T-Pain Is On A Boat: October 2022

Monday, October 31, 2022

Re: [electricboats] Elco vs ePropulsion

That's interesting about all the inoperative torqueedos. I'd be interested to hear what the failures are. They are pretty highly regarded from what I've seen. Also interested to hear why the aversion to direct drive? I do see the potential problem of leakage which would pretty much destroy the motor ( just gave up on a trolling motor that has leaked).

I did however just buy an epropulsion spirit plus for my pontoon boat. Higher capacity battery (that floats!) and no surcharge for long shaft. Can't wait to try it out.

These motors are relatively expensive, but I'm paying for convenience. My daughter will be the main skipper on the pontoon boat and lugging a 12v marine battery for a trolling motor, or fooling with 2 cycle gas mix and pull starting a gas outboard detracts from enjoying time on the lake.

-Steve

On Oct 31, 2022, at 4:49 PM, shredderf16 <Shredderf16@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Miles and F Neil,
    Thanks for the info. For the 12 foot dinghy I have a 1.2 kw Hang Kai, which like the Elco is a gas lower end modification. Small prop. I've looked around St Thomas at what people have and there are a ton of inoperative Torqueedos and I do have a friend with an Epropulsion 3.0 which he likes. The Elco is too big for the boat. I consulted with a boat designer friend who's a drag expert and he said it should run at 10 knots on 700 watts. So I'm going to put it in the water and test it with the small motor and see if it's acceptable.

    I've noticed that 2 kw and under ebike and gocart motors are getting really cheap on Amazon. If one were to make an outboard leg out of these the most expensive part seems to be the right angle gearbox for the lower end. I found an industrial/farming type that would work but it's not water sealed. Anyone know of one? I agree with Myles that I don't want an underwater motor type unit. What I'd like to do is make a really lightweight leg out of mostly carbon that could swing big props and that is bulletproof. Then use the cheap motors and replace them as needed. It looks like the quality smaller motors like the Etek and Mars have almost disappeared.

    I'll write back once I test the boat with the small motor, it might be enough power.
Thanks,
Jerry Barth

On October 31, 2022, at 1:46 PM, Myles Twete <matwete@comcast.net> wrote:

I can't imagine that the drive efficiency loss thru the "90 degree turn from drive shaft to prop" amounts to much. The big loss is in using a small prop.
My outboard conversion has served me well now since converting a 25HP 2-stroke Tohatsu to electric in 2003. There are few with conversions or kits running today that predate this. Thunderstruck Motors had started not long before this and had not yet offered its boat kits yet---I bought my ETEK from them after watching them drag race motorcycles in Oregon in 2003. My telling them about my boat and buying the ETEK from them may have got them interested in targeting the boat market.
Initially, I was not super impressed with the performance of my conversion, yet I was sold. But then initially I was running with the stock 9.9" prop. It did not take long before I modified my lower unit to accommodate up to a 14" prop. I have been running with a 12" diameter 3-blade brass prop for about 18years now and have been quite pleased with the economy. The amount of efficiency gain possible in going to 14" might be worth the expense and hassle, but probably only a small percentage. Still, I may consider that one day.
One thing I will never do: Eliminate the lower unit gearing for some other drive or relocation of the motor to an underwater pod.
I do need to replace my original ETEK 8HP motor very soon. It's served me well for 19 years+ now, but with 3 sets of brushes nearly gone now and none available anywhere these days, I need to upgrade. I'm considering brush and brushless options.
-Myles Twete, Portland, Or.
The Reach of Tide: www.evalbum.com/492

From: electricboats@groups.io [mailto:electricboats@groups.io] On Behalf Of F. Neil
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2022 11:16 AM
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: [electricboats] Elco vs ePropulsion

I would recommend checking out the ePropulsion outboards. I first bought an Elco 9.9 and was not happy with the noise and low efficiency. I then bought an ePropulsion Navy 6.0, which is much quieter, and much more efficient with its' larger 3 bladed props. The Elco is basically built on the bottom unit of a small-propped gas outboard, and loses efficiency in the 90 degree turn from the drive shaft to the prop, whereas the ePropulsion is a more modern design, with direct drive motor underwater that the prop is directly attached to. There are lower kW units that would be cheaper than the 6.0 that would be appropriate for your smaller (displacement?) boat.

Re: [electricboats] Elco vs ePropulsion

Update: I'm excited. I just placed an order for new brushes for my original ETEK motor. Found that Thunderstruck has them again. We'll see if they fit.

From: electricboats@groups.io [mailto:electricboats@groups.io] On Behalf Of Myles Twete
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2022 11:46 AM
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: Re: [electricboats] Elco vs ePropulsion

I can't imagine that the drive efficiency loss thru the "90 degree turn from drive shaft to prop" amounts to much. The big loss is in using a small prop.

My outboard conversion has served me well now since converting a 25HP 2-stroke Tohatsu to electric in 2003. There are few with conversions or kits running today that predate this. Thunderstruck Motors had started not long before this and had not yet offered its boat kits yet---I bought my ETEK from them after watching them drag race motorcycles in Oregon in 2003. My telling them about my boat and buying the ETEK from them may have got them interested in targeting the boat market.

Initially, I was not super impressed with the performance of my conversion, yet I was sold. But then initially I was running with the stock 9.9" prop. It did not take long before I modified my lower unit to accommodate up to a 14" prop. I have been running with a 12" diameter 3-blade brass prop for about 18years now and have been quite pleased with the economy. The amount of efficiency gain possible in going to 14" might be worth the expense and hassle, but probably only a small percentage. Still, I may consider that one day.

