Sunday, December 6, 2009

[Electric Boats] Re: Electric Catamaran

 

Bill

There is no way that you can beat the power to weight ratio, economy, or simplicity of regular outboards with any type of electric propulsion. That said, If you're trying to maneuver your boat in wind higher than 6 knots or so, why not sail the boat... ;) If you're deep offshore and a hurricane sneaks up on you, then go to bare poles and continue sailing, the only time you'll really to power upwind is crawling off a lee shore, usually not problem when you're way offshore.

If your problem is trolling at 6 knots in a dead calm, then go with ICE outboards.

BTW, using lead acid batteries, 1000 pounds will get you 22.5 Kwh total, 13.5Kwh usable. With LiFePO4, 800 pounds can get you 32Kwh total, or 24 Kwh usable for almost three times the cost. As somebody else mentioned, 8 PV68 panels will only provide 544w under optimum conditions, usually less than 400w, which won't drive you at 2.5 knots, or would take 4 sunny days to charge 12Kwh at anchor.

Try to remember, there's no free lunch. Everything is tradeoffs. There is a reason that a hundred people before you haven't succeeded with a similar plan.

Fair winds,
Eric
Marina del Rey, CA

PS. 36' x 22' demountable to 8'? Check the Newport to Ensenada 2009 results. Minnette is is a 40' demountable cat that finished the 125 nm course in 14 hours. She was built over 20 years ago by Mike Leneman. I was second in the crew of four with Mike this year for her latest international offshore win. Minnette has 2 conventional outboards, current electric technology is not an effective propulsion solution for this boat or most un-ballasted boats like multihulls.

--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Gow" <billgow@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Group!
>
>
>
> I just joined today. The reason for my interest is finding help in planning
> out an electric alternative to conventional internal combustion engines on a
> catamaran I'm beginning to conceptualize.
>
>
>
> The dimensions will be ~ LOA 36', Beam 22', Mast Height 60'. It will be a
> light, fast, demountable sailboat that will fit on a trailer ~ 8' wide for
> towing anywhere. I may consider going into production if this works as I
> plan. The first one will be used to do a lot of fishing in the Pacific Ocean
> from Mexico to Panama. Weight is critical! Reliable power is critical. The
> boat will have all the necessary systems to sustain 4 adults for extended
> voyages, maybe even an ocean crossing some day. 3 or 4 knots in calm waters
> is of no use to me. I have to be able to control my boat in high winds and
> surging ocean currents and troll or motor at above 6 knots for extended
> periods. I have a couple things most sailboats do not, twin hulls = less
> weight for a much larger usable space and a huge hard bimini top for solar
> (~13'X14'). I'd like to cover this bimini with something like the Uni-Solar
> (http://www.uni-solar.com) PVL-68 laminates. I figure I can get 8 of the
> them up there and they'll weigh less than 100 Lbs.
>
>
>
> It looks like my bogey is battery weight. There is no way I'm adding a ton
> of lead to this boat! I can get great performance from a couple 20HP
> outboards that weigh less than 120 Lbs each. Is there any hope of electric
> propulsion or am I dreaming?
>

__._,_.___
.

__,_._,___

Saturday, December 5, 2009

[Electric Boats] Re: Green boating near San Francisco

 


I recently completed an electric conversion on my Newport 27 and would love to join you, but I'm not going to be available. Let us all know if thing like this are going to happen in the future.
Russ

--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <mstafford@...> wrote:
>
> This is an open invite for an impromptu meeting in Richmond, CA about electric propulsion for 30' ish sailboats. Two people I ran into at KKMI boatyard need repowers, and are interested in the electric possibilities. My boat is there now, so I volunteered to meet them Monday, Dec 7th at 11:00am in the canvas shop of Durrant Designs. Anybody here is welcome to come there and participate in any manner they see fit.
>
> Sorry Matti, I have no airfare money for reimbursement. I'll work on that though :-)
>
> Manufacturers, e-boat owners, enthusiasts.... just be open about your motivations for being there and it will be a productive time.
>
> Sorry for the sudden notice. Look up KKMI for location. Call or email me if you wish more context or information. I have nothing to sell, and am not asking for any money.
>
> Mark Stafford 925-586-0839cell
> mstafford at natca dot net
>

__._,_.___
.

__,_._,___

Re: [Electric Boats] Electric Catamaran

 

Off the cuff it sounds to me like you're dreaming.

The more experienced people can help out but just thinking it through in my head, keeping under a ton of batteries means something like a 40kW bank. 8 of those PVL-68s is only a 544 watt array. About 5.6kW to make 6 knots. So maybe 3 or 4 hours of 6 knots in good conditions. A cat with a lofty rig is going to have a huge amount of windage and will require an awful lot of power in bad conditions to keep making way. These are all off the cuff numbers from a newbie, so I'll defer to whoever else replies as to the numbers, I hope this is in the ballpark!

