Thanks Matt
Very interesting!
I have a customer with an interesting use for an electric motor. Basically as a helper motor to be used in tandem with a Diesel engine when running against very strong currents and as the main drive during light use times .
I'll have to do some more research and figure out the exact case and do a new post but I will be looking forward to your response.
> On Oct 28, 2021, at 3:51 PM, Ken Winokur <kenwphoto@gmail.com> wrote:
>
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group.
View/Reply Online (#31697): https://groups.io/g/electricboats/message/31697
Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/82712249/3360820
Group Owner: electricboats+owner@groups.io
Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/electricboats/leave/6293187/3360820/430022002/xyzzy [newarmyguitar24@gmail.com]
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Friday, October 29, 2021
Re: [electricboats] Electric Sailboat Ride
Hi Ken,
See attached.
Not proportional. I imagine this is partly due to the Autoprop maximizing thrust at any rpm.
Matt Foley
Sunlight Conversions
Perpetual Energy, LLC
201-914-0466
On Thursday, October 28, 2021, 04:40:26 PM EDT, Ken Winokur <kenwphoto@gmail.com> wrote:
Do you track your rpm and did it remain constant as the speed increases?
On Oct 28, 2021, at 2:01 PM, Matt Foley <matt@sunlightconversions.com> wrote:
See attachedFinally getting around posting the stats. Missing some data points, but you will get the point. Note, the wattage measurement on the 1803/Curtis setup are from the controller. Add about 10% for overall system wattage.O'Day 31Length at waterline 25' 7inBeam 10' 9inDraft "5'3in deep, 4' shoal"Displacement "10,100, 10,400 shoal"My original setup was direct drive with a Saietta 7.5kw, 4QD controller and a 12"x7 propNew setup ME1803 8.1kw, Curtis 1236SE, 16" Brunton Autorpop. First try was 2:1 reduction. I was hitting my amp limit at 6.1 knots. Changed to a 3.26:1. That allowed me to kit 7knots at 9000 watts.10.2kwh lifepo4. 51.2 nominal.Matt FoleySunlight ConversionsPerpetual Energy, LLC201-914-0466On Monday, May 10, 2021, 04:28:08 PM EDT, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@pfeiffer.net> wrote:Thanks for the details.
I have a feathering prop (J Prop) and to get it to feather with the diesel I would shut the motor down in forward, shift to reverse, then back to neutral. It would then stay feathered in neutral. If you went from forward to neutral without first going to reverse it would continue to spin. I am hoping to be able to do the equivalent procedure with the electric to get the prop to feather. But I will have to take care not to shock the prop in the process. I will experiment with making it "invisible" which may offer lower drag than feathered due to the relatively large angle of the prop shaft from horizontal in my case (15 deg). But that will not be an option for racing which I do on a somewhat casual basis.
The same should be true for a Max Prop but the Autoprop is a different (and very interesting) beast.
I think that ME 1803 is the motor that Beta Marine is using in their new parallel hybrid system.
https://betamarine.co.uk/he-hybrid-propulsion/
What are you doing for the thrust bearing with the ME1803?
I'll be interested in hearing about your reduction gear experience. I was planning to start with 3:1 myself. This is in a Pearson 10M (33'), 13,000 lbs, ME1616 motor, 18" J Prop, 14kWh LiFePo4, 48V. 3:1 will get me a max prop RPM of 800. I have planned for some flexibility in the drive belt pulley sizing and the prop is variable pitch. I am deep into fabricating all the mountings for the motor, reduction drive and thrust bearing. I hope to be on the water in a few weeks.
Thanks, Dan Pfeiffer
On 2021-05-10 2:41 pm, Matt Foley wrote:
Hi Dan,My old motor was a Saietta. Basically identical to the Thoosa. New motor is a Motenergy ME1803.I don't recall the specs but the Saietta has a thrust bearing that can handle many many times more than thrust generated by the prop.Yes, prop needs to be locked in place. Havn't put much thought into it. If I was crossing oceans it would be a different story, but my for my use case, I find myself motor sailing most of the time and if wanted to make the prop invisible it doesn't take much power at all. If I wanted to get fancy, it should be possible lock the shaft electronically through the controllerIn a few weeks ill have data for old vs new setup and variations of the new setup.Matt FoleySunlight ConversionsPerpetual Energy, LLC201-914-0466On Monday, May 10, 2021, 02:59:01 PM EDT, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@pfeiffer.net> wrote:Do you need to lock the prop shaft to get the Autoprop to feather for sailing? If so how do you plan to do that?