One thing I will never do: Eliminate the lower unit gearing for some other drive or relocation of the motor to an underwater pod.

I do need to replace my original ETEK 8HP motor very soon. It's served me well for 19 years+ now, but with 3 sets of brushes nearly gone now and none available anywhere these days, I need to upgrade. I'm considering brush and brushless options.

-Myles Twete, Portland, Or.

The Reach of Tide: www.evalbum.com/492

From: electricboats@groups.io [mailto:electricboats@groups.io] On Behalf Of F. Neil
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2022 11:16 AM
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: [electricboats] Elco vs ePropulsion

I would recommend checking out the ePropulsion outboards. I first bought an Elco 9.9 and was not happy with the noise and low efficiency. I then bought an ePropulsion Navy 6.0, which is much quieter, and much more efficient with its' larger 3 bladed props. The Elco is basically built on the bottom unit of a small-propped gas outboard, and loses efficiency in the 90 degree turn from the drive shaft to the prop, whereas the ePropulsion is a more modern design, with direct drive motor underwater that the prop is directly attached to. There are lower kW units that would be cheaper than the 6.0 that would be appropriate for your smaller (displacement?) boat.

Re: [electricboats] Elco vs ePropulsion

On the PM brush motors similar to the ETEK, this is a decent read:

A Short Primer on the History of the Etek Motor, and Other Tales | The Electric Chronicles: Power in Flux (wordpress.com)

My translation:

The ETEK went bye-bye many years ago (before 2009). ETEK's design was based on the Lynch motor design (LEMCO or LMC) and Agni Motors followed. John Fiorenza who had been involved in ETEK motors went and started producing similar motors under the new Mars Electric label which produced the ETEK-R and ETEK-RT motors. Then along the way came the PermPMG (now Heinzmann?) motors which like the motors by Lynch and the Agni motors were axial flux and higher efficiency than the original ETEK. ETEK-R, ETEK-RT (names given by resellers and not MARS) and other perm magnet brush motors we have seen are radial flux motors. Mars later came out with ME0708, ME0709 and other models of axial flux motors.

PMG (earlier Cupex) was to be a supplier for Lynch but instead went off and started making their own high performance axial flux motors (PMG 132) based on the Lynch design. Later, Motenergy seems to have picked up the MARS line of motors and appears to still produce several radial flux brush motors (new and used seen on Ebay and from suppliers like Thunderstruck Motors). Others also have a full line of Motenergy radial flux brushmotor options, e.g. here: - Brushed Motors - MOTORS - EV PARTS (electricmotorsport.com) ($400-800 ish range).

I still see European sources listing Heinzmann PMG132, Agni and Motenergy motor versions as with this site in France: Direct current motors (kit-elec-shop.com) I purchased a set of "ETEK" brushes from them but they turned out to be brushes for a PMG132. Now it looks like they may have the ETEK style brushes so I might have to take a chance on them…would at least keep the boat going for another few years without forcing an upgrade…

In case this helps…

-MT

From: electricboats@groups.io [mailto:electricboats@groups.io] On Behalf Of shredderf16
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2022 1:50 PM
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: Re: [electricboats] Elco vs ePropulsion

Miles and F Neil,
Thanks for the info. For the 12 foot dinghy I have a 1.2 kw Hang Kai, which like the Elco is a gas lower end modification. Small prop. I've looked around St Thomas at what people have and there are a ton of inoperative Torqueedos and I do have a friend with an Epropulsion 3.0 which he likes. The Elco is too big for the boat. I consulted with a boat designer friend who's a drag expert and he said it should run at 10 knots on 700 watts. So I'm going to put it in the water and test it with the small motor and see if it's acceptable.

I've noticed that 2 kw and under ebike and gocart motors are getting really cheap on Amazon. If one were to make an outboard leg out of these the most expensive part seems to be the right angle gearbox for the lower end. I found an industrial/farming type that would work but it's not water sealed. Anyone know of one? I agree with Myles that I don't want an underwater motor type unit. What I'd like to do is make a really lightweight leg out of mostly carbon that could swing big props and that is bulletproof. Then use the cheap motors and replace them as needed. It looks like the quality smaller motors like the Etek and Mars have almost disappeared.

I'll write back once I test the boat with the small motor, it might be enough power.
Thanks,
Jerry Barth

On October 31, 2022, at 1:46 PM, Myles Twete <matwete@comcast.net> wrote:

I can't imagine that the drive efficiency loss thru the "90 degree turn from drive shaft to prop" amounts to much. The big loss is in using a small prop.

One thing I will never do: Eliminate the lower unit gearing for some other drive or relocation of the motor to an underwater pod.

-Myles Twete, Portland, Or.

The Reach of Tide: www.evalbum.com/492

Re: [electricboats] Elco vs ePropulsion

Ray motors are old design but I find them very reliable. I have a 60V on a 24 ft pontoon. Years without any trouble. I would do a 48V next time though.

Harry M

On Mon, Oct 31, 2022 at 4:49 PM shredderf16 <Shredderf16@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Miles and F Neil,
    Thanks for the info. For the 12 foot dinghy I have a 1.2 kw Hang Kai, which like the Elco is a gas lower end modification. Small prop. I've looked around St Thomas at what people have and there are a ton of inoperative Torqueedos and I do have a friend with an Epropulsion 3.0 which he likes. The Elco is too big for the boat. I consulted with a boat designer friend who's a drag expert and he said it should run at 10 knots on 700 watts. So I'm going to put it in the water and test it with the small motor and see if it's acceptable.

