T-Pain Is On A Boat: June 2023

Thursday, June 29, 2023

Re: [electricboats] My Solar/Electric Catamaran

Interesting. So if I took off the rudder and added a fairing, the fairing could act like a rudder?

Yes, I think it would, depending on the surface area.

Wednesday, June 28, 2023

Re: [electricboats] My Solar/Electric Catamaran

Interesting. So if I took off the rudder and added a fairing, the fairing could act like a rudder?

Andy

On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 11:31:33 AM EDT, cpcanoesailor via groups.io <cpcanoesailor=yahoo.ca@groups.io> wrote:

Lookin' good.

I found that adding a plastic fairing around the motor's shaft greatly reduces the drag at higher speeds, so you get a higher top speed with the same motor and prop. Streamline Fairings (uflyit.com)

Streamline Fairings

I have a small trimaran, and the motor itself seems to cause more drag than the hulls. Your cat hulls are probably similar.

Curtis

Re: [electricboats] My Solar/Electric Catamaran

Lookin' good.

I found that adding a plastic fairing around the motor's shaft greatly reduces the drag at higher speeds, so you get a higher top speed with the same motor and prop. Streamline Fairings (uflyit.com)

Streamline Fairings

I have a small trimaran, and the motor itself seems to cause more drag than the hulls. Your cat hulls are probably similar.

Curtis

Tuesday, June 27, 2023

[electricboats] My Solar/Electric Catamaran

[Edited Message Follows]

I've been working on this project for a couple years and it's been 3 steps forward and 2 steps back but I'm getting close.
I made a video that shows my work, I hope you like it.
https://youtu.be/9-Vj_KaCn6Q

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[electricboats] My Solar/Electric Catamaran

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Monday, June 19, 2023

Re: [electricboats] New Foiling Electric Watercraft #wiki-notice #electricpropulsion

Thanks Kev!
It is fun and getting better and better as we test changes and make improvements.

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Saturday, June 10, 2023

Re: [electricboats] New Foiling Electric Watercraft #wiki-notice #electricpropulsion

Very cool, looks fun!

On Sat, Jun 10, 2023 at 2:39 PM Jamie Schlinkmann <jamie.schlinkmann@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Electrified Marine Enthusiasts!
I have been following threads here for several years, and being an engineer, entrepreneur, and boater, I have long wanted to do some disrupting in this area. This project started for me with the development of a Li battery system intended as a generator replacement in boats that use a lot of energy for things like AC, refrigeration, stabilization, etc. Well it morphed into something very different as you can see in this video:

https://youtu.be/T6xA_mODjR0

This might not be something for everyone here to relate to, but I promise products are in the pipeline that more will.
Thanks for listening!
Jamie

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[electricboats] New Foiling Electric Watercraft #wiki-notice #electricpropulsion

Hi Electrified Marine Enthusiasts!
I have been following threads here for several years, and being an engineer, entrepreneur, and boater, I have long wanted to do some disrupting in this area. This project started for me with the development of a Li battery system intended as a generator replacement in boats that use a lot of energy for things like AC, refrigeration, stabilization, etc. Well it morphed into something very different as you can see in this video:

https://youtu.be/T6xA_mODjR0

This might not be something for everyone here to relate to, but I promise products are in the pipeline that more will.
Thanks for listening!
Jamie

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Tuesday, June 6, 2023

Re: [electricboats] Connectors question for electric outboard

I use a 20Ah, 48V eBike battery and custom built electric outboard to push my 23' sailboat around (a 2500lb keelboat) and use Anderson connectors. You can also get rubber 'boots' for the connectors to help protect them (I use these and can recommend them).

SB50 Environmental Boot with Cover, Source Side | Powerwerx

SB50 Environmental Boot with Cover, Load Side | Powerwerx

I have also tried a Hangkai with my boat and it worked well, though the throttle was awful (very sensitive). I cobbled a fix, but beware.

On Fri, Jun 2, 2023 at 11:24 AM bobkart <couch45@msn.com> wrote:

You can also get SB50 / PP75 contacts that support 6AWG, 8AWG, or 10AWG without a bushing:

https://powerwerx.com/anderson-pp75-sb50-loose-piece-contact

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Monday, June 5, 2023

Re: [electricboats] Recommendation for 48 v inboard motor + generator.

Hello Rob,

I went the easier (but more expensive route) of buying a DC genset (I settled on a Fischer Panda AGT 18000 --> 18KVA). I am running at 96VDC, and that was a 5% premium on top of their 48VDC catalog price.

The larger price tag compared to an equivalent power AC genset makes sense to me, as the rectifier box is an additional piece of equipment provided in the system. The rectifier diodes are water cooled (connected to the sea water circuit of the generator). If you were to go this path, you need to account for the space requirement for the rectifier box, and how you will route not only the electric wire, but the water cooling circuit.

As you described, running the output of an AC generator to a DC charger is not practical for 10kW+, due to the lack of battery charger designed for that much power.

The advantage of the DC genset I see is that the output of the generator feeding the rectifier box is 3 phases AC. That means that the output of the rectifier box is a quite stable voltage. If you were to rectify a single phase AC, your DC voltage would drop to 0V around 120 times per second, so the current would do the same (when the rectified DC voltage is less than the battery voltage, no current flows from the generator to the battery or to the load).

