Re: [electricboats] Storage of LiFe PO4 Battery for 6 Months

Hi,

If they are j lifepi4 cell. They are best left at a 50 to 60% state of charge. They do not need to be fully charged although they will be OK if that left that way. That's the reason they don't usually come fully charged because they store better at a partial state of charge.

Mike Rll


Sent from AT&T Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Thursday, March 31, 2022, 8:01 AM, Ric Sanders <rsandersemail@gmail.com> wrote:

Lucas, 

Thank you for the link to Peter. Great information.

Ric Sanders.

On Wed, Mar 30, 2022, 4:31 PM Lucas Rockwell <lr@lucasrockwell.com> wrote:

I think the best advice is to ask the manufacturer, as they know best.

Failing the above, I would recommend leaving them all disconnected, and not on a charger (LiFePO4 batteries do not lose charge, and if they do, it is not permanent).

The one thing I will suggest with LiFePO4, regardless of whether or not they are being left for a long period of time: if they are not in their final configuration, completely cover (for instance, with electrical tape) the terminals on each battery. This is especially important for LiFePO4 batteries without an internal BMS. I learned this from the following, even though I have BattleBorn batteries with an internal BMS (better safe than sorry):

https://shop.pkys.com/smart-lithium-system-installation

-lucas

On Mar 30, 2022, at 4:11 PM, Draggett@live.com wrote:



I have recently purchased a bank of 8 LiFePO4 12v 100ah batteries for my sailboat. However progress on the refit is taking longer than I anticipated. I will be heading back to Canada from Florida shortly and would like to give the batteries the best chance at a long life. I'll be returning in 6 months and was wondering if anyone has any advice on how best to store thhe batteries to ensure longevity. They will be fully charged before I leave and will be kept in an air conditioned space at 78F for a Florida summer.

Should I leave them disconnected for the six months?
Should I connect them together in parallel and leave them.
Should I connect them in parallel and leave them on a 12v trickle charger?
Should I connect them into the configuration in which I'll be using them (48v) and leave them?
Should I connect them as above and leave them on a 48v charger?
Other storage strategy.

Any advice deeply appreciated.

 

Re: [electricboats] Storage of LiFe PO4 Battery for 6 Months

Lucas, 

Thank you for the link to Peter. Great information.

Ric Sanders.

On Wed, Mar 30, 2022, 4:31 PM Lucas Rockwell <lr@lucasrockwell.com> wrote:

I think the best advice is to ask the manufacturer, as they know best.

Failing the above, I would recommend leaving them all disconnected, and not on a charger (LiFePO4 batteries do not lose charge, and if they do, it is not permanent).

The one thing I will suggest with LiFePO4, regardless of whether or not they are being left for a long period of time: if they are not in their final configuration, completely cover (for instance, with electrical tape) the terminals on each battery. This is especially important for LiFePO4 batteries without an internal BMS. I learned this from the following, even though I have BattleBorn batteries with an internal BMS (better safe than sorry):

https://shop.pkys.com/smart-lithium-system-installation

-lucas

On Mar 30, 2022, at 4:11 PM, Draggett@live.com wrote:



I have recently purchased a bank of 8 LiFePO4 12v 100ah batteries for my sailboat. However progress on the refit is taking longer than I anticipated. I will be heading back to Canada from Florida shortly and would like to give the batteries the best chance at a long life. I'll be returning in 6 months and was wondering if anyone has any advice on how best to store thhe batteries to ensure longevity. They will be fully charged before I leave and will be kept in an air conditioned space at 78F for a Florida summer.

Should I leave them disconnected for the six months?
Should I connect them together in parallel and leave them.
Should I connect them in parallel and leave them on a 12v trickle charger?
Should I connect them into the configuration in which I'll be using them (48v) and leave them?
Should I connect them as above and leave them on a 48v charger?
Other storage strategy.

Any advice deeply appreciated.

 

_._,_._,_

---

Groups.io Links:

You receive all messages sent to this group.

