 hr rating. That is when you decide to gear on not, which introduces less efficiency but better matching into the system and to some extent more cost and noise as the motor is running faster. but it is better to have volts than amps but geared means other losses. But if you put 1.27 gearing into the sheet you will now see the system voltage spot on and controller and motor ratings matching.
The question is do I want to spend more on batteries, get more noise for the sake of a continuous 1hr cruise at better than my current max cruise speed of 4.5 knots (3/4 hull speed) and optimum of 4 knots. No, is the answer and therein is a risk as such, for safety, but I'm happy with the compromise and there is enough margin in foul conditions.
If I wanted to punch waves in bad offshore conditions I'd have fitted a heavy duty nigh on continuous run diesel that would go all day above 3/4 hull speed and closer to hull speed. But electric suits me. So for safety the question is in my case - To gear or not to gear? I've already chosen and done 600 miles on non geared electric, so diesel is history for me, but still I feel safe.
You will see I'm using a 2.5Kw motor driving a 26 ft boat displacing over 7,000 lbs.
http://John.Rushworth.com/ELEKTRA-Electric_Propulsion_Performance_Modelling_Spreadsheet.xls
--
http://John.Rushworth.co
I have a SolidNav that has never been installed - took it in trade on an upgraded Electric Yacht system. It would push the 6500 pound Paceship 29 with authority. We are in Southern California. Contact me at my website www.electricyachtssocal.com
Now my simple question is why not just replace the A4 as you can usually find good working unit for around $800-$1000 or just do a used 7hp outboard for even less. I find it difficult to get my thinking around the idea of putting something that may be inadequate because it is cheap. When boating I first look at safety and then reasonable cost. The idea of putting in a "cheap" but less than adequate and therefore less safe system is not what I would want to do on any boat. As a vendor I cannot in good conscience and in a society that is litigious sell products that may not provide adequate service to my client. But as a boater, I am truly at a loss to want to put something in my boat that is less than adequate. I have seen too many boats that cannot reach more than 60% of hull speed. In a poor sea state, the boater would be at peril.
Mike Electric Yacht of Southern California
Earlier this summer, someone on this list was selling an electric conversion they no longer needed, and this at a very good price, batteries included. I was unable to jump on it at the time.
Today, a friend called me in a bind. His atomic4 has thrown a rod and he is looking to rip it out and convert. But, he's even more of a cheap bastard than I am. I'm pretty sure he can source some batteries locally, but the drive system is what's lacking.
The boat is a Paceship 29 (C&C 29-1 hull).
The sailing conditions are May-October, on a freshwater lake in the st. Lawrence river. Some current, sometimes. He is very capable of making-do and changing his plans according to conditions of weather and boat.
So, a 3-5kW direct-drive would likely suit him fine. I'm going to point him at the smaller Thunderstruck sailboat kit if nothing pops up in eastern Canada or the NE states.
So how about it? Anyone sitting on an uninstalled conversion collecting dust? Now's your chance to pass the dream off to someone else!
Cheers,
/Jason
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Sorry to hijack this discussion, but is
anybody else having trouble with this
site? It seems to have changed about
a week ago and now I cannot figure
out how to get around in it.
Any help? I'd start a new topic, but
it won't let me.
Why is there a bike rider on boulders
on the header?
It seems to be a yahoo problem, maybe?
Sorry again, and thanks for any help.
--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, Robert Lemke <robert-lemke@...> wrote:
>
> Dave,
>
> Â Which cells are you using? I use Winston and set my low voltage alarm at 2.8 volts. I paid $1.10 per amp from Balqon.Â
>
> Bob
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Dave Steere <dcsteere@...>
> To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 7:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Care and feeding of LiFePo batteries?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Li dead voltage (empty of charge) is around 2.6VDC per cell. Full charge is around 3.35V (after settling). You can charge them to as high as 3.7 (some references say 3.8V) without damaging, but they settle for a period of hours to around 3.35V per cell when full. I have no idea where you got 14V and 16V. Â
>
> Likewise, if you discharge them to around 2.6V, they will very likely rejuvenate a bit in a matter of hours (or maybe a day) and you will need to again discharge to get the battery down to empty. You can buy lithium cells (LiFEPO4) for around $1.25 per Amp Hour. For example, my EV has 36 cells, each with 120 AH capacity. Thus my "full tank" voltage is around 121V. That means I have around 14KW continuous power available. My pack can deliver much higher current for very brief acceleration, on the order of 600-650 A, but you don't want to do that for more than a few seconds if you want to avoid having a dead duck for a battery pack. Total price for my pack is around $5400.