Regarding your question on the ME1616 motor, it is not a DC motor. The ME1616 is a 3 phase AC motor. In traction mode, we use a motor controller that we feed DC to, and the controller creates the 3 phase AC to drive the motor at the RPM specified to the controller.

Cheers,

Jerome

On Thu, Jun 1, 2023 at 5:01 PM Robert McArthur <rjmcarthur@gmail.com> wrote:

Dan (and anyone else who wants to explain!),
Delving back a little...

On Fri, 24 Mar 2023, 3:03 am Dan Pfeiffer, <dan@pfeiffer.net> wrote:

I got a 2nd 12kW motor to use as a generator with a 3cyl Kubota diesel I have (18hp) but have not built the genset yet. The diesel is very compact and I figured I could get a 10-12kW 48VDC generator from the combo. After 2 seasons of use I think a smaller genset would do fine. Maybe 5-6kW. I could motor at decent cruising speed with that. Your use may be different. Genset info:
http://dan.pfeiffer.net/10m/diesel_genset.htm

I just got a quote from one of the few marine DC genset places, and unfortunately it matches what I could find from the others - a new 16kW continuous 48V DC genset is about AU$28,000 or US$18,500. Not installed. Ouch!!

I see above Dan you thought about getting around it with a self-marinised bobtail, connected to a ME1616.
I'm thinking of similar, but perhaps an already marinised Beta 20 connected to the ME1616 (another of which will be propulsion) since I am not particularly mechanically minded to self marinise.

Could you explain to a layman why, if using the ME1616, you would need rectifier or regulator? I thought the ME1616 already put out 48V DC (I presumed an actual 54V or so) with controller. Or would you replace the usual Thunderstruck kit controller with the rectifier and reg for the genset?

Since a brand new marinised kubota (Beta 20) could be less than US$8000, and the ME1616 is about US$1500, it looks about half the cost of buying a named brand 48V DC marine genset! Thoughts?

Another option for marinised is a Yanmar 3YM20. Neither though are a perfect rpm match for the ME1616 which is only (!) 12kW. But if I can spend US$10,000 for 12kW vs $18,500 for 16Kw then it seems a big win.

Rob

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Sunday, June 4, 2023

Re: [electricboats] Recommendation for 48 v inboard motor + generator.

Hughes 35.5 ft sailboat. Ran several days, anchored at night. Had volt meter continually monitoring. Slowed down when volts reduced, sped up when volts went up. Everything settled at 4.8 knots speed.

On Sun, Jun 4, 2023, 7:21 PM Dan Pfeiffer <dan@pfeiffer.net> wrote:

Are you saying you can hold 4.8 knots at 2200 watts (2000+200)? What are the boat specs? Have you measured actual output from generator and solar?

On 2023-06-04 5:28 pm, reesekc wrote:

I'm presently using a 2kw generator (Harbor Freight) and a 48vdc golf cart charger. Also have 200 watts of solar power (12vdc in series for 24vdc with a boost controller to 48vdc). All of that is pretty cheep. But I can hold 4.8 knots all day long with the sun shining.

On Sun, Jun 4, 2023, 6:03 PM Dan Pfeiffer <dan@pfeiffer.net> wrote:

Is this a commercially available unit or something you put together? That is a reasonable power output for continuous cruise on about a 10,000 lb monohull I think.

On 2023-06-01 11:23 am, jeremy baker via groups.io wrote:

I have a 4.5Kw, 48 volt, alternator powered by a 8hp propane fueled engine. But no boat yet. Sigh

On Thursday, June 1, 2023, 10:17 AM, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@pfeiffer.net> wrote:

I have not built the genset yet. It was suggested to me by one of the engineers at Thunderstruck that I could do it with the ME1616 with a rectifier and regulator. But I have not researched it any further.

I have a 3cyl 12kW Kubota diesel that was a removal from a new excavator converted to all electric. It is not a marinized engine and I will need to sort that out but it doesn't seem too difficult. Mostly to do with the heat exchanger and associated pumps and plumbing. I may also need a belt drive to better match RPM's to get the desired output. Direct drive would be preferred and the ME1616 is rated at 38.46 rpm/v so that's is in the ball park (57.2V @ 2200rpm). Have to consider voltage drop through rectifier stages to get proper charging voltage input to regulator? More research needed...

BUT, after running my electric drive for two seasons I don't know that I need such a large genset (10kW). I could probably do with 5 or 6kW rather that 10. See my reasoning here:
http://dan.pfeiffer.net/10m/diesel_genset.htm

Perhaps as a general rule of thumb the genset capacity needed for reasonable continuous cruise at 75 to 85% of hull speed (for a monohull) you can do with 65 to 75% of the motor kW capacity needed to get to hull speed. So if you need 10kW to get to hull speed that would be 5.5 to 6.5 kW gen set for reasonable continuous cruise. By continuous cruise I mean maintaining desired speed without drawing down batteries. For me that's 5.5 to 6 knots cruise. From my observations I can do that at about 5kW. But I always want to consider having sufficient headroom that I am not running any of the components at 100% to get the desired performance. That gets me to 6 or 7kW genset? But 5kW would get me at a comfortable continuous cruise at 5 to 5.5 knots with headroom.
http://dan.pfeiffer.net/10m/electric_drive_performance.htm

My boat is a 12,500lb monohull with a 28.3ft waterline.
My boat is a 5,700 kg monohull with a 8.6m waterline.