View/Reply Online (#31876) | Reply To Group | Reply To Sender | Mute This Topic | New Topic
Your Subscription | Contact Group Owner | Unsubscribe [newarmyguitar24@gmail.com]

_._,_._,_

Re: [electricboats] Storage of LiFe PO4 Battery for 6 Months

I think the best advice is to ask the manufacturer, as they know best.

Failing the above, I would recommend leaving them all disconnected, and not on a charger (LiFePO4 batteries do not lose charge, and if they do, it is not permanent).

The one thing I will suggest with LiFePO4, regardless of whether or not they are being left for a long period of time: if they are not in their final configuration, completely cover (for instance, with electrical tape) the terminals on each battery. This is especially important for LiFePO4 batteries without an internal BMS. I learned this from the following, even though I have BattleBorn batteries with an internal BMS (better safe than sorry):

https://shop.pkys.com/smart-lithium-system-installation

-lucas

On Mar 30, 2022, at 4:11 PM, Draggett@live.com wrote:



I have recently purchased a bank of 8 LiFePO4 12v 100ah batteries for my sailboat. However progress on the refit is taking longer than I anticipated. I will be heading back to Canada from Florida shortly and would like to give the batteries the best chance at a long life. I'll be returning in 6 months and was wondering if anyone has any advice on how best to store thhe batteries to ensure longevity. They will be fully charged before I leave and will be kept in an air conditioned space at 78F for a Florida summer.

Should I leave them disconnected for the six months?
Should I connect them together in parallel and leave them.
Should I connect them in parallel and leave them on a 12v trickle charger?
Should I connect them into the configuration in which I'll be using them (48v) and leave them?
Should I connect them as above and leave them on a 48v charger?
Other storage strategy.

Any advice deeply appreciated.

 

Re: [electricboats] Storage of LiFe PO4 Battery for 6 Months

The devil is in the details.

Got an online link to the specs for these batteries to share?

From your simple description, it sounds as if these are LiFePO4 "boxes" with embedded battery cell management electronics.  As such, you likely cannot disable these "managers" from sucking power for months.  Some such embedded electronics will fully deplete its own LiFePO4 battery within 2 years, or even within months.  I have seen this---we had some 30 LiFePO4 12v boxes (7ah only) that had sat "new in box" in storage and every single one of them (at $120 a pop) was dead and unrecoverable due to the onboard cell manangement electronics killing them.

 

IFF you are able to disable such electronics while you are gone for months, then separate all your batteries and disable the BMS.  Likely you have no access to do so.  And so, you need the specs.  Now, probably a "box" with 100ah capacity would not lose much capacity at all in 6mos or even 2 years…nothing like a 7ah capacity situation.

And so, you can probably just charge these up 50 to 80% or so and leave them for months.

Charging to 100% may be okay, but sitting for months at this level may cut down on the life of the batteries.

Leaving these on a "trickle" or connected to any other charge setup shouldn't be necessary unless the specs suggest that it is wise to do so.  I'd guess that most of these box lithium batteries allow steady "trickle" overcharge currents since they are designed to bypass when the box voltage gets above something like 16v.

 

Good luck.

 

-MT

 

From: electricboats@groups.io [mailto:electricboats@groups.io] On Behalf Of Draggett@live.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2022 1:11 PM
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: [electricboats] Storage of LiFe PO4 Battery for 6 Months

 

I have recently purchased a bank of 8 LiFePO4 12v 100ah batteries for my sailboat. However progress on the refit is taking longer than I anticipated. I will be heading back to Canada from Florida shortly and would like to give the batteries the best chance at a long life. I'll be returning in 6 months and was wondering if anyone has any advice on how best to store thhe batteries to ensure longevity. They will be fully charged before I leave and will be kept in an air conditioned space at 78F for a Florida summer.