    I've noticed that 2 kw and under ebike and gocart motors are getting really cheap on Amazon. If one were to make an outboard leg out of these the most expensive part seems to be the right angle gearbox for the lower end. I found an industrial/farming type that would work but it's not water sealed. Anyone know of one? I agree with Myles that I don't want an underwater motor type unit. What I'd like to do is make a really lightweight leg out of mostly carbon that could swing big props and that is bulletproof. Then use the cheap motors and replace them as needed. It looks like the quality smaller motors like the Etek and Mars have almost disappeared.

    I'll write back once I test the boat with the small motor, it might be enough power.
Thanks,
Jerry Barth

On October 31, 2022, at 1:46 PM, Myles Twete <matwete@comcast.net> wrote:

I can't imagine that the drive efficiency loss thru the "90 degree turn from drive shaft to prop" amounts to much. The big loss is in using a small prop.
My outboard conversion has served me well now since converting a 25HP 2-stroke Tohatsu to electric in 2003. There are few with conversions or kits running today that predate this. Thunderstruck Motors had started not long before this and had not yet offered its boat kits yet---I bought my ETEK from them after watching them drag race motorcycles in Oregon in 2003. My telling them about my boat and buying the ETEK from them may have got them interested in targeting the boat market.
Initially, I was not super impressed with the performance of my conversion, yet I was sold. But then initially I was running with the stock 9.9" prop. It did not take long before I modified my lower unit to accommodate up to a 14" prop. I have been running with a 12" diameter 3-blade brass prop for about 18years now and have been quite pleased with the economy. The amount of efficiency gain possible in going to 14" might be worth the expense and hassle, but probably only a small percentage. Still, I may consider that one day.
One thing I will never do: Eliminate the lower unit gearing for some other drive or relocation of the motor to an underwater pod.
I do need to replace my original ETEK 8HP motor very soon. It's served me well for 19 years+ now, but with 3 sets of brushes nearly gone now and none available anywhere these days, I need to upgrade. I'm considering brush and brushless options.
-Myles Twete, Portland, Or.
The Reach of Tide: www.evalbum.com/492

From: electricboats@groups.io [mailto:electricboats@groups.io] On Behalf Of F. Neil
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2022 11:16 AM
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: [electricboats] Elco vs ePropulsion

I would recommend checking out the ePropulsion outboards. I first bought an Elco 9.9 and was not happy with the noise and low efficiency. I then bought an ePropulsion Navy 6.0, which is much quieter, and much more efficient with its' larger 3 bladed props. The Elco is basically built on the bottom unit of a small-propped gas outboard, and loses efficiency in the 90 degree turn from the drive shaft to the prop, whereas the ePropulsion is a more modern design, with direct drive motor underwater that the prop is directly attached to. There are lower kW units that would be cheaper than the 6.0 that would be appropriate for your smaller (displacement?) boat.

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Re: [electricboats] Elco vs ePropulsion

Hi Jerry,

Did you say what kind of boat you have? 10 knots at 700 watts sounds like a dream. I imagine 700 watts is the propulsive power At the prop? So motor watts will be something like 1200?

Matt Foley

Sunlight Conversions

1-201-914-0466

Sunlightconversions.com

Instagram:sunlightconversions

WeChat: Mattymoonshine

On Oct 31, 2022, at 4:49 PM, shredderf16 <Shredderf16@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Miles and F Neil,
    Thanks for the info. For the 12 foot dinghy I have a 1.2 kw Hang Kai, which like the Elco is a gas lower end modification. Small prop. I've looked around St Thomas at what people have and there are a ton of inoperative Torqueedos and I do have a friend with an Epropulsion 3.0 which he likes. The Elco is too big for the boat. I consulted with a boat designer friend who's a drag expert and he said it should run at 10 knots on 700 watts. So I'm going to put it in the water and test it with the small motor and see if it's acceptable.

    I've noticed that 2 kw and under ebike and gocart motors are getting really cheap on Amazon. If one were to make an outboard leg out of these the most expensive part seems to be the right angle gearbox for the lower end. I found an industrial/farming type that would work but it's not water sealed. Anyone know of one? I agree with Myles that I don't want an underwater motor type unit. What I'd like to do is make a really lightweight leg out of mostly carbon that could swing big props and that is bulletproof. Then use the cheap motors and replace them as needed. It looks like the quality smaller motors like the Etek and Mars have almost disappeared.

