Friday, July 6, 2012

[Electric Boats] Re: bq34z100 power management chip

 

Extends runtime? That would be pretty cool, a monitor that increases the capacity of your cells. Of course it doesn't really do that.

That's like having a gas gauge that makes your car get better mileage. An more accurate gauge doesn't create more gas nor make the driveline more efficient. However, it would allow you to run closer to empty, if you think that is a good idea....

Fair winds,
Eric
Marina del Rey, CA

--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, Kirk McLoren <kirkmcloren@...> wrote:
>
> http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4376570/Power-management-gauge-measures-multi-cell-batteries?cid=NL_UBM+Electronics 
>
>  
> Power management gauge measures multi-cell batteries
> The bq34z100 power management chip is the first gas gauge in the industry to support a wide range of lithium-ion and lithium iron phosphate chemistries  
>
> It lets you extend run time
>

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Thursday, July 5, 2012

[Electric Boats] bq34z100 power management chip

 

 

Power management gauge measures multi-cell batteries

The bq34z100 power management chip is the first gas gauge in the industry to support a wide range of lithium-ion and lithium iron phosphate chemistries  

It lets you extend run time
 

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Wednesday, July 4, 2012

[Electric Boats] Re: Columbia 9.6 Diesel Electric Hybrid

 

Well we had a good outing last week and I have been going over my notes. The numbers are closer to what we originally were expecting. We have been hampered by the tach not working on the diesel but we have good data for trip management. We are still learning the boat and the system. We also placed second in our class 6 min adjusted speed behind a much newer 39 ft Pacific Seacraft (not so bad for a $2000 boat!).
Previous data was based on shorter runs off of the harbor. Moving up the coast with the diesel into a 1 plus current we charged the batteries to 95% (51.5v). We than drove the boat for 90 minutes under electric at 4.5knots drawing 40amps (that is the speed we seem to get good results (natural speed?). The batteries were brought down to about 40%. We than ran the diesel for 3 hours and recharged the batteries bringing then back up to about 95% (51.4). This is very close to what we were expecting in a more real life passage making. 2 hour diesel and 1 hour electric.
The small 15 hp Yanmar can only charge the batteries at about 1.2 kw at its highest rpm in best circumstances. We did not have enough power in the diesel to run it at that level and still make good passage at a reasonable 4.5knots. Our recharge was at .67kw while running the three hours at 4.5knots. We did a short test by reversing our course by 180 degrees and the speed of the boat increased to 5.5 and the recharge also increased to .9kw. Again this is they unique experience of this boat with with diesel and with this motor.
We also found out that we had certain parameters built into the system. When we put the diesel under full power, as in an emergency power up, the controller turns off the electric generation. Also at slow speeds as you might experience in and out of the slip, the controller again turns off the electric generation. This was programed into the system to allow the diesel while it is not running close to its power efficiency curve to not be burdened by the extra power needs of generating power.
If the hybrid electric were installed coupled with a more powerful diesel in a boat with a better speed through the water, the system could be programed to generate up to 7kw. This is absolutely a design effort by the propulsion engineer who is programing the electric motor and the boat owner needs within the limits of the boat.
My thinking is that we would also be better off to replace the three bladed prop with a two bladed prop. This would likely result in a reduced load to the diesel and should not reduce its efficiency too much while allowing the diesel to possibly drive the generator more effectively. Sometimes you just have to experiment.
Mike
Electric Yachts of Southern California