Should I leave them disconnected for the six months?
Should I connect them together in parallel and leave them.
Should I connect them in parallel and leave them on a 12v trickle charger?
Should I connect them into the configuration in which I'll be using them (48v) and leave them?
Should I connect them as above and leave them on a 48v charger?
Other storage strategy.

Any advice deeply appreciated.

 

Re: [electricboats] Storage of LiFe PO4 Battery for 6 Months

They store better at around 3.4v each and just unplugged.  I stored 16 for over 2 years that way in Ak with temp down to 5F.  They have very low internal resistance so it takes a very long time to discharge,

 

From: electricboats@groups.io <electricboats@groups.io> On Behalf Of Draggett@live.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2022 3:11 PM
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: [electricboats] Storage of LiFe PO4 Battery for 6 Months

 

I have recently purchased a bank of 8 LiFePO4 12v 100ah batteries for my sailboat. However progress on the refit is taking longer than I anticipated. I will be heading back to Canada from Florida shortly and would like to give the batteries the best chance at a long life. I'll be returning in 6 months and was wondering if anyone has any advice on how best to store thhe batteries to ensure longevity. They will be fully charged before I leave and will be kept in an air conditioned space at 78F for a Florida summer.

Should I leave them disconnected for the six months?
Should I connect them together in parallel and leave them.
Should I connect them in parallel and leave them on a 12v trickle charger?
Should I connect them into the configuration in which I'll be using them (48v) and leave them?
Should I connect them as above and leave them on a 48v charger?
Other storage strategy.

Any advice deeply appreciated.

 

[electricboats] Storage of LiFe PO4 Battery for 6 Months

I have recently purchased a bank of 8 LiFePO4 12v 100ah batteries for my sailboat. However progress on the refit is taking longer than I anticipated. I will be heading back to Canada from Florida shortly and would like to give the batteries the best chance at a long life. I’ll be returning in 6 months and was wondering if anyone has any advice on how best to store thhe batteries to ensure longevity. They will be fully charged before I leave and will be kept in an air conditioned space at 78F for a Florida summer.

Should I leave them disconnected for the six months?
Should I connect them together in parallel and leave them.
Should I connect them in parallel and leave them on a 12v trickle charger?
Should I connect them into the configuration in which I’ll be using them (48v) and leave them?
Should I connect them as above and leave them on a 48v charger?
Other storage strategy.

Any advice deeply appreciated.

 

_._,_._,_

---

Groups.io Links:

You receive all messages sent to this group.

View/Reply Online (#31872) | Reply To Group | Reply To Sender | Mute This Topic | New Topic
Your Subscription | Contact Group Owner | Unsubscribe [newarmyguitar24@gmail.com]

_._,_._,_

Re: [electricboats] advice not on sailing boat

I would consider lithium batters only 48 volt bank the prices are coming down and the last longer .

I think you should really look at the sail boat system there bench marks are way more geared to hill speed or slower

Here is a video I made of how I figured out what I had and need
Right wrong or indifferent this works for my little boat 22 footer
DIY Electric Inboard -Tails of Speed, Torque, and Prop Pitch
https://youtu.be/FvGr-QJ6FGQ
> On Mar 7, 2022, at 5:48 PM, Matthew Geier <matthew@sleeper.apana.org.au> wrote:
>
> On 8/3/22 05:37, looije@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> dear knowledgable members,
>> with pleasure i've read your interesting, thorough and often detailed post - what a joy to see so much expertise. i hope I could make use of that knowledge and ask for advice and recommendations on my little boat.
>>
> I converted a 5m fiberglass half-cabin 'launch' of similar hull shape. Mine previously had a 5.5hp 2-stroke 2 cylinder petrol engine.
>
> https://www.sleeper.apana.org.au/boat/
>
> I did the conversion over 10 years ago now, so the tech has matured more now. In particular there are multiple repower kits now available. Focused on sail auxiliaries, but an inboard is an inboard.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group.
View/Reply Online (#31871): https://groups.io/g/electricboats/message/31871
Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/89620085/3360820
Group Owner: electricboats+owner@groups.io
Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/electricboats/leave/6293187/3360820/430022002/xyzzy [newarmyguitar24@gmail.com]
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Re: [electricboats] advice not on sailing boat