    I'll write back once I test the boat with the small motor, it might be enough power.
Thanks,
Jerry Barth

On October 31, 2022, at 1:46 PM, Myles Twete <matwete@comcast.net> wrote:

I can't imagine that the drive efficiency loss thru the "90 degree turn from drive shaft to prop" amounts to much. The big loss is in using a small prop.
My outboard conversion has served me well now since converting a 25HP 2-stroke Tohatsu to electric in 2003. There are few with conversions or kits running today that predate this. Thunderstruck Motors had started not long before this and had not yet offered its boat kits yet---I bought my ETEK from them after watching them drag race motorcycles in Oregon in 2003. My telling them about my boat and buying the ETEK from them may have got them interested in targeting the boat market.
Initially, I was not super impressed with the performance of my conversion, yet I was sold. But then initially I was running with the stock 9.9" prop. It did not take long before I modified my lower unit to accommodate up to a 14" prop. I have been running with a 12" diameter 3-blade brass prop for about 18years now and have been quite pleased with the economy. The amount of efficiency gain possible in going to 14" might be worth the expense and hassle, but probably only a small percentage. Still, I may consider that one day.
One thing I will never do: Eliminate the lower unit gearing for some other drive or relocation of the motor to an underwater pod.
I do need to replace my original ETEK 8HP motor very soon. It's served me well for 19 years+ now, but with 3 sets of brushes nearly gone now and none available anywhere these days, I need to upgrade. I'm considering brush and brushless options.
-Myles Twete, Portland, Or.
The Reach of Tide: www.evalbum.com/492

From: electricboats@groups.io [mailto:electricboats@groups.io] On Behalf Of F. Neil
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2022 11:16 AM
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: [electricboats] Elco vs ePropulsion

I would recommend checking out the ePropulsion outboards. I first bought an Elco 9.9 and was not happy with the noise and low efficiency. I then bought an ePropulsion Navy 6.0, which is much quieter, and much more efficient with its' larger 3 bladed props. The Elco is basically built on the bottom unit of a small-propped gas outboard, and loses efficiency in the 90 degree turn from the drive shaft to the prop, whereas the ePropulsion is a more modern design, with direct drive motor underwater that the prop is directly attached to. There are lower kW units that would be cheaper than the 6.0 that would be appropriate for your smaller (displacement?) boat.

Re: [electricboats] Elco vs ePropulsion

I can't imagine that the drive efficiency loss thru the "90 degree turn from drive shaft to prop" amounts to much. The big loss is in using a small prop.

One thing I will never do: Eliminate the lower unit gearing for some other drive or relocation of the motor to an underwater pod.

-Myles Twete, Portland, Or.

The Reach of Tide: www.evalbum.com/492

Re: [electricboats] Elco vs ePropulsion

I can't imagine that the drive efficiency loss thru the "90 degree turn from drive shaft to prop" amounts to much. The big loss is in using a small prop.

One thing I will never do: Eliminate the lower unit gearing for some other drive or relocation of the motor to an underwater pod.

-Myles Twete, Portland, Or.

The Reach of Tide: www.evalbum.com/492

Re: [electricboats] Elco vs ePropulsion

Sorry, that post was supposed to be a reply to the "3-5 Kw 48v motor" thread...

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[electricboats] Elco vs ePropulsion

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Friday, October 28, 2022

Re: [electricboats] 3-5 Kw 48v motor

Hull weight is 800 lbs. I think all set up it's around 1200. So pretty light for a small cruiser.

http://www.clcboats.com/shop/boats/wooden-sailboat-kits/pocketship/pocketship-sailing-pocket-cruiser-kit.html

-Steve

On Oct 28, 2022, at 6:59 PM, Mike hurley via groups.io <redwood1957=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Love to see plans. What's the finished weight?

On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 6:52 PM, steve sawtelle via groups.io
<swsyah=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I'm building a Pocketship and considered a pod motor, but I read a paper that showed that the pod drag becomes a large percent as boat weight goes down; which does make sense. I just hadn't thought of it that way. I'm thinking I'm going to use a epropulsion Evo with remote throttle, and raise it up when sailing. It does have regeneration, so I could put it down if winds are strong (needs over 4 knots to start regen). But again, the drag will be large on a lighter boat.

-Steve

> On Oct 28, 2022, at 5:58 PM, shredderf16 <Shredderf16@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> Guys,
> I'm building a 12 foot cat dinghy. I'm probably going to go with the Elco outboard but thinking of a longtail type inboard instead. I haven't been following motors for a couple of years. Looking for a 3-5 kw brushless motor and controller. Please let me know of which motor you guys would pick.
> Thanks,
> Jerry Barth
>
>
>
>

Re: [electricboats] 3-5 Kw 48v motor

Hull weight is 800 lbs. I think all set up it's around 1200. So pretty light for a small cruiser.

http://www.clcboats.com/shop/boats/wooden-sailboat-kits/pocketship/pocketship-sailing-pocket-cruiser-kit.html

-Steve

On Oct 28, 2022, at 6:59 PM, Mike hurley via groups.io <redwood1957=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Love to see plans. What's the finished weight?

On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 6:52 PM, steve sawtelle via groups.io
<swsyah=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I'm building a Pocketship and considered a pod motor, but I read a paper that showed that the pod drag becomes a large percent as boat weight goes down; which does make sense. I just hadn't thought of it that way. I'm thinking I'm going to use a epropulsion Evo with remote throttle, and raise it up when sailing. It does have regeneration, so I could put it down if winds are strong (needs over 4 knots to start regen). But again, the drag will be large on a lighter boat.

-Steve

> On Oct 28, 2022, at 5:58 PM, shredderf16 <Shredderf16@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> Guys,
> I'm building a 12 foot cat dinghy. I'm probably going to go with the Elco outboard but thinking of a longtail type inboard instead. I haven't been following motors for a couple of years. Looking for a 3-5 kw brushless motor and controller. Please let me know of which motor you guys would pick.
> Thanks,
> Jerry Barth
>
>
>
>

Re: [electricboats] 3-5 Kw 48v motor

Love to see plans. What's the finished weight?