--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Gunning" <mike@...> wrote:
>
> Looking at 10 to 12 miles range to 40% DOD, 25amp draw for two hours. We will be testing the battery pack and the systems this week with a trip to Long Beach and doing the Border Run 2 Race coming home. Small battery pack for a boat of this size.
> The sail plan is to only use electric in the harbor, day sailing, and adding speed for light wind days. The diesel will be used for passage making on a 50/50 basis when moving up the coast into slight current and normal head wind. One hour diesel and one hour electric. We may add some more battery power to 200AH as that would be a more normal battery bank for this boat and the motor. We have 150AH 12 volt on the boat and could remove that and install 4 more 100AH batteries with a step down charger.
> The plan is to add the clutch to the system later this year making the system chargeable at anchor.
> Mike
> Electric Yacht of Southern California
>
> --- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, danbollinger <no_reply@> wrote:
> >
> > What kind of range to you expect in all electric mode?
> >
> > --- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Gunning" <mike@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I have posted pictures of my 1976 Columbia 9.6 Diesel Electric Hybrid demo boat.
> > >
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electricboats/photos/album/1469361680/pic/list
> > >
> > > The project included the installation of a rebuilt Yanmar 2QM15 of the same vintage. The boat had not moved from it slip for over 3 years and required a complete update of the interior but had great running and standing gear.
> > >
> > > The engine was mounted 6 inched forward with an extension of the shaft because the engine stringers were not in the right place for the motor. The initial sea trials performance of the system has been good. The diesel and electric both push the boat at hull speed. At 4.5 knots the diesel will run the electric in generator mode at 1.2kw and that is about 25amps at 48v. At 25amps the electric will push the boat at 4.5 knots. Seems just about right
> > >
> > > This is our 7.0 Weekender version without the clutch system. The boat has 100 AH AGM batteries with a QuickCharge SCO4825 (25 amp at 48v) charger.
> > >
> > > Mike Gunning
> > > Electric Yacht of Southern California
> > >
> >
>

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Monday, July 2, 2012

[Electric Boats] generator powered by gas turbine. High performance electric

 


fast fast fast
 
You learn from your mistakes...Today I hope not to learn_too_ much. 

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Re: [Electric Boats] Help with Solar Panels Please

 

Hi Steve,

It is a better option to feed the traction bank.  Charging for your house off the traction bank is the best way to keep your navigation equipment working while under way so putting the energy into the traction bank kills two birds with one stone.

If you are just learning might I suggest panels designed for grid tie. Not that lower voltage panels can't grid tie making my statement a little off but... High voltage panels that will charge your bank without a conversion will reduce losses.  95% efficiency from voltage converters can be avoided by choosing a panel that produces the voltage you are needing. Might I also suggest looking at the selection of products Sun electric has to offer(no affiliation). MPPT controllers(Maximum Power Point Tracking) controllers are the best choice for any solar set-up.
A controller for each panel will keep one panel that is partially shaded (one cell is all that is required) from bringing down the complete system. Not unlike one bad cell in our storage bank killing the complete bank.

It is true that MPPT controllers will modify the output voltage, but there are limits, so don't buy without personally investigating each controller you think will work. It is easy to get boondoggled into equipment that has features you don't need, or equipment the seller himself does not understand.  Most controllers claim the ability to control more than one panel systems. This is a claim for uninformed buyers, don't be one of those, understand what they mean before you design your system. I can not fill in this blank because each controller is a different breed, with only the concept linking them together.

Remember the higher the voltage of any part of your system the smaller loads every part like controllers will have to sustain. i.e. control FETs and electrical components are rated for Amps at a rated voltage. So are wire and fuses.

Best of luck with your system

Kevin Pemberton
On 06/27/2012 06:53 AM, Steve Dolan wrote:

 

I've just started to learn and consider solar panels for Electra Glide and could use some input from you guys. I would like to go with 2 panels, probably the Sun 210's giving me 420W total off my dingy davits.
The current system:
I have 144V pack of 12 AGM's but plan on a LiPo4 pack in the future as my propulsion bank. I also have 3 AGM's for my house bank at 12V. The Propulsion bank charges the House bank through a charger/converter (144V to 12V). The shore, regeneration, and genset charge the propulsion bank.

Ideally I would love to charge the Propulsion Bank but if my math is correct I'll only get about 3A at 144V to the bank from solar. The same 2 panels will give me about 35A at 12V if I connect to the House Bank.

Most of the loads during sailing come from the house bank but I don't think I'm using 35A worth of electricity at any time so a lot would be wasted.