On 8/3/22 05:37, looije@gmail.com wrote:
>
> dear knowledgable members,
> with pleasure i've read your interesting, thorough and often detailed
> post - what a joy to see so much expertise. i hope I could make use of
> that knowledge and ask for advice and recommendations on my little boat.
>
I converted a 5m fiberglass half-cabin 'launch' of similar hull shape.
Mine previously had a 5.5hp 2-stroke 2 cylinder petrol engine.

https://www.sleeper.apana.org.au/boat/

I did the conversion over 10 years ago now, so the tech has matured more
now. In particular there are multiple repower kits now available.
Focused on sail auxiliaries, but an inboard is an inboard.




-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group.
View/Reply Online (#31870): https://groups.io/g/electricboats/message/31870
Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/89620085/3360820
Group Owner: electricboats+owner@groups.io
Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/electricboats/leave/6293187/3360820/430022002/xyzzy [newarmyguitar24@gmail.com]
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

[electricboats] advice not on sailing boat

dear knowledgable members,
with pleasure i've read your interesting, thorough and often detailed post - what a joy to see so much expertise. i hope I could make use of that knowledge and ask for advice and recommendations on my little boat.


I is a small boat in the canals in amsterdam, just take it out to go cruise along the canals and sometime cross the IJ river for a restaurant/swim/friends on the North side of Amsterdam. 

It's a former safety boat, presumably built around 1920, riveted steel. 5,5m/18ft long, 5,2m/17ft at the waterline. she is aprox 1.85m / 6ft wide at the widest point. Guesses are about 1 ton without engine etc. These are some speed test i did a while ago;



Now powered by an old 21HP 3cylinder diesel i'm looking to change to electric this year. (Amsterdam city government issued rules to ban all diesel engines from the city centre by 2025).

I usually have trips of 3-4 hours, that may include the 20 minute full-power (about 11 kmh) trip to the North of Amsterdam (and 20 minutes back). Most of the time i cruise 6-7 kmh (3.5 knots?).
I maybe have 20-ish trips a year, also of 1,5-2hours, so say 50 hours a year - all in all an expensive hobby, but with friend on the canals, with a beer or wine and some snacks, cruising to the take-away pizza on the canal, romantic candlelight tours - it makes it worth it (well as long as you can help me do this electrification....)
The boat is docked next to my houseboat so charging is no problem.

no need for a lot of power but i do need be able to break quickly and have some manoeuvre power, also when i have 8 friends on board.

I was hoping on some recommendations on;

1. power estimates the engine
2. direct on ax or via belt (what happens with an emergency brake?)
3. how to mount/install, on the current engine mounts with or without the rubbers (need a custom made frame) 
4. what kind of propellor (don't know what i have now)
5. brushless or are older/cheaper engines an option considering my hours/year.
6. power need on 6-7kmh vs hullspeed (10,4? kmh); is if fair to say that at 6-7kmh poweruse is only 30% of the energy that is needed for the hull speed?
7. what kind of batteries would be advisable for me. the boat is in the water (and could be on power) all year. In Amsterdam it it maybe 10 nights a year freezing a bit, never more then -10 Celcius

I've seen the kits from https://www.kit-elec-shop.com and https://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/ but wonder if they are my only (affordable) choice, and, cautious about how to mount them.
I realise most of the converstaions here have been on sailboats and mine is different, still i hope you can educate me with your expertise,

Thanks,
Elwin

_._,_._,_

---

Groups.io Links:

You receive all messages sent to this group.

View/Reply Online (#31869) | Reply To Group | Reply To Sender | Mute This Topic | New Topic
Your Subscription | Contact Group Owner | Unsubscribe [newarmyguitar24@gmail.com]

_._,_._,_