On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 6:52 PM, steve sawtelle via groups.io
<swsyah=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I'm building a Pocketship and considered a pod motor, but I read a paper that showed that the pod drag becomes a large percent as boat weight goes down; which does make sense. I just hadn't thought of it that way. I'm thinking I'm going to use a epropulsion Evo with remote throttle, and raise it up when sailing. It does have regeneration, so I could put it down if winds are strong (needs over 4 knots to start regen). But again, the drag will be large on a lighter boat.

-Steve

> On Oct 28, 2022, at 5:58 PM, shredderf16 <Shredderf16@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> Guys,
> I'm building a 12 foot cat dinghy. I'm probably going to go with the Elco outboard but thinking of a longtail type inboard instead. I haven't been following motors for a couple of years. Looking for a 3-5 kw brushless motor and controller. Please let me know of which motor you guys would pick.
> Thanks,
> Jerry Barth
>
>
>
>

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Re: [electricboats] 3-5 Kw 48v motor

I'm building a Pocketship and considered a pod motor, but I read a paper that showed that the pod drag becomes a large percent as boat weight goes down; which does make sense. I just hadn't thought of it that way. I'm thinking I'm going to use a epropulsion Evo with remote throttle, and raise it up when sailing. It does have regeneration, so I could put it down if winds are strong (needs over 4 knots to start regen). But again, the drag will be large on a lighter boat.

-Steve

> On Oct 28, 2022, at 5:58 PM, shredderf16 <Shredderf16@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> Guys,
> I'm building a 12 foot cat dinghy. I'm probably going to go with the Elco outboard but thinking of a longtail type inboard instead. I haven't been following motors for a couple of years. Looking for a 3-5 kw brushless motor and controller. Please let me know of which motor you guys would pick.
> Thanks,
> Jerry Barth
>
>
>
>

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[electricboats] 3-5 Kw 48v motor

Guys,
I'm building a 12 foot cat dinghy. I'm probably going to go with the Elco outboard but thinking of a longtail type inboard instead. I haven't been following motors for a couple of years. Looking for a 3-5 kw brushless motor and controller. Please let me know of which motor you guys would pick.
Thanks,
Jerry Barth

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Tuesday, October 18, 2022

Re: [electricboats] Maximum input voltage for outboard?

A change in plans due to the weather forecast: My launch has moved to 1 PM on Sunday the 23rd. Chance of rain, but not as much as Saturday. Fingers crossed. :)
Jim

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Monday, October 17, 2022

Re: [electricboats] Maximum input voltage for outboard?

Hello again,

After resolving the wiring and voltage issue (went with changing to 24 volts just because it was something I could quickly and get the boat on the water.)

Speaking of which... if anyone in the area would like to stop by at the official launching, I intend to put her in the water at the Magnuson Park launch ramp on Lake Washington at around 1 PM this coming Saturday (the 22nd). There's still some work to be done, but the "make it go" system is functional. :)

Jim

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Saturday, October 8, 2022

Re: [electricboats] Cutis 1238-5601 Motor controller failure.

Mine did something similar, check the motor encoder, thunderstruck has a page explaining how to change out and test.

John Winterrowd 702 343 1492 4.2.1. Email Disclaimer NOTICE: The information contained in this electronic transmission is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. ANY DISTRIBUTION OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS PROHIBITED, except by the intended recipient. Attempts to intercept this message are in violation of 18 U.S.C. 2511(1) of the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, which subjects the interceptor to fines, imprisonment and/or civil damages. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete it and notify me.

On Friday, October 7, 2022, 05:10:08 PM EDT, Anton <antonherbert@earthlink.net> wrote:

Hello,

I have a thunderstruck motor system Ac34 kit in my sailboat.

I recently had a failed contractor and seem to have fried the motor controller. (Curtis 1238-5601)

I was getting error message 37 "motor open".

I spoke with Bill over at HPEVS, when I told him the leads from controller to motor tested good, he right away suspected the controller.

He was going to have me send it in to them to see if they could fix it, but when I told him I could hear something rattling around inside he said sounds like a fried MOSFET and suggested I send it to FSIP in Pa.

FSIP will ONLY do a full reconditioning for $1200.00, tempting as it will come back like new condition with a one year warranty.

But I was curious if anyone knows a place that might just fix what is broken and cost much less, or if any one has opened up the case of one of the Curtis controllers and had any luck replacing burned out mosfet's.

I think FSIP's price to rebuild will be the same even if I was to mess up up even further!

Thank you for any help you can offer!

Anton

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Friday, October 7, 2022

Re: [electricboats] Cutis 1238-5601 Motor controller failure.

I've killed two Alltrax controllers. While I can't speak for the Curtis, the Alltrax were effectively unrepairable as the entire circuit board is encased in resin. However, I imagine any controller that could be potentially exposed to water is potted in resin to repel water.

To do a board repair on such devices means you have to dissolve the resin first and then clean the residue off the board so you can solder. None of this is impossible, but it's labour-intensive. It's often cheaper to just get a new unit.

On Sat, 8 Oct 2022 at 08:10, Anton <antonherbert@earthlink.net> wrote:

Hello,

I have a thunderstruck motor system Ac34 kit in my sailboat.

I recently had a failed contractor and seem to have fried the motor controller. (Curtis 1238-5601)

I was getting error message 37 "motor open".

I spoke with Bill over at HPEVS, when I told him the leads from controller to motor tested good, he right away suspected the controller.