More details on my electric drive conversion here:
http://dan.pfeiffer.net/10m/electric_drive.htm

Dan Pfeiffer

On 2023-06-01 10:01 am, Robert McArthur wrote:

Dan (and anyone else who wants to explain!),
Delving back a little...

On Fri, 24 Mar 2023, 3:03 am Dan Pfeiffer, <dan@pfeiffer.net> wrote:

I got a 2nd 12kW motor to use as a generator with a 3cyl Kubota diesel I have (18hp) but have not built the genset yet. The diesel is very compact and I figured I could get a 10-12kW 48VDC generator from the combo. After 2 seasons of use I think a smaller genset would do fine. Maybe 5-6kW. I could motor at decent cruising speed with that. Your use may be different. Genset info:
http://dan.pfeiffer.net/10m/diesel_genset.htm

I just got a quote from one of the few marine DC genset places, and unfortunately it matches what I could find from the others - a new 16kW continuous 48V DC genset is about AU$28,000 or US$18,500. Not installed. Ouch!!

I see above Dan you thought about getting around it with a self-marinised bobtail, connected to a ME1616.

I'm thinking of similar, but perhaps an already marinised Beta 20 connected to the ME1616 (another of which will be propulsion) since I am not particularly mechanically minded to self marinise.

Could you explain to a layman why, if using the ME1616, you would need rectifier or regulator? I thought the ME1616 already put out 48V DC (I presumed an actual 54V or so) with controller. Or would you replace the usual Thunderstruck kit controller with the rectifier and reg for the genset?

Since a brand new marinised kubota (Beta 20) could be less than US$8000, and the ME1616 is about US$1500, it looks about half the cost of buying a named brand 48V DC marine genset! Thoughts?

Another option for marinised is a Yanmar 3YM20. Neither though are a perfect rpm match for the ME1616 which is only (!) 12kW. But if I can spend US$10,000 for 12kW vs $18,500 for 16Kw then it seems a big win.

Rob

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Re: [electricboats] Recommendation for 48 v inboard motor + generator.

Are you saying you can hold 4.8 knots at 2200 watts (2000+200)? What are the boat specs? Have you measured actual output from generator and solar?

On 2023-06-04 5:28 pm, reesekc wrote:

I'm presently using a 2kw generator (Harbor Freight) and a 48vdc golf cart charger. Also have 200 watts of solar power (12vdc in series for 24vdc with a boost controller to 48vdc). All of that is pretty cheep. But I can hold 4.8 knots all day long with the sun shining.

On Sun, Jun 4, 2023, 6:03 PM Dan Pfeiffer <dan@pfeiffer.net> wrote:

Is this a commercially available unit or something you put together? That is a reasonable power output for continuous cruise on about a 10,000 lb monohull I think.

On 2023-06-01 11:23 am, jeremy baker via groups.io wrote:

I have a 4.5Kw, 48 volt, alternator powered by a 8hp propane fueled engine. But no boat yet. Sigh

On Thursday, June 1, 2023, 10:17 AM, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@pfeiffer.net> wrote:

I have not built the genset yet. It was suggested to me by one of the engineers at Thunderstruck that I could do it with the ME1616 with a rectifier and regulator. But I have not researched it any further.

I have a 3cyl 12kW Kubota diesel that was a removal from a new excavator converted to all electric. It is not a marinized engine and I will need to sort that out but it doesn't seem too difficult. Mostly to do with the heat exchanger and associated pumps and plumbing. I may also need a belt drive to better match RPM's to get the desired output. Direct drive would be preferred and the ME1616 is rated at 38.46 rpm/v so that's is in the ball park (57.2V @ 2200rpm). Have to consider voltage drop through rectifier stages to get proper charging voltage input to regulator? More research needed...

BUT, after running my electric drive for two seasons I don't know that I need such a large genset (10kW). I could probably do with 5 or 6kW rather that 10. See my reasoning here:
http://dan.pfeiffer.net/10m/diesel_genset.htm

Perhaps as a general rule of thumb the genset capacity needed for reasonable continuous cruise at 75 to 85% of hull speed (for a monohull) you can do with 65 to 75% of the motor kW capacity needed to get to hull speed. So if you need 10kW to get to hull speed that would be 5.5 to 6.5 kW gen set for reasonable continuous cruise. By continuous cruise I mean maintaining desired speed without drawing down batteries. For me that's 5.5 to 6 knots cruise. From my observations I can do that at about 5kW. But I always want to consider having sufficient headroom that I am not running any of the components at 100% to get the desired performance. That gets me to 6 or 7kW genset? But 5kW would get me at a comfortable continuous cruise at 5 to 5.5 knots with headroom.
http://dan.pfeiffer.net/10m/electric_drive_performance.htm

My boat is a 12,500lb monohull with a 28.3ft waterline.
My boat is a 5,700 kg monohull with a 8.6m waterline.

More details on my electric drive conversion here:
http://dan.pfeiffer.net/10m/electric_drive.htm

Dan Pfeiffer

On 2023-06-01 10:01 am, Robert McArthur wrote:

Dan (and anyone else who wants to explain!),
Delving back a little...

