T-Pain Is On A Boat: February 2024

Thursday, February 29, 2024

Re: [electricboats] long-tail boats

John, Great thought with a notion to "mount the motor with a belt drive to
the propeller shaft, so you can relatively cheaply adjust the "gear"
ratio to match the propeller for best efficiency and performance."

I look forward to reading more on this tread.

On Thu, Feb 29, 2024 at 2:59 AM John Kohnen <jkohnen@boat-links.com> wrote:

Where are you located, Mogjib? I assume you want to replace the gas
engine of an existing longtail setup with an electric motor, on a boat
type common in your locality. Many such boats are long, narrow and
canoe-like, and can be pushed very easily to decent speeds. Great
candidates for electric power. :o) As long as "decent speed" is fast
enough for you. <g> A friend of mine is planning to experiment with
electric power on a proa he built decades ago, though it will probably
end up with two outriggers and become more of a bangka...

As someone interested in the kinds of boats developed in different parts
of the world I'm looking forward to seeing the boat you want to convert,
and I'm sure interested in following your project.

My 2¢ worth of advice is to try to mount the motor with a belt drive to
the propeller shaft, so you can relatively cheaply adjust the "gear"
ratio to match the propeller for best efficiency and performance.
Mounting the electric motor directly to the propeller shaft, like the
gas motor, would be much simpler, but you'd have to try different
propellers until you find the one that works best. Though there are
calculations to help find a suitable propeller there still seems to be
some magic involved. ;o)

On 2/27/2024 10:20 PM, Mogjib Salek wrote:
> Hi Kev,
>
> How long would be a « short ride »? I need also a cost estimate! Any tip?
>
> Thank you all for your help!!
>
> On Wed 28 Feb 2024 at 01:13, Kev <captainyoung@gmail.com
> <mailto:captainyoung@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> If I understand correctly, you want to use the design of long tail
> boats like this, but you want to switch from a gas engine to an
> electric motor:
> https://www.mdpi.com/wevj/wevj-12-00036/article_deploy/html/images/wevj-12-00036-g001.png

--
John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole span of human
existence. They are full of dull, unintelligible tasks, new and
unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of common sense and common
decency. (H. L. Mencken)

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Wednesday, February 28, 2024

Re: [electricboats] long-tail boats

Where are you located, Mogjib? I assume you want to replace the gas
engine of an existing longtail setup with an electric motor, on a boat
type common in your locality. Many such boats are long, narrow and
canoe-like, and can be pushed very easily to decent speeds. Great
candidates for electric power. :o) As long as "decent speed" is fast
enough for you. <g> A friend of mine is planning to experiment with
electric power on a proa he built decades ago, though it will probably
end up with two outriggers and become more of a bangka...

As someone interested in the kinds of boats developed in different parts
of the world I'm looking forward to seeing the boat you want to convert,
and I'm sure interested in following your project.

My 2¢ worth of advice is to try to mount the motor with a belt drive to
the propeller shaft, so you can relatively cheaply adjust the "gear"
ratio to match the propeller for best efficiency and performance.
Mounting the electric motor directly to the propeller shaft, like the
gas motor, would be much simpler, but you'd have to try different
propellers until you find the one that works best. Though there are
calculations to help find a suitable propeller there still seems to be
some magic involved. ;o)

On 2/27/2024 10:20 PM, Mogjib Salek wrote:
> Hi Kev,
>
> How long would be a « short ride »? I need also a cost estimate! Any tip?
>
> Thank you all for your help!!
>
> On Wed 28 Feb 2024 at 01:13, Kev <captainyoung@gmail.com
> <mailto:captainyoung@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> If I understand correctly, you want to use the design of long tail
> boats like this, but you want to switch from a gas engine to an
> electric motor:
> https://www.mdpi.com/wevj/wevj-12-00036/article_deploy/html/images/wevj-12-00036-g001.png

--
John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole span of human
existence. They are full of dull, unintelligible tasks, new and
unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of common sense and common
decency. (H. L. Mencken)

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Re: [electricboats] long-tail boats

There are a lot of variables. Do you know how fast and how far you need it to go? This will determine your design.