He was going to have me send it in to them to see if they could fix it, but when I told him I could hear something rattling around inside he said sounds like a fried MOSFET and suggested I send it to FSIP in Pa.

FSIP will ONLY do a full reconditioning for $1200.00, tempting as it will come back like new condition with a one year warranty.

But I was curious if anyone knows a place that might just fix what is broken and cost much less, or if any one has opened up the case of one of the Curtis controllers and had any luck replacing burned out mosfet's.

I think FSIP's price to rebuild will be the same even if I was to mess up up even further!

Thank you for any help you can offer!

Anton

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[electricboats] Cutis 1238-5601 Motor controller failure.

Hello,

I have a thunderstruck motor system Ac34 kit in my sailboat.

I recently had a failed contractor and seem to have fried the motor controller. (Curtis 1238-5601)

I was getting error message 37 "motor open".

I spoke with Bill over at HPEVS, when I told him the leads from controller to motor tested good, he right away suspected the controller.

He was going to have me send it in to them to see if they could fix it, but when I told him I could hear something rattling around inside he said sounds like a fried MOSFET and suggested I send it to FSIP in Pa.

FSIP will ONLY do a full reconditioning for $1200.00, tempting as it will come back like new condition with a one year warranty.

But I was curious if anyone knows a place that might just fix what is broken and cost much less, or if any one has opened up the case of one of the Curtis controllers and had any luck replacing burned out mosfet's.

I think FSIP's price to rebuild will be the same even if I was to mess up up even further!

Thank you for any help you can offer!

Anton

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Thursday, October 6, 2022

Re: [electricboats] Mars motor and parts - free for pickup SF Bay Area

I live in South Bay. Can I pick it up pls?

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Re: [electricboats] Mars motor and parts - free for pickup SF Bay Area

I would love to have that for my Sabre 28!

I have a friend who can pick it up.

On Oct 6, 2022, at 4:44 PM, tmalcolm <tim@xmfi.org> wrote:

Hi all.

FOR PICKUP OR DROPOFF ONLY - San Jose, CA and South Bay area
PLEASE TAKE ALL OR NOTHING - feel free to resell/gift what you don't want.

I have all the parts from a Columbia 8.3 repower that never happened ... we moved from NY to CA and sold the boat. 10 years later and it's past time to give these parts to someone who can use it for a project :-)

Pickures below .... Sized for 3/4" shaft, extension, key, coupling and collars are 316L, the rest of the metal is 6061-T6 aluminum. Sketch shows how everything was intended to go together and mount in the motor bay ... all bolts (not included) for easy install and allignment.

Please message me if interested, hope this doesn't violate group rules.

Thanks.
--Tim

[electricboats] Mars motor and parts - free for pickup SF Bay Area

Hi all.

FOR PICKUP OR DROPOFF ONLY - San Jose, CA and South Bay area
PLEASE TAKE ALL OR NOTHING - feel free to resell/gift what you don't want.

I have all the parts from a Columbia 8.3 repower that never happened ... we moved from NY to CA and sold the boat. 10 years later and it's past time to give these parts to someone who can use it for a project :-)

Pickures below .... Sized for 3/4" shaft, extension, key, coupling and collars are 316L, the rest of the metal is 6061-T6 aluminum. Sketch shows how everything was intended to go together and mount in the motor bay ... all bolts (not included) for easy install and allignment.

Please message me if interested, hope this doesn't violate group rules.

Thanks.
--Tim

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Wednesday, October 5, 2022

Re: [electricboats] Converting an Allmand Sail 31 to electric

Hi Dan! Thank you for the article, it looks very detailed! I have a lot of questions that I want to ask you but as I read I find that everything is very well explained on your website, thank you for sharing it!

After I finish reading it in its entirety, I will ask you for some doubts I have.

Keep in mind that I have my boat in the water and I don't see the possibility of taking it out soon.

On Oct 5, 2022, at 2:32 PM, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@pfeiffer.net> wrote:

I did a conversion in a similar sized boat last year. I used the 12KW motor you are considering and a similar battery assembly. I have a heat exchanger cooling system with a coolant pump and a raw water pump. I only need the raw water cooling for sustained speeds over 6 knots. I made my own 3:1 reduction unit. I wrote up a fairly detailed account with discussion on the choices I made.
http://dan.pfeiffer.net/10m/electric_drive.htm

Dan Pfeiffer

On 2022-10-01 12:04 pm, elagusfil128@gmail.com wrote:

Hello! I have an Allmand Sail 31 sailboat and I removed its motor to convert it to electric. I would like to share my ideas and listen to recommendations from people with more experience before making purchases.

Engine:

I want to buy the 10KW or the 12KW thunderstruck-ev.com motor kit, I would like to know what you recommend.

When I removed the old motor I took out everything it had, including the cooler and the pump, the truth is that everything was in poor condition.

Now that I am going to buy the electric motor, if I choose the solution with liquid cooling I would have to buy the entire cooling system, and if I choose the air-cooled version it is not much of a problem because I have 2 new blowers that I was thinking of installing for an air conditioning but that idea was cancelled.

Does anyone have the 10KW air cooled motor? Have any problem?

I also plan to buy the support with the 2:1 reduction (although I don't know why when I go to buy it says 2.67:1?)

Batteries:

My idea is to build a battery bank with 16 Lifepo4 320 AH batteries and a 250A BMS. Read experiences about it?