What motor is that? Looks like a Thoosa? Is there a thrust bearing in the motor?
Do you have any performance data to share? Knots vs Watts?
Thanks, Dan Pfeiffer<RiverRyder Saietta vs ME1803.pdf>
Re: [electricboats] Elco outboards
I had a 6 hp Tohatsu 4-stroke for years. Great motor.
They now also have a 5-hp propane-fueled 4-stroke. I may go with one of them if I can't get a suitable electric outboard by spring.
/
Greg DeCowsky ☠
Sent from my AyePhone®
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group.
View/Reply Online (#31695): https://groups.io/g/electricboats/message/31695
Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/84229010/3360820
Group Owner: electricboats+owner@groups.io
Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/electricboats/leave/6293187/3360820/430022002/xyzzy [newarmyguitar24@gmail.com]
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
They now also have a 5-hp propane-fueled 4-stroke. I may go with one of them if I can't get a suitable electric outboard by spring.
/
Greg DeCowsky ☠
Sent from my AyePhone®
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group.
View/Reply Online (#31695): https://groups.io/g/electricboats/message/31695
Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/84229010/3360820
Group Owner: electricboats+owner@groups.io
Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/electricboats/leave/6293187/3360820/430022002/xyzzy [newarmyguitar24@gmail.com]
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Re: [electricboats] Elco outboards
So I picked up a Mercury (Tohatsu rebadge) 6hp 4 stroke to use until I can get the electric config delivered and set up. The boat runs beautifully, with a top speed of 17mph solo, and about 13mph with a passenger. Easy cruise is 10-12 mph, with the motor getting 25-30 mpg at that rate (30 mpg solo, 25 mpg with passenger and some gear). It can be driven at any speed desired (no 'step' to planing speed).
If the little motor wasn't so noisy and rough I'd be tempted to just stick with gas power, but the prospect of quieter, smoother, cleaner electric propulsion is still very appealing, if I ever get the components delivered!
Will update again when I've got the electrification complete.
Neil
_._,_._,_
Groups.io Links:
You receive all messages sent to this group.
View/Reply Online (#31694) | Reply To Group | Reply To Sender | Mute This Topic | New Topic
Your Subscription | Contact Group Owner | Unsubscribe [newarmyguitar24@gmail.com]
_._,_._,_
Thursday, October 28, 2021
Re: [electricboats] Electric Sailboat Ride
Nice.
And another set of datapoints validating what we typically see: For every knot, double your power.
-MT
From: electricboats@groups.io [mailto:electricboats@groups.io] On Behalf Of Matt Foley
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2021 11:01 AM
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: Re: [electricboats] Electric Sailboat Ride
See attached
Finally getting around posting the stats. Missing some data points, but you will get the point. Note, the wattage measurement on the 1803/Curtis setup are from the controller. Add about 10% for overall system wattage.
O'Day 31
Length at waterline 25' 7in
Beam 10' 9in
Draft "5'3in deep, 4' shoal"
Displacement "10,100, 10,400 shoal"
My original setup was direct drive with a Saietta 7.5kw, 4QD controller and a 12"x7 prop
New setup ME1803 8.1kw, Curtis 1236SE, 16" Brunton Autorpop. First try was 2:1 reduction. I was hitting my amp limit at 6.1 knots. Changed to a 3.26:1. That allowed me to kit 7knots at 9000 watts.
10.2kwh lifepo4. 51.2 nominal.
Matt Foley
Sunlight Conversions
Perpetual Energy, LLC
201-914-0466
On Monday, May 10, 2021, 04:28:08 PM EDT, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@pfeiffer.net> wrote:
Thanks for the details.