If you want to go 4-5 knots for an hour or two, then a small electric outboard and small battery will work.

If you want to go 15-20 knots, then you are talking about a much bigger battery, which is most of the cost. This will also affect your boat design, due to the size and weight of the battery.

Any reason why you want to use a longtail design? The main benefit of longtails are they are good in shallow water, and can be beached.

This forum can definitely help, but I think you should let us know what your requirements are, and what body of water you are going to use it on. Do you have the boat already?

On Wed, Feb 28, 2024 at 1:20 AM Mogjib Salek <mogjibs@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Kev,

How long would be a « short ride »? I need also a cost estimate! Any tip?

Thank you all for your help!!

On Wed 28 Feb 2024 at 01:13, Kev <captainyoung@gmail.com> wrote:
If I understand correctly, you want to use the design of long tail boats like this, but you want to switch from a gas engine to an electric motor:
https://www.mdpi.com/wevj/wevj-12-00036/article_deploy/html/images/wevj-12-00036-g001.png

If you want the same performance, you want to go with around 1/3 the rated hp of the gas motor. So for example, if you had a 20 hp gas motor you would want to have around a 6 hp electric motor, which is about 5KW electric motor.
The problem you will have, is that you will need a very large battery bank, unless you are only going on short rides. It is possible though.

On Tue, Feb 27, 2024 at 4:39 PM Phil Boyer via groups.io <philaboyer=yahoo.ca@groups.io> wrote:

Hi,
Sounds like you have a sail boat and you need to have an extra long shaft to reach below the water. All motors are standard long shaft or short shaft. Or you can buy a pod type that mounts under your boat. You may need to design a mount that can extend down when you wish to motor. If you have a picture you could send I would have a better idea. Or post it on the Facebook page and ask for ideas.

Regards
Phil

On Tuesday, February 27, 2024 at 02:00:50 p.m. EST, mogjibs@gmail.com <mogjibs@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

I was wondering what would be the best electric motor for "long-tail boats" (in replacement for gasoline, diesel etc. motors; these are outboard motors altered to extend their propellers far from the rest of the motor)!

Thank you in advance for your comments, suggestions and tips.

Best,
M

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Tuesday, February 27, 2024

Re: [electricboats] long-tail boats

Hi Kev,

How long would be a « short ride »? I need also a cost estimate! Any tip?

Thank you all for your help!!

On Wed 28 Feb 2024 at 01:13, Kev <captainyoung@gmail.com> wrote:

If I understand correctly, you want to use the design of long tail boats like this, but you want to switch from a gas engine to an electric motor:
https://www.mdpi.com/wevj/wevj-12-00036/article_deploy/html/images/wevj-12-00036-g001.png

If you want the same performance, you want to go with around 1/3 the rated hp of the gas motor. So for example, if you had a 20 hp gas motor you would want to have around a 6 hp electric motor, which is about 5KW electric motor.
The problem you will have, is that you will need a very large battery bank, unless you are only going on short rides. It is possible though.

On Tue, Feb 27, 2024 at 4:39 PM Phil Boyer via groups.io <philaboyer=yahoo.ca@groups.io> wrote:

Hi,
Sounds like you have a sail boat and you need to have an extra long shaft to reach below the water. All motors are standard long shaft or short shaft. Or you can buy a pod type that mounts under your boat. You may need to design a mount that can extend down when you wish to motor. If you have a picture you could send I would have a better idea. Or post it on the Facebook page and ask for ideas.

Regards
Phil

On Tuesday, February 27, 2024 at 02:00:50 p.m. EST, mogjibs@gmail.com <mogjibs@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

I was wondering what would be the best electric motor for "long-tail boats" (in replacement for gasoline, diesel etc. motors; these are outboard motors altered to extend their propellers far from the rest of the motor)!

Thank you in advance for your comments, suggestions and tips.

Best,
M

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Re: [electricboats] long-tail boats

If I understand correctly, you want to use the design of long tail boats like this, but you want to switch from a gas engine to an electric motor:

https://www.mdpi.com/wevj/wevj-12-00036/article_deploy/html/images/wevj-12-00036-g001.png

If you want the same performance, you want to go with around 1/3 the rated hp of the gas motor. So for example, if you had a 20 hp gas motor you would want to have around a 6 hp electric motor, which is about 5KW electric motor.