On Fri, 24 Mar 2023, 3:03 am Dan Pfeiffer, <dan@pfeiffer.net> wrote:

I got a 2nd 12kW motor to use as a generator with a 3cyl Kubota diesel I have (18hp) but have not built the genset yet. The diesel is very compact and I figured I could get a 10-12kW 48VDC generator from the combo. After 2 seasons of use I think a smaller genset would do fine. Maybe 5-6kW. I could motor at decent cruising speed with that. Your use may be different. Genset info:
http://dan.pfeiffer.net/10m/diesel_genset.htm

I just got a quote from one of the few marine DC genset places, and unfortunately it matches what I could find from the others - a new 16kW continuous 48V DC genset is about AU$28,000 or US$18,500. Not installed. Ouch!!

I see above Dan you thought about getting around it with a self-marinised bobtail, connected to a ME1616.

I'm thinking of similar, but perhaps an already marinised Beta 20 connected to the ME1616 (another of which will be propulsion) since I am not particularly mechanically minded to self marinise.

Could you explain to a layman why, if using the ME1616, you would need rectifier or regulator? I thought the ME1616 already put out 48V DC (I presumed an actual 54V or so) with controller. Or would you replace the usual Thunderstruck kit controller with the rectifier and reg for the genset?

Since a brand new marinised kubota (Beta 20) could be less than US$8000, and the ME1616 is about US$1500, it looks about half the cost of buying a named brand 48V DC marine genset! Thoughts?

Another option for marinised is a Yanmar 3YM20. Neither though are a perfect rpm match for the ME1616 which is only (!) 12kW. But if I can spend US$10,000 for 12kW vs $18,500 for 16Kw then it seems a big win.

Rob

Re: [electricboats] Recommendation for 48 v inboard motor + generator.

I'm presently using a 2kw generator (Harbor Freight) and a 48vdc golf cart charger. Also have 200 watts of solar power (12vdc in series for 24vdc with a boost controller to 48vdc). All of that is pretty cheep. But I can hold 4.8 knots all day long with the sun shining.

On Sun, Jun 4, 2023, 6:03 PM Dan Pfeiffer <dan@pfeiffer.net> wrote:

Is this a commercially available unit or something you put together? That is a reasonable power output for continuous cruise on about a 10,000 lb monohull I think.

On 2023-06-01 11:23 am, jeremy baker via groups.io wrote:

I have a 4.5Kw, 48 volt, alternator powered by a 8hp propane fueled engine. But no boat yet. Sigh

On Thursday, June 1, 2023, 10:17 AM, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@pfeiffer.net> wrote:

I have not built the genset yet. It was suggested to me by one of the engineers at Thunderstruck that I could do it with the ME1616 with a rectifier and regulator. But I have not researched it any further.

I have a 3cyl 12kW Kubota diesel that was a removal from a new excavator converted to all electric. It is not a marinized engine and I will need to sort that out but it doesn't seem too difficult. Mostly to do with the heat exchanger and associated pumps and plumbing. I may also need a belt drive to better match RPM's to get the desired output. Direct drive would be preferred and the ME1616 is rated at 38.46 rpm/v so that's is in the ball park (57.2V @ 2200rpm). Have to consider voltage drop through rectifier stages to get proper charging voltage input to regulator? More research needed...

BUT, after running my electric drive for two seasons I don't know that I need such a large genset (10kW). I could probably do with 5 or 6kW rather that 10. See my reasoning here:
http://dan.pfeiffer.net/10m/diesel_genset.htm

Perhaps as a general rule of thumb the genset capacity needed for reasonable continuous cruise at 75 to 85% of hull speed (for a monohull) you can do with 65 to 75% of the motor kW capacity needed to get to hull speed. So if you need 10kW to get to hull speed that would be 5.5 to 6.5 kW gen set for reasonable continuous cruise. By continuous cruise I mean maintaining desired speed without drawing down batteries. For me that's 5.5 to 6 knots cruise. From my observations I can do that at about 5kW. But I always want to consider having sufficient headroom that I am not running any of the components at 100% to get the desired performance. That gets me to 6 or 7kW genset? But 5kW would get me at a comfortable continuous cruise at 5 to 5.5 knots with headroom.
http://dan.pfeiffer.net/10m/electric_drive_performance.htm

My boat is a 12,500lb monohull with a 28.3ft waterline.
My boat is a 5,700 kg monohull with a 8.6m waterline.

More details on my electric drive conversion here:
http://dan.pfeiffer.net/10m/electric_drive.htm

Dan Pfeiffer

On 2023-06-01 10:01 am, Robert McArthur wrote:

Dan (and anyone else who wants to explain!),
Delving back a little...

On Fri, 24 Mar 2023, 3:03 am Dan Pfeiffer, <dan@pfeiffer.net> wrote:

I got a 2nd 12kW motor to use as a generator with a 3cyl Kubota diesel I have (18hp) but have not built the genset yet. The diesel is very compact and I figured I could get a 10-12kW 48VDC generator from the combo. After 2 seasons of use I think a smaller genset would do fine. Maybe 5-6kW. I could motor at decent cruising speed with that. Your use may be different. Genset info:
http://dan.pfeiffer.net/10m/diesel_genset.htm

I just got a quote from one of the few marine DC genset places, and unfortunately it matches what I could find from the others - a new 16kW continuous 48V DC genset is about AU$28,000 or US$18,500. Not installed. Ouch!!

