Hi Bill,
Have a look at my dream boat:
http://www.transatl
The Sun21 has everything (minus the sails...) you are looking for: ocean capable, infinite range, no fossil fuel, 5–6 knots 24 hours a day. Unfortunately, the 10 kw solar array will cost you an arm and a leg...
Enjoy!
Pierre
Hi Russ,
Good to know of another SF boater - so far myself, Hans, Mark, Kevin (Arby's motor) and the guy with LION whose name escapes me is all I can confirm. There's another fellow - a pioneer with a Rawson 30 named Steve but I don't think he frequents the group. I've heard of 2 or 3 other boats - including one right next to mine in Brisbane but I've never been able to contact the owner.
I won't be able to make it either being a workday, but would be interested to hear the outcome.
-Keith
--- In electricboats@ yahoogroups. com, russ1302 <no_reply@.. .> wrote:
>
>
> I recently completed an electric conversion on my Newport 27 and would love to join you, but I'm not going to be available. Let us all know if thing like this are going to happen in the future.
> Russ
>
> --- In electricboats@ yahoogroups. com, "Mark" <mstafford@> wrote:
> >
> > This is an open invite for an impromptu meeting in Richmond, CA about electric propulsion for 30' ish sailboats. Two people I ran into at KKMI boatyard need repowers, and are interested in the electric possibilities. My boat is there now, so I volunteered to meet them Monday, Dec 7th at 11:00am in the canvas shop of Durrant Designs. Anybody here is welcome to come there and participate in any manner they see fit.
> >
> > Sorry Matti, I have no airfare money for reimbursement. I'll work on that though :-)
> >
> > Manufacturers, e-boat owners, enthusiasts. ... just be open about your motivations for being there and it will be a productive time.
> >
> > Sorry for the sudden notice. Look up KKMI for location. Call or email me if you wish more context or information. I have nothing to sell, and am not asking for any money.
> >
> > Mark Stafford 925-586-0839cell
> > mstafford at natca dot net
> >
>
| Can anybody pick me up at the Berkeley Marina on their way to KKMI? "It's exhausting being this vigilant." Jim Halpert |
Mark Stafford here appreciating your summary. I need clarification of your last sentence: "There is a major market for electric propulsion but it just does not include boats out in the oceans or islands." I think you were refering to battery-electric propulsion, as opposed to diesel-electric propulsion. Battery-electric propulsion is extremely reliable but measured in minutes. Diesel-electric (diesel motor driving generator driving propulsion electric motor) wins the distance and efficiency calculations, though is more expensive than diesel only propulsion. On a properly engineered system, the losses of diesel-generator-
--- In electricboats@
>
> Simply put yes! Electric is maturing quickly, but still has the horse collar of battery weights. As the electric automobile matures and feeds the battery development arena, maybe some of that will filter down to other "alternate" power systems. But not quite yet.
>
> The electric motors and all the supporting equipment as matured to the point of being available and reliable. Even the truly huge cruise ships utilize electric propulsion versus the old fashioned meter thick propeller shafts and gears. But since the cruise ships are really just huge floating "Las Vegas" style hotels they generate amazing amounts of electricity to support the "show" and can direct that same power to their electric pod propellers.
>
> Sailboats just do not have the need for continuous 100-200 amp power generation so the use of electric propulsion lays a heavy weight burden in storage batteries. The normal power train is from petro fuel to combustion engine motor to propeller to thrust. Introducing electric motors adds two more intermediate efficiently lowering items and now you get fuel to combustion engine to electric generator to storage batteries to electric motor to propeller to thrust.
>
> All the threads talk about storage capacities measures in a minutes to a couple of hours versus days of diesel fuel motoring (or gasoline or power boats).
>
> Where electric motor propulsion shines brightly is in eco-sensitive environments like lakes, rivers, and some harbors. Small light day-sailing boats can utilize electric propulsion and save all the hassles of diesel engines, tanks, and maintenance of infrequently used combustion engines. There is a major market for electric propulsion but it just does not include boats out in the oceans or islands.
>
> --- In electricboats@
> >
> > Hello Group!
> >
> >
> >
> > I just joined today. The reason for my interest is finding help in planning
> > out an electric alternative to conventional internal combustion engines on a
> > catamaran I'm beginning to conceptualize.
> >
> >
> >
> > The dimensions will be ~ LOA 36', Beam 22', Mast Height 60'. It will be a
> > light, fast, demountable sailboat that will fit on a trailer ~ 8' wide for
> > towing anywhere. I may consider going into production if this works as I
> > plan. The first one will be used to do a lot of fishing in the Pacific Ocean
> > from Mexico to Panama. Weight is critical! Reliable power is critical. The
> > boat will have all the necessary systems to sustain 4 adults for extended
> > voyages, maybe even an ocean crossing some day. 3 or 4 knots in calm waters
> > is of no use to me. I have to be able to control my boat in high winds and
> > surging ocean currents and troll or motor at above 6 knots for extended
> > periods. I have a couple things most sailboats do not, twin hulls = less
> > weight for a much larger usable space and a huge hard bimini top for solar
> > (~13'X14'). I'd like to cover this bimini with something like the Uni-Solar
> > (http://www.uni-
> > them up there and they'll weigh less than 100 Lbs.
