Friday, September 30, 2016

Re: [Electric Boats] Re: adding electric drive to existing diesel engine

 

King, that's a encouraging DIY story. On my fixed income I'm looking to cobble together an eboat. As far as solar with limited space is concerned it makes sense to shop for the highest efficiency panels. 21% efficient panels were on sale for less than $1/watt but I'm not sure currently. 
 I practiced on my motorhome and got 2500 watts on the roof and a hinged solar awning on the side. Yes, it is cooler in the summer. 

Jeremy

On Sep 30, 2016, at 9:48 AM, king_of_neworleans <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Well, I did my conversion for what... about  $2100 or a bit more, after deducting for the $400 I got from selling the old Atomic. That includes a 10.56 kw/hr battery bank. To be fair, though, I didn't really use a kit per se though I did buy the original controller mounted on an aluminum plate with contactor, fuse block, etc installed. And now, I see that if I had been willing to go with a brushed motor, I could have gone even cheaper. My boat was mine for $2k, and I don't regret spending that small amount of money for the conversion. No way I would have spent over $3k on it, though. A well designed turnkey system will beat the pants off most DIY jobs, and is probably the way to go with a nicer boat.  But I am okay with the performance I get from my DIY e-boat, and I could care less about the resale value. I got my money's worth out of it just from living aboard instead of paying for an apartment or house, not to mention the many days and nights spent tootling along out on Lake Pontchartrain with clean and convenient electric power. I could have waited until like "never", to buy a hull worthy of a $6k electric drive setup, but I chose to do what I could with what I could get, instead of just daydreaming about it, and it worked. Quite well, actually, for what I spent. Now, I am looking at putting up a solar canopy over the entire boat, and adding a second battery bank. Sure, one big bank is better than two little (well, not so little, actually) ones, but I did what I COULD do, instead of what I SHOULD do. To paraphrase, "Wish in one hand, repower a boat in the other, and see which one fills up the quickest." I hope to end up with about 2kw of solar. Shade and electricity, both from one modification. Sails? Oh, I gave those away, and mast, boom, and wire.

I wouldn't discourage a DIY'er with a basket case boat from having a go at electrifying. It is do-able and practical, and can cost considerably less than that new suit of sails. And it is kinda fun.

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[Electric Boats] Re: adding electric drive to existing diesel engine

 

Well, I did my conversion for what... about  $2100 or a bit more, after deducting for the $400 I got from selling the old Atomic. That includes a 10.56 kw/hr battery bank. To be fair, though, I didn't really use a kit per se though I did buy the original controller mounted on an aluminum plate with contactor, fuse block, etc installed. And now, I see that if I had been willing to go with a brushed motor, I could have gone even cheaper. My boat was mine for $2k, and I don't regret spending that small amount of money for the conversion. No way I would have spent over $3k on it, though. A well designed turnkey system will beat the pants off most DIY jobs, and is probably the way to go with a nicer boat.  But I am okay with the performance I get from my DIY e-boat, and I could care less about the resale value. I got my money's worth out of it just from living aboard instead of paying for an apartment or house, not to mention the many days and nights spent tootling along out on Lake Pontchartrain with clean and convenient electric power. I could have waited until like "never", to buy a hull worthy of a $6k electric drive setup, but I chose to do what I could with what I could get, instead of just daydreaming about it, and it worked. Quite well, actually, for what I spent. Now, I am looking at putting up a solar canopy over the entire boat, and adding a second battery bank. Sure, one big bank is better than two little (well, not so little, actually) ones, but I did what I COULD do, instead of what I SHOULD do. To paraphrase, "Wish in one hand, repower a boat in the other, and see which one fills up the quickest." I hope to end up with about 2kw of solar. Shade and electricity, both from one modification. Sails? Oh, I gave those away, and mast, boom, and wire.

I wouldn't discourage a DIY'er with a basket case boat from having a go at electrifying. It is do-able and practical, and can cost considerably less than that new suit of sails. And it is kinda fun.