The problem you will have, is that you will need a very large battery bank, unless you are only going on short rides. It is possible though.

On Tue, Feb 27, 2024 at 4:39 PM Phil Boyer via groups.io <philaboyer=yahoo.ca@groups.io> wrote:

Hi,
Sounds like you have a sail boat and you need to have an extra long shaft to reach below the water. All motors are standard long shaft or short shaft. Or you can buy a pod type that mounts under your boat. You may need to design a mount that can extend down when you wish to motor. If you have a picture you could send I would have a better idea. Or post it on the Facebook page and ask for ideas.

Regards
Phil

On Tuesday, February 27, 2024 at 02:00:50 p.m. EST, mogjibs@gmail.com <mogjibs@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

I was wondering what would be the best electric motor for "long-tail boats" (in replacement for gasoline, diesel etc. motors; these are outboard motors altered to extend their propellers far from the rest of the motor)!

Thank you in advance for your comments, suggestions and tips.

Best,
M

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_._,_._,_

Re: [electricboats] long-tail boats

Hi,
Sounds like you have a sail boat and you need to have an extra long shaft to reach below the water. All motors are standard long shaft or short shaft. Or you can buy a pod type that mounts under your boat. You may need to design a mount that can extend down when you wish to motor. If you have a picture you could send I would have a better idea. Or post it on the Facebook page and ask for ideas.

Regards

Phil

On Tuesday, February 27, 2024 at 02:00:50 p.m. EST, mogjibs@gmail.com <mogjibs@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

I was wondering what would be the best electric motor for "long-tail boats" (in replacement for gasoline, diesel etc. motors; these are outboard motors altered to extend their propellers far from the rest of the motor)!

Thank you in advance for your comments, suggestions and tips.

Best,
M

Re: [electricboats] long-tail boats

If it doesn't need to be lifted out of the water permanently mounted a pod is the best solution. Even if it does does need to be lifted out a pod may still be the best solution can be attached to a jack/tilt plate and the shaft length is easily configurable.

Matt Foley

Sunlight Conversions

1-201-914-0466

sunlightconversions.com

instagram.com/sunlightconversions/

youtube/sunlightconversions

ABYC Certified Marine

Electrical Technician

On Feb 27, 2024, at 2:00 PM, mogjibs@gmail.com wrote:

Hi,

I was wondering what would be the best electric motor for "long-tail boats" (in replacement for gasoline, diesel etc. motors; these are outboard motors altered to extend their propellers far from the rest of the motor)!

Thank you in advance for your comments, suggestions and tips.

Best,
M

[electricboats] long-tail boats

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Thursday, February 22, 2024

Re: [electricboats] Floating PV Hazard Potential?

This is only to charge batteries on a 19-foot, open, day-sailing type
sailboat. Mounting options for solar panels are limited and the possible
ones detract from the boat's form and function. This just becomes a
solar shore power in a sense. I do not want to wire the boat for typical
shore power chargers. This is in freshwater - no problems in use other
than the curious critters. Saltwater certainly could pose problems, but
maybe not a deal breaker.

There are large arrays in use and many more under development - mostly
in far east. Not much that I can find for small-scale. Here is MTU project:

https://www.pv-magazine.com/2020/11/09/open-source-method-to-build-flexible-floating-pv-systems/

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Re: [electricboats] Floating PV Hazard Potential?

Is this a test for using solar panels on floats to charge boats, or are you experimenting for large scale usage? Sorry I missed your original post.

For a boat, I would think it would be much better to put it on deck, or attach it via a mount to the dock. Having it close to the water would seem to cause many issues. Water, especially salt water is very corrosive, damage from flotsam or boat hitting it, having to move it in and out of the way, shading... I just don't see the benefit of floating it in the water.

Can you link to the Michigan Tech article?