I see above Dan you thought about getting around it with a self-marinised bobtail, connected to a ME1616.

I'm thinking of similar, but perhaps an already marinised Beta 20 connected to the ME1616 (another of which will be propulsion) since I am not particularly mechanically minded to self marinise.

Could you explain to a layman why, if using the ME1616, you would need rectifier or regulator? I thought the ME1616 already put out 48V DC (I presumed an actual 54V or so) with controller. Or would you replace the usual Thunderstruck kit controller with the rectifier and reg for the genset?

Since a brand new marinised kubota (Beta 20) could be less than US$8000, and the ME1616 is about US$1500, it looks about half the cost of buying a named brand 48V DC marine genset! Thoughts?

Another option for marinised is a Yanmar 3YM20. Neither though are a perfect rpm match for the ME1616 which is only (!) 12kW. But if I can spend US$10,000 for 12kW vs $18,500 for 16Kw then it seems a big win.

Rob

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Re: [electricboats] Recommendation for 48 v inboard motor + generator.

Is this a commercially available unit or something you put together? That is a reasonable power output for continuous cruise on about a 10,000 lb monohull I think.

On 2023-06-01 11:23 am, jeremy baker via groups.io wrote:

I have a 4.5Kw, 48 volt, alternator powered by a 8hp propane fueled engine. But no boat yet. Sigh

On Thursday, June 1, 2023, 10:17 AM, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@pfeiffer.net> wrote:

I have not built the genset yet. It was suggested to me by one of the engineers at Thunderstruck that I could do it with the ME1616 with a rectifier and regulator. But I have not researched it any further.

I have a 3cyl 12kW Kubota diesel that was a removal from a new excavator converted to all electric. It is not a marinized engine and I will need to sort that out but it doesn't seem too difficult. Mostly to do with the heat exchanger and associated pumps and plumbing. I may also need a belt drive to better match RPM's to get the desired output. Direct drive would be preferred and the ME1616 is rated at 38.46 rpm/v so that's is in the ball park (57.2V @ 2200rpm). Have to consider voltage drop through rectifier stages to get proper charging voltage input to regulator? More research needed...

BUT, after running my electric drive for two seasons I don't know that I need such a large genset (10kW). I could probably do with 5 or 6kW rather that 10. See my reasoning here:
http://dan.pfeiffer.net/10m/diesel_genset.htm

Perhaps as a general rule of thumb the genset capacity needed for reasonable continuous cruise at 75 to 85% of hull speed (for a monohull) you can do with 65 to 75% of the motor kW capacity needed to get to hull speed. So if you need 10kW to get to hull speed that would be 5.5 to 6.5 kW gen set for reasonable continuous cruise. By continuous cruise I mean maintaining desired speed without drawing down batteries. For me that's 5.5 to 6 knots cruise. From my observations I can do that at about 5kW. But I always want to consider having sufficient headroom that I am not running any of the components at 100% to get the desired performance. That gets me to 6 or 7kW genset? But 5kW would get me at a comfortable continuous cruise at 5 to 5.5 knots with headroom.
http://dan.pfeiffer.net/10m/electric_drive_performance.htm

My boat is a 12,500lb monohull with a 28.3ft waterline.
My boat is a 5,700 kg monohull with a 8.6m waterline.

More details on my electric drive conversion here:
http://dan.pfeiffer.net/10m/electric_drive.htm

Dan Pfeiffer

On 2023-06-01 10:01 am, Robert McArthur wrote:

Dan (and anyone else who wants to explain!),
Delving back a little...

On Fri, 24 Mar 2023, 3:03 am Dan Pfeiffer, <dan@pfeiffer.net> wrote:

I got a 2nd 12kW motor to use as a generator with a 3cyl Kubota diesel I have (18hp) but have not built the genset yet. The diesel is very compact and I figured I could get a 10-12kW 48VDC generator from the combo. After 2 seasons of use I think a smaller genset would do fine. Maybe 5-6kW. I could motor at decent cruising speed with that. Your use may be different. Genset info:
http://dan.pfeiffer.net/10m/diesel_genset.htm

I just got a quote from one of the few marine DC genset places, and unfortunately it matches what I could find from the others - a new 16kW continuous 48V DC genset is about AU$28,000 or US$18,500. Not installed. Ouch!!

I see above Dan you thought about getting around it with a self-marinised bobtail, connected to a ME1616.

I'm thinking of similar, but perhaps an already marinised Beta 20 connected to the ME1616 (another of which will be propulsion) since I am not particularly mechanically minded to self marinise.

Could you explain to a layman why, if using the ME1616, you would need rectifier or regulator? I thought the ME1616 already put out 48V DC (I presumed an actual 54V or so) with controller. Or would you replace the usual Thunderstruck kit controller with the rectifier and reg for the genset?

Since a brand new marinised kubota (Beta 20) could be less than US$8000, and the ME1616 is about US$1500, it looks about half the cost of buying a named brand 48V DC marine genset! Thoughts?

