Thursday, August 1, 2013

[Electric Boats] Re: regen

 

Nick,

I agree and I'm glad you you made the distinction about charging the house batteries. We've had considerable discussion about regen capabilities and without sustained speeds over 6 knots, in-water generation appears to be limited to 100W or less, regardless of the collection system (dedicated generator or intalled drive system). That is reasonable for recharging a house bank, but really not effective at refilling a traction bank on a normal inland or coastal passage.

My system does regen, I see brief glimpses of less than 1A (50W) and probably averages just above 0.0 when sailing at 5-5.5kts. I figure that it's just gravy. A little free energy that allows me to spin my very draggy prop to no resistance all day without using any of the main storage.

Fair winds,
Eric
Marina de Rey, CA

--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "Nick" <chernikit@...> wrote:
>
> On a sailboat, the sail is one big wind generator, and so underway it's quite simple to power an in-water generator towed or directly attached to the boat for house battery charging.
>
> Nick
>

__._,_.___
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (11)
Recent Activity:
.

__,_._,___

[Electric Boats] Current state of affairs

 

Hello everyone,

I just joined your group. I did look into electric power about 2 years ago so my knowledge is a bit dated. I was wondering if you can fill me in with respect to what is the current state of affairs for an electric propulsion for my vintage sailboat. I have a wooden 36 ft 1935 John Alden with full keel. My old volvo 3B2 is in need of a change soon. I did the calculations a while back with a repower company and it turned out that I needed about 35hp to achieve the hull speed of 7 knots.

Of course with a cruiser sustained power is a consideration. I do have 2 85W solar panels that I'll be installing soon so I guess that's a start.

__._,_.___
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (1)
Recent Activity:
.

__,_._,___

Re: [Electric Boats] Re: wave powered

 

Hi Nick,
Can you send me a few examples of in water generators ?  I am interested in doing this to my boat

Warm Regards,
Rob

On Aug 1, 2013, at 10:13 AM, "Nick" <chernikit@gmail.com> wrote:

 

On a sailboat, the sail is one big wind generator, and so underway it's quite simple to power an in-water generator towed or directly attached to the boat for house battery charging.

Nick

-----Original Message-----
From: electricboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:electricboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Capt. Mike
Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2013 5:24 AM
To: ELECTRIC BOAT GROUP
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: wave powered

One of the things I would like to check out in regards to wave energy is how much my prop and motor might be able to "harvest" when underway in regen mode from passing waves. It seems to me a wave passing under an EP boat operating in regen should be able to tap into some of that passing wave's energy and pulse it into the battery bank without any new technological additions to the system.

Capt. Mike
Sent from on board BIANKA
http://biankablog.blogspot.com

-----Original Message-----
From: "cnc sales (hanermo)" <gcode.fi@gmail.com>
Sender: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 12:22:20
To: <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-to: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: wave powered

The post was similar to the totally ridiculous, technically impossible (with todays materials science/physics) idea of using gyros to stabilise displacements boats.
Seakeeper is one manufacturer. They work, to a limited level, in planing boats, by using large amounts of energy to run gyros.

They are totally impossible on displacement boats like trawlers, where the enegy budget is larger than the carrying capacity of the trawler.
Note: The manufacturer agrees, and of the 51 systems installed, according to the manufacturer, zero are on heavy displacement boats.

As an example, a seakeeper midrange system is about 50.000 €, uses 4 kw for 20 hours to spin up, and uses 2 kW continuously to run.
Such a system on a midrange trawler, say 50 ft, 30 tons.
Needs 2 systems. Uses 8 kw for 20 hours to spin up.
Needs an extra 10 kW generator to run.
Costs 4 kW or about 5 l of fuel, per hour, 24x7, with attendant space, noise, heating.
Requires about 8 square meters for 2 systems, and an extra 10 kW of capacity, and the extra genny required to run.
Would cost about 150-200.000$ extra on a 600 k$ 50 ft trawler (Krogen, Selen, Nordhavn), using up about 2/3 of usable space, and 1/2 or more of carrying capacity at about 5000 kg in mass, including 2 systems, generator, extra noise insulation, extra engineering (to install gyros in central location and move cusrrent systems, extra cooling for boat (you are inputting 10 kw heat in the boat minus ventilation, 24x7) and coat about 200$/day to run+maintenance, so about 6000$/month + maintenance at approx 15% per year).