Good luck

On Wed, Feb 21, 2024 at 2:33 PM Walter Pearson <pearson1854@comcast.net> wrote:

I expect it only a remote possibility, but if anyone has interest in DIY-level floatovoltaics, I will report after two seasons of experience with my battery charging system. To review: This is a 100-watt semi-flexible panel bonded to an exercise mat that floats next to my sailboat while in its marina slip. Control is via Victron Energy MPPT 75/15 Solar Controller to 2X100Ah AGMs. The solar panel is partially shaded by the floating pier in early morning. Latitude DD is 46.677 N.

The components have held up well and the batteries continue to be charged to float level – at least whenever I have observed the status later in the day. There is no evidence so far for any delamination or degradation of the panel. There is also no evidence of stray electrical potential. The closed-cell foam pad has proved surprisingly durable and even seems to have some resistance to algae deposits and cleans off at season's end better than most things left submerged. The charging duty decreased during the second season because I no longer use the AGMs for propulsion. It becomes overkill for house needs, but the weight is equal to the lead ingot ballast that was removed, so they will stay for now.

Occasionally there can be flotsam that settles on top – as cpcanoesailor warned – but a good rain or a bit of hosing solves that easily. The main problems I faced were missed in the advice from this group. The floating panel just proved irresistible to critters. In the first season, a mallard gave a new meaning for poop deck. This duck was quite persistent and possessive. It paid little attention to the dogs on the dock or interested onlookers. Scaring it off with the hose was only a brief interruption to its sunning and defecating activities. Amazingly, even with a large deposit of duck poop, the panel kept producing.

For the second season, I fashioned a protective cover of bird netting. This successfully kept the ducks off, but late in the season, a (suspected) otter got curious and broke through the netting. I do not know whether it was the same otter or not, but I also found the rope that tethered the panel to the pier cleat to be severed on two occasions. This year, there will be new bird netting and a cut-resistant line.

I have queried the journalist who covered some of the efforts of students at Michigan Tech and the university to find out whether they ever progressed to field tests for their floating system. In the article, the students were performing tests in a swimming pool. I was curious about successful deterrents if my critter condition is common. No reply received. I would imagine this critter invasion could be a serious drawback to small or large arrays.

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Wednesday, February 21, 2024

Re: [electricboats] Floating PV Hazard Potential?

I expect it only a remote possibility, but if anyone has interest in DIY-level floatovoltaics, I will report after two seasons of experience with my battery charging system. To review: This is a 100-watt semi-flexible panel bonded to an exercise mat that floats next to my sailboat while in its marina slip. Control is via Victron Energy MPPT 75/15 Solar Controller to 2X100Ah AGMs. The solar panel is partially shaded by the floating pier in early morning. Latitude DD is 46.677 N.

The components have held up well and the batteries continue to be charged to float level – at least whenever I have observed the status later in the day. There is no evidence so far for any delamination or degradation of the panel. There is also no evidence of stray electrical potential. The closed-cell foam pad has proved surprisingly durable and even seems to have some resistance to algae deposits and cleans off at season's end better than most things left submerged. The charging duty decreased during the second season because I no longer use the AGMs for propulsion. It becomes overkill for house needs, but the weight is equal to the lead ingot ballast that was removed, so they will stay for now.

Occasionally there can be flotsam that settles on top – as cpcanoesailor warned – but a good rain or a bit of hosing solves that easily. The main problems I faced were missed in the advice from this group. The floating panel just proved irresistible to critters. In the first season, a mallard gave a new meaning for poop deck. This duck was quite persistent and possessive. It paid little attention to the dogs on the dock or interested onlookers. Scaring it off with the hose was only a brief interruption to its sunning and defecating activities. Amazingly, even with a large deposit of duck poop, the panel kept producing.

For the second season, I fashioned a protective cover of bird netting. This successfully kept the ducks off, but late in the season, a (suspected) otter got curious and broke through the netting. I do not know whether it was the same otter or not, but I also found the rope that tethered the panel to the pier cleat to be severed on two occasions. This year, there will be new bird netting and a cut-resistant line.

I have queried the journalist who covered some of the efforts of students at Michigan Tech and the university to find out whether they ever progressed to field tests for their floating system. In the article, the students were performing tests in a swimming pool. I was curious about successful deterrents if my critter condition is common. No reply received. I would imagine this critter invasion could be a serious drawback to small or large arrays.