Another option for marinised is a Yanmar 3YM20. Neither though are a perfect rpm match for the ME1616 which is only (!) 12kW. But if I can spend US$10,000 for 12kW vs $18,500 for 16Kw then it seems a big win.

Rob

Saturday, June 3, 2023

Re: [electricboats] Re Power for SV/Retreat Time Catamaran

I believe the current (amp draw) that you see from the sevcon is motor amps not battery amps

Brian D. HAll

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Re: [electricboats] Duffy electric boats

Darn auto correct. I meant sails....

Sent from my Bell Samsung device over Canada's largest network.

-------- Original message --------

From: "63urban via groups.io" <63urban=gmail.com@groups.io>

Date: 2023-06-03 7:49 a.m. (GMT-05:00)

To: electricboats@groups.io

Subject: Re: [electricboats] Duffy electric boats

Not a Duffy but I'm putting together a little tremolino trimaran no sales just electric. Epropulsion nav three.

Nick

Sent from my Bell Samsung device over Canada's largest network.

-------- Original message --------

From: "zydecomo via groups.io" <zydecomo=yahoo.com@groups.io>

Date: 2023-06-03 7:39 a.m. (GMT-05:00)

To: electricboats@groups.io

Subject: [electricboats] Duffy electric boats

Has anyone put solar panels on a Duffy electric boat? 48 Volt. 16 batteries. I have the boat. I have a Morningstar controller. Thanks for any insight ,ideas or warnings.

Re: [electricboats] Duffy electric boats

Not a Duffy but I'm putting together a little tremolino trimaran no sales just electric. Epropulsion nav three.

Nick

Sent from my Bell Samsung device over Canada's largest network.

-------- Original message --------

From: "zydecomo via groups.io" <zydecomo=yahoo.com@groups.io>

Date: 2023-06-03 7:39 a.m. (GMT-05:00)

To: electricboats@groups.io

Subject: [electricboats] Duffy electric boats

Has anyone put solar panels on a Duffy electric boat? 48 Volt. 16 batteries. I have the boat. I have a Morningstar controller. Thanks for any insight ,ideas or warnings.

[electricboats] Duffy electric boats

Has anyone put solar panels on a Duffy electric boat? 48 Volt. 16 batteries. I have the boat. I have a Morningstar controller. Thanks for any insight ,ideas or warnings.

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Friday, June 2, 2023

Re: [electricboats] Re Power for SV/Retreat Time Catamaran

Sure, if the voltages reported were the same a 20% higher current on the Sevcon would be odd.

Definitely check this because when you went to a steeper pitch the motor current went up for a given motor voltage.

Motor current could easily be 20% or even 50% or higher than the battery current---again, because the controller is effectively trading voltage for current thru switching.

-MT

From: electricboats@groups.io [mailto:electricboats@groups.io] On Behalf Of Dan Pfeiffer
Sent: Friday, June 2, 2023 2:50 PM
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: Re: [electricboats] Re Power for SV/Retreat Time Catamaran

Agreed but Sevcon was reading about 20% higher than Victron. And I think Sevcon and Victron voltages did match but I will have to check that. There are some calibration factors in the canbus translator. I have not explored it in detail.

Dan Pfeiffer

On 2023-06-02 4:20 pm, Myles Twete wrote:

Regarding the discrepancy in current readings between the Sevcon and Victron, it could be due to the Sevcon reporting motor current while the Victron reports battery current. The controller, being a switching power converter effectively can deliver a very high average current at an average voltage (at the motor) of less than the pack. Meanwhile, I imagine the Victron reports battery voltage and current. The product of each I,V pair should come out close to the other (minus controller losses).

-MT

From: electricboats@groups.io [mailto:electricboats@groups.io] On Behalf Of Dan Pfeiffer
Sent: Friday, June 2, 2023 11:29 AM
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: Re: [electricboats] Re Power for SV/Retreat Time Catamaran

Have you got any performance data?

My setup is very similar. 12500lb, 33ft (28.3 LWL) monohull. I also have the Thunderstruck 12kW liquid cooled (ME1616). I have 3:1 reduction that I fabricated myself and a three bladed 18" feathering prop that I can adjust the pitch on. My performance has exceeded the predictions by 10-15% and I think that is largely due to being able to more closely match the prop to the motor and reduction gear.

This season I increased the prop pitch by 1 setting. The effective change in pitch is approximately from 13.5" to 15" so from 18x13.5 to 18x15. I only have one set of data and it seems like I have increased the performance significanly with this change. Like 30% less power for same speed. It seems too big an improvement to be believed so I will need to collect more data and change the pitch back to repeat the data collection at the previous setting. And at the lower pitch setting max throttle would peak at 250 amps or so. Now I saw it spike up to 310amps which is above C rating (280 amps) so I need to check on that least I cause some damage. But that was the value from the Sevcon through the bluetooth to my tablet and it does NOT agree with the Victron BMV712 which I trust for being correct for power draw on with it's shunt.

So, interesting but more data to collect. I built a new cooling system controller and I need to install that before proceeding to high power testing.