--
-hanermo

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

__._,_.___
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (22)
Recent Activity:
.

__,_._,___

RE: [Electric Boats] Re: wave powered

 

On a sailboat, the sail is one big wind generator, and so underway it's quite simple to power an in-water generator towed or directly attached to the boat for house battery charging.

Nick

-----Original Message-----
From: electricboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:electricboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Capt. Mike
Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2013 5:24 AM
To: ELECTRIC BOAT GROUP
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: wave powered

One of the things I would like to check out in regards to wave energy is how much my prop and motor might be able to "harvest" when underway in regen mode from passing waves. It seems to me a wave passing under an EP boat operating in regen should be able to tap into some of that passing wave's energy and pulse it into the battery bank without any new technological additions to the system.

Capt. Mike
Sent from on board BIANKA
http://biankablog.blogspot.com

-----Original Message-----
From: "cnc sales (hanermo)" <gcode.fi@gmail.com>
Sender: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 12:22:20
To: <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-to: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: wave powered

The post was similar to the totally ridiculous, technically impossible (with todays materials science/physics) idea of using gyros to stabilise displacements boats.
Seakeeper is one manufacturer. They work, to a limited level, in planing boats, by using large amounts of energy to run gyros.

They are totally impossible on displacement boats like trawlers, where the enegy budget is larger than the carrying capacity of the trawler.
Note: The manufacturer agrees, and of the 51 systems installed, according to the manufacturer, zero are on heavy displacement boats.

As an example, a seakeeper midrange system is about 50.000 €, uses 4 kw for 20 hours to spin up, and uses 2 kW continuously to run.
Such a system on a midrange trawler, say 50 ft, 30 tons.
Needs 2 systems. Uses 8 kw for 20 hours to spin up.
Needs an extra 10 kW generator to run.
Costs 4 kW or about 5 l of fuel, per hour, 24x7, with attendant space, noise, heating.
Requires about 8 square meters for 2 systems, and an extra 10 kW of capacity, and the extra genny required to run.
Would cost about 150-200.000$ extra on a 600 k$ 50 ft trawler (Krogen, Selen, Nordhavn), using up about 2/3 of usable space, and 1/2 or more of carrying capacity at about 5000 kg in mass, including 2 systems, generator, extra noise insulation, extra engineering (to install gyros in central location and move cusrrent systems, extra cooling for boat (you are inputting 10 kw heat in the boat minus ventilation, 24x7) and coat about 200$/day to run+maintenance, so about 6000$/month + maintenance at approx 15% per year).

--
-hanermo

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

__._,_.___
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (10)
Recent Activity:
.

__,_._,___

Re: [Electric Boats] Re: wave powered

One of the things I would like to check out in regards to wave energy is how much my prop and motor might be able to "harvest" when underway in regen mode from passing waves. It seems to me a wave passing under an EP boat operating in regen should be able to tap into some of that passing wave's energy and pulse it into the battery bank without any new technological additions to the system.

Capt. Mike
Sent from on board BIANKA
http://biankablog.blogspot.com

-----Original Message-----
From: "cnc sales (hanermo)" <gcode.fi@gmail.com>
Sender: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 12:22:20
To: <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-to: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: wave powered

The post was similar to the totally ridiculous, technically impossible
(with todays materials science/physics) idea of using gyros to stabilise
displacements boats.
Seakeeper is one manufacturer. They work, to a limited level, in planing
boats, by using large amounts of energy to run gyros.

They are totally impossible on displacement boats like trawlers, where
the enegy budget is larger than the carrying capacity of the trawler.
Note: The manufacturer agrees, and of the 51 systems installed,
according to the manufacturer, zero are on heavy displacement boats.