Charger:

5000W Solar Inverter (already purchased)

It is this: https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803396031941.html

12V:

My idea is to have a common 12V battery and a DC-DC Converter that I already bought, this is the 60A version:

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832330206798.html

Thank you very much for your support, and I will tell you about the whole process here and also on my YouTube channel that I started to allocate to this project. Cheers!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkq-EcKeYjA&t=112s

I appreciate your subscription and like, which helps with the YouTube algorithm.

Re: [electricboats] Converting an Allmand Sail 31 to electric

I did a conversion in a similar sized boat last year. I used the 12KW motor you are considering and a similar battery assembly. I have a heat exchanger cooling system with a coolant pump and a raw water pump. I only need the raw water cooling for sustained speeds over 6 knots. I made my own 3:1 reduction unit. I wrote up a fairly detailed account with discussion on the choices I made.
http://dan.pfeiffer.net/10m/electric_drive.htm

Dan Pfeiffer

On 2022-10-01 12:04 pm, elagusfil128@gmail.com wrote:

Hello! I have an Allmand Sail 31 sailboat and I removed its motor to convert it to electric. I would like to share my ideas and listen to recommendations from people with more experience before making purchases.

Engine:

I want to buy the 10KW or the 12KW thunderstruck-ev.com motor kit, I would like to know what you recommend.

When I removed the old motor I took out everything it had, including the cooler and the pump, the truth is that everything was in poor condition.

Now that I am going to buy the electric motor, if I choose the solution with liquid cooling I would have to buy the entire cooling system, and if I choose the air-cooled version it is not much of a problem because I have 2 new blowers that I was thinking of installing for an air conditioning but that idea was cancelled.

Does anyone have the 10KW air cooled motor? Have any problem?

I also plan to buy the support with the 2:1 reduction (although I don't know why when I go to buy it says 2.67:1?)

Batteries:

My idea is to build a battery bank with 16 Lifepo4 320 AH batteries and a 250A BMS. Read experiences about it?

Charger:

5000W Solar Inverter (already purchased)

It is this: https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803396031941.html

12V:

My idea is to have a common 12V battery and a DC-DC Converter that I already bought, this is the 60A version:

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832330206798.html

Thank you very much for your support, and I will tell you about the whole process here and also on my YouTube channel that I started to allocate to this project. Cheers!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkq-EcKeYjA&t=112s

I appreciate your subscription and like, which helps with the YouTube algorithm.

Re: [electricboats] Converting an Allmand Sail 31 to electric

Hi Agustin,

All in one units like the one you chose is find for house, maybe even an RV. For a variety of reasons some obvious some not, an actual marine rated rated inverter will serve you better. Probably more expensive but may be worth it. Look into Victron.

Look at the specs, on your inverter. The minimum solar operating voltage is 120. You will have a very hard time achieving that on a your boat.

I have not yet seen a use case where CIGS make sense. Better shading performance maybe but it will almost certainly not make up for its much lower overall efficiency.

Matt Foley

Sunlight Conversions

Perpetual Energy, LLC

201-914-0466

sunlightconversions.com

instagram.com/sunlightconversions/

youtube/sunlightconversions

On Wednesday, October 5, 2022 at 12:52:10 PM EDT, Agustin Filsinger <elagusfil128@gmail.com> wrote:

Sorry, I missed the untranslated version…

I don't know exactly how the solar inverter works, but it is charging a 48v and 320ah battery bank.

I don't know why it's called a solar inverter, or they sell it under that name. But in reality it is a 48v MPPT Charger + Inverter 48v dc to 120v ac.

And it has the ability to select what is the preferred source of energy, it can be the external network, it can be the energy of panels, or it can be the batteries.

I don't know if anyone else tried to use this type of equipment on boats, I usually see that they have everything separately.

I chose this one, because it gives me the option of connecting a generator or an external power source without having to modify any switch. He will manage the energy transparently, or so I hope so.

Everything is in the development stage and I still don't have all the parts to try it...

I would also like to know about solar panels, because at the moment I saw as a good option the CIGS panels that have less loss due to shadow, but are more expensive.

And on the other hand, I can't find panels that publish them because of their size, something that is too important on a sailboat.

Most say 100w or 200w and then you have to check the sizes within each publication and that makes it quite difficult.

I was thinking of drawing the surface of the sailboat and starting to calculate what the best distribution will be.

The number of panels you place will be the maximum capacity you can.

M Agustín Filsinger

On Oct 5, 2022, at 12:48 PM, Agustin Filsinger <elagusfil128@gmail.com> wrote:

No se perfectamente como funciona el inversor solar, pero el mismo estára cargando un banco de baterías de 48v y 320ah.

No se por que se llama inversor solar, o lo venden con ese nombre. Pero en realidad es un Cargador MPPT de 48v + Inverter 48v dc to 120v ac.

Y tiene la capacidad de seleccionar cuál es la fuente preferida de energía, puede ser la red externa, puede ser la energía de paneles, o puede ser las baterías.

No se si alguien mas probo utilizar este tipo de equipos en barcos, por lo general veo que tienen todo por separado.

Yo elegí este, por qué me da la opción de conectar un generador o una fuente externa de energía sin tener que modificar ningun switch. El administrará la energía de forma transparente, o eso al menos espero.

Todo se encuentra en etapa de desarrollo y aún no tengo todas las partes para probarlo…

También me gustaría saber de paneles solares, por que por el momento vi como una buena opción los paneles CIGS que tienen menor pérdida por sombra, pero son más caros.