>
>  I don't know about trickle charging them, but I do know that just reaching full voltage alone is sometimes not entirely enough. A short time of constant current charging (after getting there with constant voltage charging) is a good idea when topping off, but one has to be very careful about over charging. I also can't give you first hand experience with number of cycles. My EV has been operational for about 14 mos. now and it's looking like around 5 or maybe 6 cells need replacing already. It's a big disappointment and I don't know yet why this has happened. I have never had any cell above about 3.8V or below about 2.3V.
>
>  Testing is still in progress, and I'm not real happy about replacing just a few batteries in the pack, knowing that I'll never achieve really good balance with some that came from completely different production lots.  If you're not familiar with battery balancing, there is lots and lots of on line information about this. Some of it is pure BS and some is probably pretty accurate. One can either "bottom balance" or "top balance" and there's lots of controversy about which is the preferable method. But lithium batteries are much more sensitive about balancing than any form of lead acid, whether it be AGM, flooded, or gel. One more consideration (and this one is kind of controversial too) is the need for a BMS (battery management system). Lithium is much more in need of such a capability than lead acid. Lots of info about this on the various blogs and other web sites. I won't enter an opinion on these matters at the risk of stirring
> up a hornet's nest!
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 3:33 PM, oak <oak_box@...> wrote:
>
>
> >Â
> >I was concerned to see the statement:
> >"Also they were trickle charged at all times, another no no".
> >
> >
> >Does that apply to LiFePo batteries?
> >Can anyone provide a summary of what the do's and don'ts are for these batteries?
> >
> >
> >This is probably asking wayyyy too much, but wouldn't it be neat if we could make a matrix of FLA, AGM, LiFePo, and show the various properties of each in a side by side arrangement?
> >
> >
> >I'd really like to see this for a 12V battery:
> >
> >
> >PropertyFLAAGMLiFePo
> >"dead" voltage9V9V14V
> >"max" charge v14V14V16V
> >Trickle ch maintain?YesYesno(?)
> >Average cycle life200?300?1200?
> >Average cost (100Ah)$80$180$500+(?)
> >Mainthigh - water/acidnonenone
> >BMSnonostrongly recommended
> >recovery when dead?yesyesno
> >
> >
> >Any other traits we can add to this, or other things to be aware of??
> >Note: Â by "recovery" - I heard that a Li battery is very good for holding it's voltage until it's dead. Â But once it's dead - it's DEAD. Â You can't wait for a few minutes and use it again lightly on the "recovery" like you can for FLA's.
> >
> >
> >John
> >
> >
> >
> >________________________________
> > From: Steve Dolan <sdolan@...>
> >To: "electricboats@yahoogroups.com" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
> >Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 7:10 AM
> >Subject: RE: [Electric Boats] Re: AGM Batteries?
> >
> >
> >
> >Â
> >Boeing’s Dreamliner was an “internationalâ€
> plane built by contractors all over the world from many countries. As with
> anything like this it was a coordination nightmare. My understanding of this “eventâ€
> was the problem was in the BMS system program not the batteries them selves.
> The system was spec’d to be at 100% charged at all times, something that
> has been determined to be on the ragged edge of theses batteries, you never
> want to overcharge them and this is what happened. They simply where over
> charged causing them to overheat. Also they where trickle charged at all times,
> another no no. I believe there were some issues with the BMS circuit boards as
> well on the bats. As for the chemistry, all it takes is someone to push hard
> from a major supplier from a country that planed to buy the Dreamliner who had
> an interest in sales first to talk someone into their product. Â Â
> >Â
> >Steve in Solomons MD
> >Â
> >But sport planes don't carry hundreds of passengers. If the amount of
> weight difference between LiFePO and LiCo is that critical, I am sure that it could
> be made up by creating carbon fiber drink carts instead of aluminum ones ;-) or
> reducing the baggage allowance per passenger accordingly.Â
> >The Dreamliner packs a total of about 5kwh of lithium batteries. Eric's
> 8kwh pack weighs 200lbs. So how much weight has been saved by using LiCo?
> >Using your own 25% lighter than LiFePO figure, that would amount to a
> whopping 50lbs. The maximum take-off weight of the Dreamliner is about
> 500,000lbs. So we're talking a 1% of 1% weight savings by using LiCo.
> Â Bravo Boeing.Â
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> All the best,
> Dave Steere
> dcsteere@...
> 850-234-2540Â office
> 850-319-6010Â cell phone
>
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