I have a feathering prop (J Prop) and to get it to feather with the diesel I would shut the motor down in forward, shift to reverse, then back to neutral. It would then stay feathered in neutral. If you went from forward to neutral without first going to reverse it would continue to spin. I am hoping to be able to do the equivalent procedure with the electric to get the prop to feather. But I will have to take care not to shock the prop in the process. I will experiment with making it "invisible" which may offer lower drag than feathered due to the relatively large angle of the prop shaft from horizontal in my case (15 deg). But that will not be an option for racing which I do on a somewhat casual basis.
The same should be true for a Max Prop but the Autoprop is a different (and very interesting) beast.
I think that ME 1803 is the motor that Beta Marine is using in their new parallel hybrid system.
https://betamarine.co.uk/he-hybrid-propulsion/
What are you doing for the thrust bearing with the ME1803?
I'll be interested in hearing about your reduction gear experience. I was planning to start with 3:1 myself. This is in a Pearson 10M (33'), 13,000 lbs, ME1616 motor, 18" J Prop, 14kWh LiFePo4, 48V. 3:1 will get me a max prop RPM of 800. I have planned for some flexibility in the drive belt pulley sizing and the prop is variable pitch. I am deep into fabricating all the mountings for the motor, reduction drive and thrust bearing. I hope to be on the water in a few weeks.
Thanks, Dan Pfeiffer
On 2021-05-10 2:41 pm, Matt Foley wrote:
Hi Dan,
My old motor was a Saietta. Basically identical to the Thoosa. New motor is a Motenergy ME1803.
I don't recall the specs but the Saietta has a thrust bearing that can handle many many times more than thrust generated by the prop.
Yes, prop needs to be locked in place. Havn't put much thought into it. If I was crossing oceans it would be a different story, but my for my use case, I find myself motor sailing most of the time and if wanted to make the prop invisible it doesn't take much power at all. If I wanted to get fancy, it should be possible lock the shaft electronically through the controller
In a few weeks ill have data for old vs new setup and variations of the new setup.
Matt Foley
Sunlight Conversions
Perpetual Energy, LLC
201-914-0466
On Monday, May 10, 2021, 02:59:01 PM EDT, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@pfeiffer.net> wrote:
Do you need to lock the prop shaft to get the Autoprop to feather for sailing? If so how do you plan to do that?
What motor is that? Looks like a Thoosa? Is there a thrust bearing in the motor?
Do you have any performance data to share? Knots vs Watts?
Thanks, Dan Pfeiffer
Re: [electricboats] Electric Sailboat Ride
Do you track your rpm and did it remain constant as the speed increases?
On Oct 28, 2021, at 2:01 PM, Matt Foley <matt@sunlightconversions.com> wrote:
See attachedFinally getting around posting the stats. Missing some data points, but you will get the point. Note, the wattage measurement on the 1803/Curtis setup are from the controller. Add about 10% for overall system wattage.O'Day 31Length at waterline 25' 7inBeam 10' 9inDraft "5'3in deep, 4' shoal"Displacement "10,100, 10,400 shoal"My original setup was direct drive with a Saietta 7.5kw, 4QD controller and a 12"x7 propNew setup ME1803 8.1kw, Curtis 1236SE, 16" Brunton Autorpop. First try was 2:1 reduction. I was hitting my amp limit at 6.1 knots. Changed to a 3.26:1. That allowed me to kit 7knots at 9000 watts.10.2kwh lifepo4. 51.2 nominal.Matt FoleySunlight ConversionsPerpetual Energy, LLC201-914-0466On Monday, May 10, 2021, 04:28:08 PM EDT, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@pfeiffer.net> wrote:Thanks for the details.
I have a feathering prop (J Prop) and to get it to feather with the diesel I would shut the motor down in forward, shift to reverse, then back to neutral. It would then stay feathered in neutral. If you went from forward to neutral without first going to reverse it would continue to spin. I am hoping to be able to do the equivalent procedure with the electric to get the prop to feather. But I will have to take care not to shock the prop in the process. I will experiment with making it "invisible" which may offer lower drag than feathered due to the relatively large angle of the prop shaft from horizontal in my case (15 deg). But that will not be an option for racing which I do on a somewhat casual basis.
The same should be true for a Max Prop but the Autoprop is a different (and very interesting) beast.