> >
> >
> >
> > It looks like my bogey is battery weight. There is no way I'm adding a ton
> > of lead to this boat! I can get great performance from a couple 20HP
> > outboards that weigh less than 120 Lbs each. Is there any hope of electric
> > propulsion or am I dreaming?
> >
>
Does anyone know the cost of that sunpowercorp 315w panel.
rich
--- In electricboats@
>
> I believe these are the most efficient PV panels on the market.
>
> http://us.sunpowerc
>
> I've been looking at the 315s for my modified Duffy launch. They are 41x63 inches and put out 315W at peak.
>
> Jim
>
> (If anyone is curious, I've got an old Duffy 18 double-ender with an Electric Yacht system and an oversized prop. According to the numbers, 3 of those panels will allow me to do over 4kt on pure solar. There's also room for 12 Trojan T-125s in the battery hold, which would give me a range of around 50 miles at 4.5 to 5 kt. I haven't installed the big battery bank or solar panels yet, but based on preliminary testing of amps-vs-kts the numbers should be pretty close.)
>
> --- In electricboats@
> >
> >
> > From: David Goldsmith
> >
> > Off the cuff it sounds to me like you're dreaming.
> >
> > 8 of those PVL-68s is only a 544 watt array.
> >
> > - I've been agonizing over this electric power option for almost a month
> > now and I finally figured I had to discuss this with people with more
> > experience than I have. Thanks for the quick and straightforward response!
> >
> > From: Eric
> >
> > There is no way that you can beat the power to weight ratio, economy, or
> > simplicity of regular outboards with any type of electric propulsion.
> >
> > BTW, using lead acid batteries, 1000 pounds will get you 22.5 Kwh total,
> > 13.5Kwh usable. With LiFePO4, 800 pounds can get you 32Kwh total, or 24 Kwh
> > usable for almost three times the cost. As somebody else mentioned, 8 PV68
> > panels will only provide 544w under optimum conditions, usually less than
> > 400w, which won't drive you at 2.5 knots, or would take 4 sunny days to
> > charge 12Kwh at anchor.
> >
> > - Thanks, Eric! Hey, I sailed my first catamarans out of Marina del Rey! A
> > Sol Cat and later a Nacra. I sailed the Tuesday night races for a while. I
> > remember many nights sitting becalmed just outside of that breakwall... ;)
> > I also have a very funny story about blowing down the channel at the public
> > boat launch in Santa Anna conditions and pitch polling right out in the main
> > channel in front of about a gazillion spectators..
> >
> > - I've read a little about the Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries. I think
> > they'll become a viable alternative once the auto manufacturers are using
> > them.
> >
> > - I need lightweight solar. Is there something better than the PVL-68
> > laminates? I've searched around and these look like my best bet.
> >
> > - I have a couple other methods of recharging batteries. My electric motors
> > can regenerate electricity and at anchor, I'll set up a wind generator.
> >
> > - Besides propulsion, I'll be using a lot of electricity for refrigeration,
> > navigation electronics, water maker, pumps (bilge, baitwells and tuna
> > tubes), and lights, etc..
> >
> > - Would it make better sense to go diesel electric and wait for the battery
> > technology to mature a little more?
> >
> > - I'm not put off by the initial cost of the batteries. I know, over time,
> > they more than pay for themselves. Even more important, I'll always have
> > power. Something I may not have available while at sea for long periods of
> > time otherwise. I think the best thing about the LiFePO4 technology is
> > flexibility in shape. Instead of dedicating a large square battery
> > compartment, I can stash them in more convenient places where space allows.
> >
> > - Thanks for all the advice!
> >
>
Hei Bill
I don't have an electric system myself, but much like you I am also dreaming of installing one on a sailboat. There is a couple of providers which might be interesting for you checking out. One is the often mentioned Bellmann (www.bellmann.
Another interesting link for you might be www.e-jet.org. Although they are not in the marked yet, they might be some day. And the pictures they have of a yacht look quite nice though it is only a monohull http://picasaweb.
In any case I believe you will need a powerful generator to drive the electric engines, but thats only one ICE instead of two and you will be able to efficiently use it to power all the rest of your electric equipment while charging the battery bank independent of propulsion. On a sunny, windy day you then might end up running the generator very little ;-)
Matti
--- In electricboats@
>
>
> From: Eric
>
> PV panels don't generate any heat, but they do collect it. Hard panels over
> a hard bimini actually lower the temperature on deck, underneath the cover.
> The panels need a small air gap for cooling so the hard bimini ends up in
> the shade. Many people use the panels as their bimini with nothing
> underneath, these act similar to a regular hard top, though probably a
> little warmer underneath because they're black on top. Putting an additional
> layer between you and the panels, perhaps even canvas, should mitigate that
> issue.
>
>
>
> You can probably guess, I'm trying to save a couple pounds wherever I can. I
> was thinking of going with a targa style arch in the back for my traveler
> and attaching the panels to that with aluminum supports and tying it
> altogether with a walkway down the center (basically an aluminum frame
> holding up everything). I can't have exposed wiring under the bimini so I'll
> probably have to go with the continuous hard bimini, front to back.
>
> I've just spent the last couple hours shopping for electric motors. I'm
> wondering if I can get away with something in the 36 volt range. These guys
> (www.kraeutler.
> of power systems, including sail drives. I know the Volvo diesel sail drives
> have been a nightmare on the bigger charter cats. I don't think these are
> regenerative either, unlike the Asmo.
>