Questions:
Does it even make sense to consider going to the Propulsion Bank?
Most solar panels I've seen in the higher Wattage are 24V or higher, does the MPPT convert this to 12V output?
If the MPPT does load diversion (diverting power to a device such as a water heater or frig (Load Dumping?)) is this normally a connection at the MPPT of the device or does the device know not to get power from the house bank at the same time? This part is really confusing to me, I guess with a HWH you can control the device power input with a thermal switch but if I wanted to run a frig it has no such shut-off switch. For that matter what happens when you don't have sun for a few days and the wife just used up the 11gal tank?

Like I said I'm just know getting into this and think that the solar panels are the way to go it's just confusing on some issues.

Thanks in advance,
Steve in Solomons MD
Lagoon 410 SE


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[Electric Boats] Re: Help with Solar Panels Please

 

I just wanted to chime in that my charge controller, a MidNite Solar Classic 150, appears to be both an MPPT charge controller and load control device, at least within some parameters such as turning on or off at high or low voltages, when in float mode, at dawn or dusk. It doesn't help the original poster because the biggest model they make can only handle 120v battery banks not his 144v bank, and also the price is a bit hard to swallow for our application since these are designed for off grid houses and other bigger systems and therefore have extra capacity (pretty sure my panels are never going to generate 90 amps).

--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, Mike <biankablog@...> wrote:
>
> Steve:
>
> I don't have a load diverter setup but, I do tap into my 10kw 48 volt propulsion bank when I need to manually:
> http://biankablog.blogspot.com/2010/09/energy-epiphany.html 
>
> I have an Engel refrigerator/freezer I use in full time freezer mode and my two 75 watt solar panels do a pretty good job keeping up with the demand most days. I tap into my propulsion bank when I want to use things like my laptop to avoid drawing down the 12 volt bank further. Since once I am at anchor and have charged the bank the 48 volt propulsion bank it is pretty much sitting there fully charged doing nothing. I guess I could also use it to prop up the 12 volt house bank too. A diverter circuit connected to a 48 volt to 12 volt converter would do this automatically I guess. You'd need a 144 to 12 volt of course.
>
> As far as charging. I came back from a sail recently and my propulsion  battery capacity had dropped to 97% as read on XBM battery monitor. Three days later (including one day of rain and clouds) it was back up to 100%  using two 60 watt 48 volt solar panels and that was with a pretty large boom shadow on the solar bimini panels:
> http://biankablog.blogspot.com/2012/01/solar-bimini-part-seven-panels.html
>
> Manually tapping into the propulsion bank for me is simply a matter of connecting the 48 volt to 12 volt converter into the 48 volt solar controller's output connection (which already has a low voltage cutoff protection circuit built in to it). Personally, I don't really see the need for me to buy a diverter type of controller at this time as I can do this manually easily enough when I'm on board able to monitor both battery banks. 
>
> Capt. Mike
> http://biankablog.blogspot.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Steve Dolan <sdolan@...>
> To: "electricboats@yahoogroups.com" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 3:04 PM
> Subject: RE: [Electric Boats] Help with Solar Panels Please
>
>
>  
> Great info coming in Guys THANKS!,
>  
> Totally (pleasantly) surprised at the
> Propulsion Bank votes, it’s really the way I would prefer to go and
> seemed to be in line with the rest of the system. I’ll look at some
> equipment tonight on the net and see what you all are talking about.
> I don’t know if shading is going to
> be an issue since both panels will be side by side off the back of the boat so if
> one is partially shaded they probably will both be. The boom shouldn’t
> come into play but I will look into it. I also thought the MPPT controllers were
> to take care of the partial shading with the diodes in the panels but will
> listen to the ideas being thrown out there. Please keep it coming!
>   
>  
> Steve in Solomons MD
> Lagoon 410 SE
>  
>
> ________________________________
>
> From:electricboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto: electricboats@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of chris Baker
> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012
> 2:26 PM
> To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Help
> with Solar Panels Please
>  
>
>
> Hi Carter and Steve
>  
> The reason for suggesting two controllers is to get the best output
> from the solar array.  When one panel is shaded its voltage and current
> will be different to the other panel.  A single controller will not be
> able to see the difference and will be trying to optimise the output for the
> combined output which can be choked by the shaded panel.
>  
> If they are separately controlled the MPPT device can have the best
> opportunity to optimise the output for the particular voltage/amps combination
> of that panel.
>  
> Cheers
>  
> Chris
>  
> On 28/06/2012, at 4:00 AM, Carter Quillen wrote:
>
>
>  
>  
> I wouldn't
> spend the money on two controllers because the panels have blocking diodes in
> them to address the partial shading issue.
>  
> Also, check
> the Xantrex C series controllers, I think you might be able to use one in
> conjunction with your MPPT charge controller to get where you want. The C
> series can be condigured as either a PWM charge controller or a load
> diverter.
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>