Electric: light, fast, and range don't really go together. Pick two of them perhaps? Well, maybe with lithium batteries, I was only speaking about lead-acid batteries above, but then we're getting into major bucks.

David

On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 5:08 PM, Bill Gow <billgow@gmail.com> wrote:
 

Hello Group!

 

I just joined today. The reason for my interest is finding help in planning out an electric alternative to conventional internal combustion engines on a catamaran I'm beginning to conceptualize.

 

The dimensions will be ~ LOA 36', Beam 22', Mast Height 60'. It will be a light, fast, demountable sailboat that will fit on a trailer ~ 8' wide for towing anywhere. I may consider going into production if this works as I plan. The first one will be used to do a lot of fishing in the Pacific Ocean from Mexico to Panama. Weight is critical! Reliable power is critical. The boat will have all the necessary systems to sustain 4 adults for extended voyages, maybe even an ocean crossing some day. 3 or 4 knots in calm waters is of no use to me. I have to be able to control my boat in high winds and surging ocean currents and troll or motor at above 6 knots for extended periods. I have a couple things most sailboats do not, twin hulls = less weight for a much larger usable space and a huge hard bimini top for solar (~13'X14'). I'd like to cover this bimini with something like the Uni-Solar (http://www.uni-solar.com) PVL-68 laminates. I figure I can get 8 of the them up there and they'll weigh less than 100 Lbs.

 

It looks like my bogey is battery weight. There is no way I'm adding a ton of lead to this boat! I can get great performance from a couple 20HP outboards that weigh less than 120 Lbs each. Is there any hope of electric propulsion or am I dreaming?


__._,_.___
.

__,_._,___

Re: [Electric Boats] Green boating near San Francisco

 

I will be very much interested in reading any summary of the meeting.  I am glued to any news from this group!


Mike Nixon

On Dec 4, 2009, at 10:36 PM, Mark wrote:

This is an open invite for an impromptu meeting in Richmond, CA about electric propulsion for 30' ish sailboats. Two people I ran into at KKMI boatyard need repowers, and are interested in the electric possibilities. My boat is there now, so I volunteered to meet them Monday, Dec 7th at 11:00am in the canvas shop of Durrant Designs. Anybody here is welcome to come there and participate in any manner they see fit.

Sorry Matti, I have no airfare money for reimbursement. I'll work on that though :-)

Manufacturers, e-boat owners, enthusiasts.... just be open about your motivations for being there and it will be a productive time.

Sorry for the sudden notice. Look up KKMI for location. Call or email me if you wish more context or information. I have nothing to sell, and am not asking for any money.

Mark Stafford 925-586-0839cell
mstafford at natca dot net


__._,_.___
.

__,_._,___

[Electric Boats] Electric Catamaran

 

Hello Group!

 

I just joined today. The reason for my interest is finding help in planning out an electric alternative to conventional internal combustion engines on a catamaran I'm beginning to conceptualize.

 

The dimensions will be ~ LOA 36', Beam 22', Mast Height 60'. It will be a light, fast, demountable sailboat that will fit on a trailer ~ 8' wide for towing anywhere. I may consider going into production if this works as I plan. The first one will be used to do a lot of fishing in the Pacific Ocean from Mexico to Panama. Weight is critical! Reliable power is critical. The boat will have all the necessary systems to sustain 4 adults for extended voyages, maybe even an ocean crossing some day. 3 or 4 knots in calm waters is of no use to me. I have to be able to control my boat in high winds and surging ocean currents and troll or motor at above 6 knots for extended periods. I have a couple things most sailboats do not, twin hulls = less weight for a much larger usable space and a huge hard bimini top for solar (~13'X14'). I'd like to cover this bimini with something like the Uni-Solar (http://www.uni-solar.com) PVL-68 laminates. I figure I can get 8 of the them up there and they'll weigh less than 100 Lbs.

 

It looks like my bogey is battery weight. There is no way I'm adding a ton of lead to this boat! I can get great performance from a couple 20HP outboards that weigh less than 120 Lbs each. Is there any hope of electric propulsion or am I dreaming?

__._,_.___
.

__,_._,___

Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Generator on ebay

 

The guy also has a 48v wind generator and 2 3000 epods with
controllers he is getting rid of.

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 5, 2009, at 9:51 AM, Peter Snowdon <petersnowdon@chello.at>
wrote:

> Just saw this on ebay if anybody is interested
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NextGen-Re-e-power-Diesel-GenSet-48v-90-amp-12v-starter_W0QQitemZ200412880862QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBoat_Parts_Accessories_Gear?hash=item2ea989dfde
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

__._,_.___
.

__,_._,___

[Electric Boats] Re: Generator on ebay

Just saw this on ebay if anybody is interested

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NextGen-Re-e-power-Diesel-GenSet-48v-90-amp-12v-starter_W0QQitemZ200412880862QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBoat_Parts_Accessories_Gear?hash=item2ea989dfde

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electricboats/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electricboats/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
electricboats-digest@yahoogroups.com
electricboats-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
electricboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/