Bill Gow wrote:
> From: osirissail
> [Bill Gow] I'm thinking it'll be sooner than that. The electric car
> industry will push it. I'm even leaning towards going diesel-electric with
> just a little battery storage so when something comes along, I'm already
> half way there. I just need to find a generator that doesn't weigh 500 Lbs
> that can drive two electric Asmo 6000 motors. Even this gets very heavy
> compared to a couple outboards
At least with an inboard solution, the additional weight is not all
located on the transom.
You can place your batteries and even your generator where they have the
most desirable (or lest undesirable) affect on trim.
Trade-offs. It's all about the trade-offs.
Cheers,
/Jason
Tuesday, December 8, 2009
Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Electric Catamaran
RE: [Electric Boats] Re: Electric Catamaran
RE: [Electric Boats] Re: Electric Catamaran
From: osirissailThe electric technology for energy storage and generation is not there yet for what you want 500 nm and a gale or two. Diesel is still the cost effective proven workhorse. Gasoline outboards have the problem of how to store that much gasoline without blowing yourself up at worst and not being able to get insurance at best. Unfortunately the diesel outboard development collapsed so that leaves diesel directly to props or diesel to generator to motors. The latter is just too costly in both dollars and pounds of weight (batteries). As a sailing catamaran you should be able to sail that distance safely - both boat and crew experience - or don't go out in those situations until the boat and crew are able. Any motor is for entry and exit to harbors or to claw off a lee shore. And in such an emergency I would prefer an old proven diesel to electric. There are just too many unproven and "new" things about small electric propulsion from propellers, pod mounting, electric bus wiring, batteries, etc. to be comfortable and confident in a do or die situation. Wait a decade or two . . .
[Bill Gow] I'm thinking it'll be sooner than that. The electric car industry will push it. I'm even leaning towards going diesel-electric with just a little battery storage so when something comes along, I'm already half way there. I just need to find a generator that doesn't weigh 500 Lbs that can drive two electric Asmo 6000 motors. Even this gets very heavy compared to a couple outboards.
[Electric Boats] Re: Electric Catamaran
While this conversation is off topic for an electric boats discussion group, millions and millions of power boats, cars and planes use gasoline rather than diesel every day without blowing up or having issues getting insured. Gasoline, diesel and electric are all effective solutions for different propulsion requirements. It's all about picking the right tool for the job. This choice is not a "one size fits all", there is no single answer to meet every boater's needs.
I recently re-powered my F-27 trimaran with a 4-stroke gasoline outboard, nothing else came close to the weight, performance, cost and simplicity of this solution. Alternatively, the current re-power project of my 30' ketch is electric because I consider that to be the best answer for the way that I use this boat. Just try to be realistic about what you actually need, and let your requirements define your solution.
Fair winds,
Eric
1990 F-27F - Witchcraft
1964 Cheoy Lee Bermuda 30 - Serenity
Marina del Rey, CA
--- In electricboats@
>
> .... Gasoline outboards have the problem of how to store that much gasoline without blowing yourself up at worst and not being able to get insurance at best....
Monday, December 7, 2009
RE: [Electric Boats] Re: Electric Catamaran
-----Original Message-----
From: qc_ca_666
Have a look at my dream boat:
http://www.transatlantic21.org/ boat
The Sun21 has everything (minus the sails...) you are looking for: ocean capable, infinite range, no fossil fuel, 56 knots 24 hours a day. Unfortunately, the 10 kw solar array will cost you an arm and a leg...
[Bill Gow] That's awesome! You have to be inspired by something like that. It's proof someone is closing the gap.
[Electric Boats] Re: Electric Catamaran
The electric technology for energy storage and generation is not there yet for what you want 500 nm and a gale or two. Diesel is still the cost effective proven workhorse. Gasoline outboards have the problem of how to store that much gasoline without blowing yourself up at worst and not being able to get insurance at best. Unfortunately the diesel outboard development collapsed so that leaves diesel directly to props or diesel to generator to motors. The latter is just too costly in both dollars and pounds of weight (batteries). As a sailing catamaran you should be able to sail that distance safely - both boat and crew experience - or don't go out in those situations until the boat and crew are able. Any motor is for entry and exit to harbors or to claw off a lee shore. And in such an emergency I would prefer an old proven diesel to electric. There are just too many unproven and "new" things about small electric propulsion from propellers, pod mounting, electric bus wiring, batteries, etc. to be comfortable and confident in a do or die situation. Wait a decade or two . . .
--- In electricboats@
>
> This looks like the kiss of death for my electric cat. If these guys are
> telling me I need a ton of lithium iron phosphate batteries (per motor), I
> can only imagine what conventional lead acid batteries would weigh. I could
> go diesel electric but just one electric motor costs more than two 20 Hp
> 4-stroke outboards, to say nothing of the diesel generator...
>
> I may still go with the lithium iron phosphate batteries and 315 W solar
> panels, though. That should give me much better reserve power for all my
> electrical equipment and better recharging as well. I hope I never need the
> outboards but if I do, I want them to have enough thrust to push my boat
> into a gale, navigate a rip current, maneuver quickly with a 400 Lb marlin
> in the line or take me to the next port in calm winds. I'm looking for a
> minimum of 500 mile range and I'll bet less that 100 gallons of fuel will
> get me that with the outboards.
>
> Thanks for the help. Nothing would have made me happier than to do this with
> 100% electric but that time hasn't come yet, I guess.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [mailto:market04@
>
>
> Regarding the battery pack,I have checked it with our engineer.If you want
> it work for 6 hours,we should make 48V1000Ah battery pack for each motor .So
> we should make two 48V1000Ah for your two motors.However,
> battery pack is about 1000 kilogram(about 1 ton) and we are not sure whether
> your boat can stand this weight.
>
> If the weight is two heavy for your boat,would you please tell us the max
> weigh you want and then we will design for other capacity.Hope your
> consideration,
>
> Hope your comment about that,
>
>
> Thanks&Best Regards,
>
> Krystal
> Oversea Sales
> Heter Battery Technology Co.,Ltd
> E-mail:market04@
> Tel: +86-632-5292 912
> Fax:+86-632-
> MSN:krystal2010@
> Website: www.heterbattery.
>
[Electric Boats] Richmond CA meeting brief debrief
At several of your suggestions: here is a brief report from my perspective of the open meeting at the KKMI boatyard about electric
propulsion for 30' ish sailboats.
7 attendees, plus Torqeedo sent their regrets for missing it. Speaking of manufacturers, Arby Bernt displayed and explained his 2Kw 24V 35 pound brushless DC motor with integral controller. Arby answered questions with considerable precision and highly granular detail.
Lloyd (a Tesla contractor and big boat delivery captain) shared ocean practical use information on the limits of electric propulsion, and his plans to install 10Kwatts of electric auxiliary propulsion in his Lagoon42. (Lloyd, have you talked with Arjan Bok about his disappointing experience with his catamaran www.rotkat.com)
Jim was collecting details for his electric repower of a 30' sailboat.
Elizabeth is hoping for an easy repower for her 30' sailboat.
Brian was visiting from the local sailing club.
Konda wonders if she wants to help guide GreenMarineRePower.
Mark Stafford learned quite a bit, and appreciated all the perspectives.
Thank you all for your interest.
Mark