I think that ME 1803 is the motor that Beta Marine is using in their new parallel hybrid system.
https://betamarine.co.uk/he-hybrid-propulsion/
What are you doing for the thrust bearing with the ME1803?
I'll be interested in hearing about your reduction gear experience. I was planning to start with 3:1 myself. This is in a Pearson 10M (33'), 13,000 lbs, ME1616 motor, 18" J Prop, 14kWh LiFePo4, 48V. 3:1 will get me a max prop RPM of 800. I have planned for some flexibility in the drive belt pulley sizing and the prop is variable pitch. I am deep into fabricating all the mountings for the motor, reduction drive and thrust bearing. I hope to be on the water in a few weeks.
Thanks, Dan Pfeiffer
On 2021-05-10 2:41 pm, Matt Foley wrote:
Hi Dan,My old motor was a Saietta. Basically identical to the Thoosa. New motor is a Motenergy ME1803.I don't recall the specs but the Saietta has a thrust bearing that can handle many many times more than thrust generated by the prop.Yes, prop needs to be locked in place. Havn't put much thought into it. If I was crossing oceans it would be a different story, but my for my use case, I find myself motor sailing most of the time and if wanted to make the prop invisible it doesn't take much power at all. If I wanted to get fancy, it should be possible lock the shaft electronically through the controllerIn a few weeks ill have data for old vs new setup and variations of the new setup.Matt FoleySunlight ConversionsPerpetual Energy, LLC201-914-0466On Monday, May 10, 2021, 02:59:01 PM EDT, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@pfeiffer.net> wrote:Do you need to lock the prop shaft to get the Autoprop to feather for sailing? If so how do you plan to do that?
What motor is that? Looks like a Thoosa? Is there a thrust bearing in the motor?
Do you have any performance data to share? Knots vs Watts?
Thanks, Dan Pfeiffer<RiverRyder Saietta vs ME1803.pdf>
Re: [electricboats] Electric Sailboat Ride
See attached
Finally getting around posting the stats. Missing some data points, but you will get the point. Note, the wattage measurement on the 1803/Curtis setup are from the controller. Add about 10% for overall system wattage.
O'Day 31
Length at waterline 25' 7in
Beam 10' 9in
Draft "5'3in deep, 4' shoal"
Displacement "10,100, 10,400 shoal"
My original setup was direct drive with a Saietta 7.5kw, 4QD controller and a 12"x7 prop
New setup ME1803 8.1kw, Curtis 1236SE, 16" Brunton Autorpop. First try was 2:1 reduction. I was hitting my amp limit at 6.1 knots. Changed to a 3.26:1. That allowed me to kit 7knots at 9000 watts.
10.2kwh lifepo4. 51.2 nominal.
Matt Foley
Sunlight Conversions
Perpetual Energy, LLC
201-914-0466
On Monday, May 10, 2021, 04:28:08 PM EDT, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@pfeiffer.net> wrote:
Thanks for the details.
I have a feathering prop (J Prop) and to get it to feather with the diesel I would shut the motor down in forward, shift to reverse, then back to neutral. It would then stay feathered in neutral. If you went from forward to neutral without first going to reverse it would continue to spin. I am hoping to be able to do the equivalent procedure with the electric to get the prop to feather. But I will have to take care not to shock the prop in the process. I will experiment with making it "invisible" which may offer lower drag than feathered due to the relatively large angle of the prop shaft from horizontal in my case (15 deg). But that will not be an option for racing which I do on a somewhat casual basis.
The same should be true for a Max Prop but the Autoprop is a different (and very interesting) beast.
I think that ME 1803 is the motor that Beta Marine is using in their new parallel hybrid system.
https://betamarine.co.uk/he-hybrid-propulsion/
What are you doing for the thrust bearing with the ME1803?
I'll be interested in hearing about your reduction gear experience. I was planning to start with 3:1 myself. This is in a Pearson 10M (33'), 13,000 lbs, ME1616 motor, 18" J Prop, 14kWh LiFePo4, 48V. 3:1 will get me a max prop RPM of 800. I have planned for some flexibility in the drive belt pulley sizing and the prop is variable pitch. I am deep into fabricating all the mountings for the motor, reduction drive and thrust bearing. I hope to be on the water in a few weeks.