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[Electric Boats] US Sailing Show Annapolis MD 10/6 through 10/10/16

 

The best sailboat show in North America.  The US Sailing Show at City Docks Annapolis MD will start next week from Thursday 10/6 though Monday 10/10.  This is a unique opportunity to to see the best of the US electric marine propulsion companies.  I know of two marine propulsion dealers who will be displaying: Annapolis Hybrid Marine and eMarine Systems.

Marine electric propulsion products from these companies and others will be present:
Electric Yacht
Fisher Panda
OceanVolt
Polar Power
Thoosa
Torqeedo
Watt Fuel Cells

I know that there will be solar, wind generators, genset, batteries, and chargers systems from the many manufactures. I will be there and would hope that many of you will make the show.  If you attend, share what you learn with the rest of the group.

Mike
Electric Yachts of Southern California


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Posted by: mike@electricyachtssocal.com
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[Electric Boats] Re: adding electric drive to existing diesel engine

 

Mike,
The economic decision is different than the engineering and hard cost required to make it work.  We absolutely agree that it does not make economic sense to spend $6k on a $3k boat.  The real costs for us to produce this motor exceeds the value of this boat.  Can you do it with a DIY kit for less is questionable as we know how much engineering it takes and even at a very low margin, it may not be an economically viable product. Not much margin on the all electric either.  The costs is the cost and if you do not do it right you may damage the lower end of your diesel (bearings) and thus truly reduce the value of the $3 boat.

I have owned 4 electric boats and two non electric boat.  I am involved with about 400 clients who have installed Electric Yacht systems in the last 6 years.  I have a good idea of the value of a quality electric sailboat in the resale market. I am not sure the long term value proposition for the DIY conversions and wonder what the market value such a conversion.  Even the marine electric companies have their issues with SolidNav, Glaser Bay, Solomon Technologies Inc, and likely others out there that left their stain on the "electric sailboat motor". 

I suggest you do it right or not at all, spend the money on sails.
Mike
Electric Yachts of Southern California

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Re: [Electric Boats] Re: adding electric drive to existing diesel engine

 

One additional point to consider if adding onto an Atomic 4 is the risk of turning the engine over without starting it and mechanically driving water into the system until it backs up into the cylinders and then into the oil. Usually that colamity results from cranking an engine that won't start, but you could get to the same point if you drive the shaft with your electric motor and it"slips" into gear while the key is off, preventing it from starting. 


David

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Posted by: dcsavitzky@gmail.com
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Thursday, September 29, 2016

Re: [Electric Boats] Recommendations on solar

 

The Midnite Solar Kid MPPT charge controller is designed for boats and is available in a marine rated unit. It is so so rated for high voltage input (150 Volts, 162 Volts max) and since you have a 48 volt battery you will need that. 
 We get a lot, most, of our panels from Sun Electric out of Miami. Best selection and prices we've seen. They have Grade A and Grade B ( cosmetic defect) panels. Great for DIY on a budget.  
 Since space is limited on boats it's worth looking for the highest efficiency modules one can afford. 
 Which reminds me of a story: I used to check the Bellingham Craigslist every week for solar panels. I bought a solar disconnect from a guy who bought a gigantic unfinished yacht from a estate auction and listed the 6 solar panels on craigslist for $100 each. I would very likely have bought them if I had checked that week. Well, they didn't sell so he put them on eBay. When he checked the listing it was up to $32000. They sold for $$50000. They were NASA Boron panels or something like that. Ugh, lol, The one that got away!

Roadtrip Jeremy

On Sep 29, 2016, at 1:26 PM, scottcoo@gmail.com [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

I need to switch my boat over to solar charging of the 48v bank for motoring, and the 12v cabin stuff.  I will not have shore power at the new marina.  Anyone have recommendations on solar panels and charge controllers?


I have (4) 12v 105AH in series for the motor (48v), and a 12v 55AH for cabin.  I am hoping that solar will work  to keep the batteries topped up.  I don't use the boat that much (once or twice a month), and it is generally to just get in and out of the marina for a bit of sailing. 