Dan Pfeiffer

On 2023-06-02 8:34 am, kurtphone@gmail.com wrote:

I have a 34', 13500 lb keel/centerboard cat/ketch with a Thunderstruck 12kw watercooled kit. Prop is 17" x 13" fixed 2 blade. I am using the "large" Thunderstruck 2.5-1 gear reduction which is chain rather than belt. Initially the boat was over-propped and the current draw overwhelmed the C rating of the bank. I bought 10' of SS #50 roller chain, 3 different size motor sprockets and a chain breaker all for $200. Changing the reduction ratio takes less than 1 hour and I do not have to haul the boat. Things are working much better now at 3.33-1. Interesting how good regen worked when it was over-propped.

i am using a 3kw aircooled quiet generator on propane to reduce my range anxiety. I have it mounted in a cockpit locker with 2 x 3" 12 volt blowers evacuating the locker and a water jacketed extension exhausting out the transom. Temps in the locker are 110 degrees max. Generator can keep up with the load at 4 knots.

Re: [electricboats] Re Power for SV/Retreat Time Catamaran

On 2023-06-02 4:20 pm, Myles Twete wrote:

Regarding the discrepancy in current readings between the Sevcon and Victron, it could be due to the Sevcon reporting motor current while the Victron reports battery current. The controller, being a switching power converter effectively can deliver a very high average current at an average voltage (at the motor) of less than the pack. Meanwhile, I imagine the Victron reports battery voltage and current. The product of each I,V pair should come out close to the other (minus controller losses).

-MT

From: electricboats@groups.io [mailto:electricboats@groups.io] On Behalf Of Dan Pfeiffer
Sent: Friday, June 2, 2023 11:29 AM
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: Re: [electricboats] Re Power for SV/Retreat Time Catamaran

Have you got any performance data?

My setup is very similar. 12500lb, 33ft (28.3 LWL) monohull. I also have the Thunderstruck 12kW liquid cooled (ME1616). I have 3:1 reduction that I fabricated myself and a three bladed 18" feathering prop that I can adjust the pitch on. My performance has exceeded the predictions by 10-15% and I think that is largely due to being able to more closely match the prop to the motor and reduction gear.

This season I increased the prop pitch by 1 setting. The effective change in pitch is approximately from 13.5" to 15" so from 18x13.5 to 18x15. I only have one set of data and it seems like I have increased the performance significanly with this change. Like 30% less power for same speed. It seems too big an improvement to be believed so I will need to collect more data and change the pitch back to repeat the data collection at the previous setting. And at the lower pitch setting max throttle would peak at 250 amps or so. Now I saw it spike up to 310amps which is above C rating (280 amps) so I need to check on that least I cause some damage. But that was the value from the Sevcon through the bluetooth to my tablet and it does NOT agree with the Victron BMV712 which I trust for being correct for power draw on with it's shunt.

So, interesting but more data to collect. I built a new cooling system controller and I need to install that before proceeding to high power testing.

Dan Pfeiffer

On 2023-06-02 8:34 am, kurtphone@gmail.com wrote:

I have a 34', 13500 lb keel/centerboard cat/ketch with a Thunderstruck 12kw watercooled kit. Prop is 17" x 13" fixed 2 blade. I am using the "large" Thunderstruck 2.5-1 gear reduction which is chain rather than belt. Initially the boat was over-propped and the current draw overwhelmed the C rating of the bank. I bought 10' of SS #50 roller chain, 3 different size motor sprockets and a chain breaker all for $200. Changing the reduction ratio takes less than 1 hour and I do not have to haul the boat. Things are working much better now at 3.33-1. Interesting how good regen worked when it was over-propped.

i am using a 3kw aircooled quiet generator on propane to reduce my range anxiety. I have it mounted in a cockpit locker with 2 x 3" 12 volt blowers evacuating the locker and a water jacketed extension exhausting out the transom. Temps in the locker are 110 degrees max. Generator can keep up with the load at 4 knots.

Re: [electricboats] Re Power for SV/Retreat Time Catamaran

Regarding the discrepancy in current readings between the Sevcon and Victron, it could be due to the Sevcon reporting motor current while the Victron reports battery current. The controller, being a switching power converter effectively can deliver a very high average current at an average voltage (at the motor) of less than the pack. Meanwhile, I imagine the Victron reports battery voltage and current. The product of each I,V pair should come out close to the other (minus controller losses).

-MT

From: electricboats@groups.io [mailto:electricboats@groups.io] On Behalf Of Dan Pfeiffer
Sent: Friday, June 2, 2023 11:29 AM
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: Re: [electricboats] Re Power for SV/Retreat Time Catamaran

Have you got any performance data?

My setup is very similar. 12500lb, 33ft (28.3 LWL) monohull. I also have the Thunderstruck 12kW liquid cooled (ME1616). I have 3:1 reduction that I fabricated myself and a three bladed 18" feathering prop that I can adjust the pitch on. My performance has exceeded the predictions by 10-15% and I think that is largely due to being able to more closely match the prop to the motor and reduction gear.

This season I increased the prop pitch by 1 setting. The effective change in pitch is approximately from 13.5" to 15" so from 18x13.5 to 18x15. I only have one set of data and it seems like I have increased the performance significanly with this change. Like 30% less power for same speed. It seems too big an improvement to be believed so I will need to collect more data and change the pitch back to repeat the data collection at the previous setting. And at the lower pitch setting max throttle would peak at 250 amps or so. Now I saw it spike up to 310amps which is above C rating (280 amps) so I need to check on that least I cause some damage. But that was the value from the Sevcon through the bluetooth to my tablet and it does NOT agree with the Victron BMV712 which I trust for being correct for power draw on with it's shunt.