Y por otro lado, no logro encontrar paneles que los publiquen por su tamaño, algo que es por demás importante en un velero.

La mayoría dicen 100w o 200w y luego hay q verificar los tamaños dentro de cada publicación y eso lo hace bastante difícil.

Estaba pensando en dibujar la superficie del velero y empezar a calcular cuál será la mejor distribución.

La cantidad de paneles que coloque será la capacidad máxima que pueda.

M Agustín Filsinger

USA +1 929 255 5418

ARG +54 9299 521 0128

On Oct 5, 2022, at 11:20 AM, Matt Foley <matt@sunlightconversions.com> wrote:

I don't think that solar inverter is going to work very well in your situation. Its needs at least 120v from solar in order to work. You would need something like 6 flexible panels in series in order to hit that voltage or 3-4 66 cell rigid panels in series. Even if you could fit that on a 31' sailboat, you would have issues with shading.

Best to find a high voltage panel- above 65v (which is not easy find) and use one dedicated mppt controller per panel or use one boost mppt controller per panel if the panel voltage is below 48v.

Matt Foley
Sunlight Conversions
Perpetual Energy, LLC
201-914-0466
sunlightconversions.com
instagram.com/sunlightconversions/
youtube/sunlightconversions

On Wednesday, October 5, 2022 at 10:53:22 AM EDT, twowheelinguy via groups.io <twowheelinguy=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I would consider several smaller inverters that are dedicated to different loads on your boat rather than one big inverter for everything. For example, I have a 3000W high end Outback inverter for my house power and two dedicated cheap 3000W inverters for my aft and forward A/C units. This distributes the loads so that none of the inverters have to work that hard and you don't have to worry about tripping the breaker if the AC is running while you're making coffee and you put something in the microwave. And, if an inverter fails you have plenty of backup because any one of those inverters could run the whole boat in a pinch with careful load management. You can get a good, no frills pure sine 3000 Watt inverter these days for about $300 bucks. With multiple smaller inverters, you don't have all your eggs in one basket.

Admittedly my system is a little extreme but you get the point.

Capt. Carter
www.shipofimagination.com

On Wednesday, October 5, 2022 at 10:12:07 AM EDT, elagusfil128@gmail.com <elagusfil128@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello! I have an Allmand Sail 31 sailboat and I removed its motor to convert it to electric. I would like to share my ideas and listen to recommendations from people with more experience before making purchases.

Engine:

I want to buy the 10KW or the 12KW thunderstruck-ev.com motor kit, I would like to know what you recommend.

When I removed the old motor I took out everything it had, including the cooler and the pump, the truth is that everything was in poor condition.

Now that I am going to buy the electric motor, if I choose the solution with liquid cooling I would have to buy the entire cooling system, and if I choose the air-cooled version it is not much of a problem because I have 2 new blowers that I was thinking of installing for an air conditioning but that idea was cancelled.

Does anyone have the 10KW air cooled motor? Have any problem?

I also plan to buy the support with the 2:1 reduction (although I don't know why when I go to buy it says 2.67:1?)

Batteries:

My idea is to build a battery bank with 16 Lifepo4 320 AH batteries and a 250A BMS. Read experiences about it?

Charger:

5000W Solar Inverter (already purchased)

It is this: https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803396031941.html

12V:

My idea is to have a common 12V battery and a DC-DC Converter that I already bought, this is the 60A version:

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832330206798.html

Thank you very much for your support, and I will tell you about the whole process here and also on my YouTube channel that I started to allocate to this project. Cheers!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkq-EcKeYjA&t=112s

I appreciate your subscription and like, which helps with the YouTube algorithm.

T-Pain Is On A Boat

Monday, October 31, 2022

Re: [electricboats] Elco vs ePropulsion

Re: [electricboats] Elco vs ePropulsion

Re: [electricboats] Elco vs ePropulsion

Re: [electricboats] Elco vs ePropulsion

Re: [electricboats] Elco vs ePropulsion

Re: [electricboats] Elco vs ePropulsion

Re: [electricboats] Elco vs ePropulsion

Re: [electricboats] Elco vs ePropulsion

[electricboats] Elco vs ePropulsion

Friday, October 28, 2022

Re: [electricboats] 3-5 Kw 48v motor

Re: [electricboats] 3-5 Kw 48v motor

Re: [electricboats] 3-5 Kw 48v motor

Re: [electricboats] 3-5 Kw 48v motor

[electricboats] 3-5 Kw 48v motor

Tuesday, October 18, 2022

Re: [electricboats] Maximum input voltage for outboard?

Monday, October 17, 2022

Re: [electricboats] Maximum input voltage for outboard?

Saturday, October 8, 2022

Re: [electricboats] Cutis 1238-5601 Motor controller failure.

Friday, October 7, 2022

Re: [electricboats] Cutis 1238-5601 Motor controller failure.

[electricboats] Cutis 1238-5601 Motor controller failure.

Thursday, October 6, 2022

Re: [electricboats] Mars motor and parts - free for pickup SF Bay Area

Re: [electricboats] Mars motor and parts - free for pickup SF Bay Area

[electricboats] Mars motor and parts - free for pickup SF Bay Area

Wednesday, October 5, 2022

Re: [electricboats] Converting an Allmand Sail 31 to electric

Re: [electricboats] Converting an Allmand Sail 31 to electric

Re: [electricboats] Converting an Allmand Sail 31 to electric

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