Any help is appreciated.

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Re: [Electric Boats] Re: adding electric drive to existing diesel engine

 

Well, yeah, but then the motor would have the additional work of turning the engine over. Even with compression released, that is still a significant load, as you will know if you have ever hand started a small diesel. Unnecessary wear on the engine, too. The output shaft of the transmission is a better place to couple a motor because with the transmission in neutral, the motor does not have to turn the diesel.

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[Electric Boats] Recommendations on solar

 

I need to switch my boat over to solar charging of the 48v bank for motoring, and the 12v cabin stuff.  I will not have shore power at the new marina.  Anyone have recommendations on solar panels and charge controllers?


I have (4) 12v 105AH in series for the motor (48v), and a 12v 55AH for cabin.  I am hoping that solar will work  to keep the batteries topped up.  I don't use the boat that much (once or twice a month), and it is generally to just get in and out of the marina for a bit of sailing. 


Any help is appreciated.

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Posted by: scottcoo@gmail.com
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[Electric Boats] Re: adding electric drive to existing diesel engine

 

When I re-dieseled my H55, I put a roughly 8" diameter Eagle NRG gear right on the 1 1/4" driveshaft.  So all pieces along the shaft in order: prop, cutlass in strut, shaft log, NRG gear, coupler.  Then of course the output shaft of the transmission and the diesel engine.  The bad news: I have no data yet, no sea trials.

My whole hope with this simple hybrid setup, is to e-motor for 5 seconds to 5 minutes without having to fire up the diesel engine every time.  I take many people sailing on a handful of different sailboats, and the 5 seconds of rudder thrust really assures this long gal (H55) of coming about even when fore and mizzen sail trimmers are inexperienced.
I chose the NRG for decreased sound, increased longevity and efficiency.
From Goodyear: "Eagle NRG enhanced premium synchronous belts, with a patented H.O.T. (Helical Offset Tooth) design for reduced noise, reduced vibration, and increased efficiency, have increased horsepower and temperature ratings designed to perform."
Mark Stafford
 

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[Electric Boats] Re: adding electric drive to existing diesel engine

 

Thanks mike I was aware of these options but was looking for a "DO IT YOURSELF" option. as it does not make much sense to put a 6k unit into a 3 thousand dollar boat.
mike

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Wednesday, September 28, 2016

Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Decibels

 

John,

I believe direct drive has worked out for you. I continue to struggle with the gear reduction despite the general consensus from those that have been involved with E.P. reduction is necessary for proper cooling which translates into efficiency. Maybe the type of motor folks are using requires this reduction in order to handle the tourque requred to spin a prop without overheating. Being in the mechanical industry I have witnessed direct drive motors being more efficient in power consumption than their horsepower equivalent turning a sheave with a belt. CFM of air movement was identical between both fans & the direct drive won hands down in power consumption.
Hydronic circultors are vfd driven today & can operate at pretty low rpm's without overheating. So, I'm still seeking how to build a better mousetrap...

Bob

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On Fri, 9/23/16, 66b6dcd5b59507e7d751ea81382ea1f6 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Decibels
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, September 23, 2016, 3:11 AM

Hi Bob,

Fair enough. One point though
it's not a question of 'feeling' it works at
24V, it simply does. As you know it's all down to the
power a person requires. If you don't require much and
have an efficient system there is also no issue of
'running too hot'. Of course, I run in a UK Maritime
climate so that helps. My cruise speed is at peak efficiency
for my voltage too and any loss there compared to 48V is
made up by not having reduction gearing. The final issue
folk need to consider (and remember I'm a sailing yacht
not motor boat) is simply how long you can run for and what
continuous use time you need at your max anticipated
continuous current. The most I've ever run continuously
is 3 hrs and max temp has been 55C at the controller. Motor
has a heat sink too so no issues for either with heat.

John R.

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Posted by: bob jennings <sabre281@yahoo.com>
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