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Sunday, July 1, 2012

Re: [Electric Boats] Help with Solar Panels Please

 

Steve:

I don't have a load diverter setup but, I do tap into my 10kw 48 volt propulsion bank when I need to manually:
I have an Engel refrigerator/freezer I use in full time freezer mode and my two 75 watt solar panels do a pretty good job keeping up with the demand most days. I tap into my propulsion bank when I want to use things like my laptop to avoid drawing down the 12 volt bank further. Since once I am at anchor and have charged the bank the 48 volt propulsion bank it is pretty much sitting there fully charged doing nothing. I guess I could also use it to prop up the 12 volt house bank too. A diverter circuit connected to a 48 volt to 12 volt converter would do this automatically I guess. You'd need a 144 to 12 volt of course.

As far as charging. I came back from a sail recently and my propulsion  battery capacity had dropped to 97% as read on XBM battery monitor. Three days later (including one day of rain and clouds) it was back up to 100%  using two 60 watt 48 volt solar panels and that was with a pretty large boom shadow on the solar bimini panels:

Manually tapping into the propulsion bank for me is simply a matter of connecting the 48 volt to 12 volt converter into the 48 volt solar controller's output connection (which already has a low voltage cutoff protection circuit built in to it). Personally, I don't really see the need for me to buy a diverter type of controller at this time as I can do this manually easily enough when I'm on board able to monitor both battery banks. 

Capt. Mike
http://biankablog.blogspot.com







From: Steve Dolan <sdolan@scannersllc.com>
To: "electricboats@yahoogroups.com" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 3:04 PM
Subject: RE: [Electric Boats] Help with Solar Panels Please

 
Great info coming in Guys THANKS!,
 
Totally (pleasantly) surprised at the Propulsion Bank votes, it's really the way I would prefer to go and seemed to be in line with the rest of the system. I'll look at some equipment tonight on the net and see what you all are talking about.
I don't know if shading is going to be an issue since both panels will be side by side off the back of the boat so if one is partially shaded they probably will both be. The boom shouldn't come into play but I will look into it. I also thought the MPPT controllers were to take care of the partial shading with the diodes in the panels but will listen to the ideas being thrown out there. Please keep it coming!
  
 
Steve in Solomons MD
Lagoon 410 SE
 
From: electricboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto: electricboats@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of chris Baker
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 2:26 PM
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Help with Solar Panels Please
 


Hi Carter and Steve
 
The reason for suggesting two controllers is to get the best output from the solar array.  When one panel is shaded its voltage and current will be different to the other panel.  A single controller will not be able to see the difference and will be trying to optimise the output for the combined output which can be choked by the shaded panel.
 
If they are separately controlled the MPPT device can have the best opportunity to optimise the output for the particular voltage/amps combination of that panel.
 
Cheers
 
Chris
 
On 28/06/2012, at 4:00 AM, Carter Quillen wrote:


 
 
I wouldn't spend the money on two controllers because the panels have blocking diodes in them to address the partial shading issue.
 
Also, check the Xantrex C series controllers, I think you might be able to use one in conjunction with your MPPT charge controller to get where you want. The C series can be condigured as either a PWM charge controller or a load diverter.
 
 
 
 
 



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