Thanks, Dan Pfeiffer
On 2021-05-10 2:41 pm, Matt Foley wrote:
Hi Dan,My old motor was a Saietta. Basically identical to the Thoosa. New motor is a Motenergy ME1803.I don't recall the specs but the Saietta has a thrust bearing that can handle many many times more than thrust generated by the prop.Yes, prop needs to be locked in place. Havn't put much thought into it. If I was crossing oceans it would be a different story, but my for my use case, I find myself motor sailing most of the time and if wanted to make the prop invisible it doesn't take much power at all. If I wanted to get fancy, it should be possible lock the shaft electronically through the controllerIn a few weeks ill have data for old vs new setup and variations of the new setup.Matt FoleySunlight ConversionsPerpetual Energy, LLC201-914-0466On Monday, May 10, 2021, 02:59:01 PM EDT, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@pfeiffer.net> wrote:Do you need to lock the prop shaft to get the Autoprop to feather for sailing? If so how do you plan to do that?
What motor is that? Looks like a Thoosa? Is there a thrust bearing in the motor?
Do you have any performance data to share? Knots vs Watts?
Thanks, Dan Pfeiffer
Saturday, October 9, 2021
Re: [electricboats] Finally Starting The Build
Thanks so much for this. Very helpful.
Sent via phone and big thumbs
On Oct 8, 2021, at 3:16 PM, Randy Cain <randylcain@gmail.com> wrote:
Here is a profile drawing that shows the insulator in relation to the grub screw stud, terminal and lock nut, a rendering of the terminal without the insulator, a rendering with the insulator, and a .stl file for 3D printing. The height needs to be adjusted for the particular use due to different bars, lugs, etc. It's trivial to do that.
When we print them, we print a group of 16 all at once, repeating it 4 time for all 64 terminals on your battery.
Hope this helps!
<Insulator Profile.png><Terminal Without Insulator.png><Terminal With Insulator.png><Insulator.stl>
Friday, October 8, 2021
Re: [electricboats] Finally Starting The Build
Here is a profile drawing that shows the insulator in relation to the grub screw stud, terminal and lock nut, a rendering of the terminal without the insulator, a rendering with the insulator, and a .stl file for 3D printing. The height needs to be adjusted for the particular use due to different bars, lugs, etc. It's trivial to do that.
When we print them, we print a group of 16 all at once, repeating it 4 time for all 64 terminals on your battery.
Hope this helps!
_._,_._,_
Groups.io Links:
You receive all messages sent to this group.
View/Reply Online (#31689) | Reply To Group | Reply To Sender | Mute This Topic | New Topic
Your Subscription | Contact Group Owner | Unsubscribe [newarmyguitar24@gmail.com]
_._,_._,_
Re: [electricboats] Finally Starting The Build
I'm still working on mine too. Here's a rendering of where I'm going. I'd be glad to print up enough insulators for a fellow battery builder! Send me an email at randylcain@gmail.com as there are some size details to pin down. I'll upload a drawing that shows a section profile.
Groups.io Links:
_._,_._,_
Groups.io Links:
You receive all messages sent to this group.
View/Reply Online (#31688) | Reply To Group | Reply To Sender | Mute This Topic | New Topic
Your Subscription | Contact Group Owner | Unsubscribe [newarmyguitar24@gmail.com]
_._,_._,_
Thursday, October 7, 2021
Re: [electricboats] Finally Starting The Build
I ended up ordering 32 of the 3.2v 280ah LiFePo4's you have here. Looking forward to putting them together later this winter. I like the ideas you and Dan have been bandying about. If you have one... can you send a picture of your set up once the busbars and BMW wires are connected. In particular would like to see a close up of how you "insulated" the terminals. I don't have a 3D printer but could get someone to do it... or I could probably figure out a different way to insulate with plastic sheaves and washers, if I understand correctly what you are trying to accomplish with 3D printing. Thanks.
Groups.io Links:
_._,_._,_
Groups.io Links:
You receive all messages sent to this group.
View/Reply Online (#31687) | Reply To Group | Reply To Sender | Mute This Topic | New Topic
Your Subscription | Contact Group Owner | Unsubscribe [newarmyguitar24@gmail.com]
_._,_._,_
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)