As an example, a seakeeper midrange system is about 50.000 €, uses 4 kw
for 20 hours to spin up, and uses 2 kW continuously to run.
Such a system on a midrange trawler, say 50 ft, 30 tons.
Needs 2 systems. Uses 8 kw for 20 hours to spin up.
Needs an extra 10 kW generator to run.
Costs 4 kW or about 5 l of fuel, per hour, 24x7, with attendant space,
noise, heating.
Requires about 8 square meters for 2 systems, and an extra 10 kW of
capacity, and the extra genny required to run.
Would cost about 150-200.000$ extra on a 600 k$ 50 ft trawler (Krogen,
Selen, Nordhavn), using up about 2/3 of usable space, and 1/2 or more of
carrying capacity at about 5000 kg in mass, including 2 systems,
generator, extra noise insulation, extra engineering (to install gyros
in central location and move cusrrent systems, extra cooling for boat
(you are inputting 10 kw heat in the boat minus ventilation, 24x7) and
coat about 200$/day to run+maintenance, so about 6000$/month +
maintenance at approx 15% per year).


--
-hanermo



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electricboats/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electricboats/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
electricboats-digest@yahoogroups.com
electricboats-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
electricboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [Electric Boats] Re: wave powered

The post was similar to the totally ridiculous, technically impossible
(with todays materials science/physics) idea of using gyros to stabilise
displacements boats.
Seakeeper is one manufacturer. They work, to a limited level, in planing
boats, by using large amounts of energy to run gyros.

They are totally impossible on displacement boats like trawlers, where
the enegy budget is larger than the carrying capacity of the trawler.
Note: The manufacturer agrees, and of the 51 systems installed,
according to the manufacturer, zero are on heavy displacement boats.

As an example, a seakeeper midrange system is about 50.000 €, uses 4 kw
for 20 hours to spin up, and uses 2 kW continuously to run.
Such a system on a midrange trawler, say 50 ft, 30 tons.
Needs 2 systems. Uses 8 kw for 20 hours to spin up.
Needs an extra 10 kW generator to run.
Costs 4 kW or about 5 l of fuel, per hour, 24x7, with attendant space,
noise, heating.
Requires about 8 square meters for 2 systems, and an extra 10 kW of
capacity, and the extra genny required to run.
Would cost about 150-200.000$ extra on a 600 k$ 50 ft trawler (Krogen,
Selen, Nordhavn), using up about 2/3 of usable space, and 1/2 or more of
carrying capacity at about 5000 kg in mass, including 2 systems,
generator, extra noise insulation, extra engineering (to install gyros
in central location and move cusrrent systems, extra cooling for boat
(you are inputting 10 kw heat in the boat minus ventilation, 24x7) and
coat about 200$/day to run+maintenance, so about 6000$/month +
maintenance at approx 15% per year).


--
-hanermo



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electricboats/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electricboats/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
electricboats-digest@yahoogroups.com
electricboats-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
electricboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [Electric Boats] Re: wave powered

 

I've been interested in ocean wave power since 2006. I proposed doing
it on the BC coast where we have some of the best coastal wave
territory in the world for it.

Instead of an environmentally benign, incrementally constructed, 3
billion dollar wave power facility here, the BC government chose to
do an 8 billion dollar hydro dam and flood a huge valley on the Peace
river in the far north, where the power will have to be transmitted
over vast distances to where it's needed.

I couldn't get a few thousand dollars to do a proof of concept
prototype. A guy in Denmark got an award and government backing a
couple of years later for a similar design.

Usable wave power is estimated in the lower 10's of kilowatts per
linear meter of wave front (it's up to 2 MW/m in severe storms).

Use of wave power in boats for propulsion could be done by the
'direct' mechanical designs indicated, or by making electricity used
to charge batteries that run an electric motor - including while at
anchor. Doing it electrically allows storage. Then the power can be
used at any rate to attain a desired stable speed.

Wave power just might be a better way to generate on board
electricity than a wind plant or solar in some areas.

Cheers,
Craig
www.TurquoiseEnergy.com

__._,_.___
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (7)
Recent Activity:
.

__,_._,___