So, interesting but more data to collect. I built a new cooling system controller and I need to install that before proceeding to high power testing.

Dan Pfeiffer

On 2023-06-02 8:34 am, kurtphone@gmail.com wrote:

I have a 34', 13500 lb keel/centerboard cat/ketch with a Thunderstruck 12kw watercooled kit. Prop is 17" x 13" fixed 2 blade. I am using the "large" Thunderstruck 2.5-1 gear reduction which is chain rather than belt. Initially the boat was over-propped and the current draw overwhelmed the C rating of the bank. I bought 10' of SS #50 roller chain, 3 different size motor sprockets and a chain breaker all for $200. Changing the reduction ratio takes less than 1 hour and I do not have to haul the boat. Things are working much better now at 3.33-1. Interesting how good regen worked when it was over-propped.

i am using a 3kw aircooled quiet generator on propane to reduce my range anxiety. I have it mounted in a cockpit locker with 2 x 3" 12 volt blowers evacuating the locker and a water jacketed extension exhausting out the transom. Temps in the locker are 110 degrees max. Generator can keep up with the load at 4 knots.

Re: [electricboats] Re Power for SV/Retreat Time Catamaran

On 2023-06-02 8:34 am, kurtphone@gmail.com wrote:

I have a 34’, 13500 lb keel/centerboard cat/ketch with a Thunderstruck 12kw watercooled kit. Prop is 17” x 13” fixed 2 blade. I am using the “large” Thunderstruck 2.5-1 gear reduction which is chain rather than belt. Initially the boat was over-propped and the current draw overwhelmed the C rating of the bank. I bought 10’ of SS #50 roller chain, 3 different size motor sprockets and a chain breaker all for $200. Changing the reduction ratio takes less than 1 hour and I do not have to haul the boat. Things are working much better now at 3.33-1. Interesting how good regen worked when it was over-propped.

i am using a 3kw aircooled quiet generator on propane to reduce my range anxiety. I have it mounted in a cockpit locker with 2 x 3” 12 volt blowers evacuating the locker and a water jacketed extension exhausting out the transom. Temps in the locker are 110 degrees max. Generator can keep up with the load at 4 knots.

Re: [electricboats] Connectors question for electric outboard

You can also get SB50 / PP75 contacts that support 6AWG, 8AWG, or 10AWG without a bushing:

https://powerwerx.com/anderson-pp75-sb50-loose-piece-contact

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Re: [electricboats] Connectors question for electric outboard

There are sleeve bushings for those Anderson connectors, to better allow the use of smaller wire:

https://powerwerx.com/anderson-powerpole-reducing-bushings

I have the Hangkai 2.2kW motor, and used it briefly on my five-meter cat, before switching to the ePropulsion Navy 6.0 Evo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-LgYopV8Pc

Speeds were in the neighborhood of 7.5mph.

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Re: [electricboats] Connectors question for electric outboard

I'm planning to use an electric outboard on the West Marine RIB 310 for my trawler. The dinghy is about 10' long, weighs a little over 100 pounds empty, plus 2-3 "solid sized" adults, plus motor and battery. Current plan is to experiment with a 48V Hangkai electric outboard, powered by a BTR 48V Ebike battery.

Question: What connectors are best for using in the marine environment?

I have experience with Torqeedos, and they use Anderson Plugs. Is that the best option for being able to quickly plug between the battery and the motor?

One thing I want to do is put a small box between the battery and motor. The box will include a battery switch on the positive leg and a Victron battery monitor on the negative leg. While the Torqeedo used Anderson type connectors, I believe 120A type - I'll probably go with 50A Anderson connectors for the Hangkai. This is because both the batteries and the motor use small guage leads - 12GA at most. This is challenging enough to crimp into the pins of the 50A connector (intended for 8ga wire). I have a crimper that I use for most of the large pins and terminal lugs, but have to resort to using a bench vice to crimp the connectors on the small motor and battery leads. I'm planning to use 8 ga wire for the longer runs. The motor is rated at 1000W. I'm assuming I shouldn't be running much over 20A peak, probably more like 800W for typical cruising.

The Hangkai is tiny compared to the Torqeedo 2T. But I'm really curious to see how the Hangkai does, and am REALLY hopeful that it works out. At $350, it's less than 1/10th the cost of a Torqeedo. The Ebike 48V batteries seem to be much better priced and much more available than 24V lithium batteries. My hope is that a 50A Ebike battery will get me at least 2 hours of run time at around 800W on the Hangkai - and I'm REALLY hopeful that 800W will be enough to push the dinghy at least to 3-4mph.

I'm looking forward to being able to put some data together to compare the Torqeedo to the Hangkai. I understand that the Hangkai has less than half the power of the Torqeedo (and the prop on the Hangkai also seems tiny compared to the Torqeedo prop) - but if it can honestly put out what it claims to do, I think that'll be sufficient for a small dinghy. Given my battery bank, 800W would be a good burn rate. I know it'll never get me on plane or win any races. But if it gets me from the boat to the beach, and lets me toodle around a little from time to time, that'll be just fine.

John

Thursday, June 29, 2023

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