Thursday, February 1, 2024

Re: [electricboats] Recommendation for Charging 12v House Battery from 48v Bank

Unlikely with MPPT since they typically require an input voltage 5-8V more than the battery charge voltage. Both your lithium and AGM are 48V.

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Re: [electricboats] Recommendation for Charging 12v House Battery from 48v Bank

This is interesting. So would this work?

I have a Lithium 100 amphr 48volt bank to run motor and a 48vlt 160amphr agm set which was original bank used for testing.

Can I use an 48 volt victron mppt controller to connect to the lithium set from an input from the Agm bank to help maintain the lithium or is there a better way to use the agm set?

The agm gets charged from a 48volt battery charger and soon a 48vlt 320w solar panel array.i can just ditch the agm but if i can use the extra capacity then this would be useful .....as long as I don't trash the lithium battery

Any help or ideas appreciated as always

Richard

On Wed, 31 Jan 2024, 08:04 Don & Ginny Workman, <tubadon@gmail.com> wrote:

On Jan 29, 2024, at 3:27 PM, Stew <stewart.reed@free.fr> wrote:

Makes total sense. Really helpful post, thanks. I currently run my 12V off the 48V bank but your solution ring-fences the 48V for motor energy. I think I'll do the same.
Stewart
+33 6 87 96 66 80

On 29 Jan 2024, at 17:43, Fabien Letourneau <fabien.letourneau@gmail.com> wrote:

I have a 48V battery bank and a 12V house. Been running this setup for 4 years now and no issues.
I use an MPPT (Victron SmartSolar 100/20). Connect your 48V battery to the MPPT PV input. The MPPT sees your 48V or 52V bank as solar and it outputs proper charging voltage for your battery type. You can set charge voltages, and all the charging parameters. MPPT's are designed to do exactly that, so much better than a converter. Chances are you already have a Victron unit for your solar arrays, if so you can use the same Victron Connect app to read the house battery unit as well.

Additional tip. I charge the 48V bank at the dock (shore power) as well as solar when cruising (using another MPPT). To prevent our 12V loads discharging our 48V bank when at sea or dock and end up without a motor, we use a switch to the victron unit remote connector. This is not very well documented or understood, but the VE. Direct connector can be used to turn the unit on or off without requiring the VE.Direct cable or unit. Connect Pin 2 to GND will switch the MPPT charger off. Switch that connection to open and the unit starts charging.

Keep in mind that the 48V whether connected through a DC-DC or MPPT, the 12V battery is being maintained all the time from your 48V hence draining your 48V bank, unless you have a 12V disconnect or a charger disconnect.

In my case, at the dock, a relay opens when we have shore power, and allows the MPPT to charge the house battery. When shore power is removed (when at sea), the relay closes and the MPPT for our 2V house is off. We use minimal 12v loads and monitor the house battery level. I also installed a bypass switch that I can manually through open if needed (after confirming sufficient reserve in the 48V bank). So at sea, if the 12V is starting to get low, we flip the switch and the MPPT starts charging our house battery from our 48V. Very nice and peace of mind, no worries about the house loads draining our 48V bank while sleeping, anchor light staying on, etc..

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T-Pain Is On A Boat

Thursday, February 29, 2024

Re: [electricboats] long-tail boats

Wednesday, February 28, 2024

Re: [electricboats] long-tail boats

Re: [electricboats] long-tail boats

Tuesday, February 27, 2024

Re: [electricboats] long-tail boats

Re: [electricboats] long-tail boats

Re: [electricboats] long-tail boats

Re: [electricboats] long-tail boats

[electricboats] long-tail boats

Thursday, February 22, 2024

Re: [electricboats] Floating PV Hazard Potential?

Re: [electricboats] Floating PV Hazard Potential?

Wednesday, February 21, 2024

Re: [electricboats] Floating PV Hazard Potential?

Thursday, February 1, 2024

Re: [electricboats] Recommendation for Charging 12v House Battery from 48v Bank

Re: [electricboats] Recommendation for Charging 12v House Battery from 48v Bank

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