Monday, January 31, 2011

Re: [Electric Boats] Electric boating association in the US?

 

I think you answered your own question, go for it, full e-propulsion ahead !
What do you think, is this something that we need?




-----Original Message-----
From: John Paramore <watertoyz@frontier.com>
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, Jan 31, 2011 2:37 pm
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Electric boating association in the US?

 
I'd say the site's flying on autopilot. It has lists that note recent
EBA events and lists a near future upcoming marathon, but the site
seems a bare-bones operation at best.

The parent-Organization http://www.electric-boat-association.org.uk/
by comparison is a cascade of information and links, but no longer
links to EBAA.

In the early '90s after Ken Matthews started EBAA I was on the board.
The initial website was simple and pretty plain because the talent
and toys to set up a site were missing and a mystery then. The
current site's much tighter in layout and production value, but it
looks to me like a beacon of sorts aimed at testing membership
potential.

The listed email address is a commercial ISP, so if it's no longer
valid you should be getting a bounce message. Not getting a response
could mean anything from indifferent check-ins to demise of the
owner. I'd try leaving a message on the contact phone number.

John

On Jan 31, 2011, at 3:24 AM, ffmagellan02 wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> I just went electric with my Bristol 32 sailboat and it was the
> best thing I ever did. Without a doubt, installing an Asmo Marine
> Thoosa 9000 system on my boat, Intrepid, improved everything about
> my sailing experience. I am now a true believer that electric is
> definitely the way to go on the water- especially for auxiliary
> power on a sailboat. I'm sure we all agree, and that's why we
> joined, right?
>
> I'm just wondering, if anyone knows please tell me, is there an
> active Electric Boating Association of America? The EBAA website
> doesn't look like it is updated. I tried to contact them through
> the email on the website, to join but never got a response. It
> would seem that the EBAA, as a registered nonprofit would be in the
> best position to be our industry/ community's advocate and host
> things like a news blog for electric boating related news, have a
> collection of resources and a dedicated forum that anyone can join.
> What do you think, is this something that we need?
>
> I've been thinking lately that as wonderful as electric power is
> for boats, we really need to get the word out. Electric power for
> boats still hasn't gone totally mainstream and taken over
> combustion yet, but maybe with the way the world is now, and how
> practical we're showing it to be... maybe it's time?

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Re: [Electric Boats] Solar panels

 

Thanks a lot! Cheers!

--- On Mon, 1/31/11, chris Baker <chris@currentsunshine.com> wrote:

From: chris Baker <chris@currentsunshine.com>
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Solar panels
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, January 31, 2011, 10:22 PM

 

Hi there


I have Solara M panels on my boat and these are designed for marine use and you can walk on them.  They are a few mm thick and are mounted on a stainless steel plate. The panels can be curved a little to conform to a gentle deck curvature.  On my boat they a bonded to the deck using sikaflex.

here is link to a site that sells them here in Australia.  I couldn't fin the manufacturer's site (They are made in Germany) http://www.schionningdesigns.com.au/www/page.cfm?pageID=488

What I like about them is that they take up no room, no extra windage, and quite robust and well sealed.  Its seems that they are used on navigation buoys and other remote marine installations.

The drawback is that they are 2 to 3 times more expensive than regular solar panels.  But it would mean you could go ahead and build your hull in the normal way and then glue these on later.  And if one does get damaged somehow you can just take it off and replace it.  (Mine are 6 years old now and they are fine)

cheers

chris


On 01/02/2011, at 9:22 AM, Joe wrote:

 

I wanted to completely embed the PV panels in the upward facing portions of a fiberglass hull I'm building. Can this even be done? The idea is to be able to walk/stand/sit on them. Is this an awful Idea? Or is it awesome? really cant tell. I dont want to crush the cells and have no way of repairing them.



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Re: [Electric Boats] Solar panels

 

Hi there


I have Solara M panels on my boat and these are designed for marine use and you can walk on them.  They are a few mm thick and are mounted on a stainless steel plate. The panels can be curved a little to conform to a gentle deck curvature.  On my boat they a bonded to the deck using sikaflex.

here is link to a site that sells them here in Australia.  I couldn't fin the manufacturer's site (They are made in Germany) http://www.schionningdesigns.com.au/www/page.cfm?pageID=488

What I like about them is that they take up no room, no extra windage, and quite robust and well sealed.  Its seems that they are used on navigation buoys and other remote marine installations.

The drawback is that they are 2 to 3 times more expensive than regular solar panels.  But it would mean you could go ahead and build your hull in the normal way and then glue these on later.  And if one does get damaged somehow you can just take it off and replace it.  (Mine are 6 years old now and they are fine)

cheers

chris


On 01/02/2011, at 9:22 AM, Joe wrote:

 

I wanted to completely embed the PV panels in the upward facing portions of a fiberglass hull I'm building. Can this even be done? The idea is to be able to walk/stand/sit on them. Is this an awful Idea? Or is it awesome? really cant tell. I dont want to crush the cells and have no way of repairing them.


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[Electric Boats] Electric motor conversion

 

I have a golf cart, 48volt, with a working controller, charger, and transmission. I am wondering if I could use this set-up on a 40' houseboat. If I can do this, what size/type propeller should I use? Should I use the transmission with a larger propeller, or a pulley system directly to the motor. Or are there other options that are more efficient or better. I am new to the houseboat scene. My fiance and I are considering a livestyle change that involves cruising around the great american loop but starting in Jamaica. I believe an electric set up would serve our purposes best. Can someone out there help?

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Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Novice: Please advise

 

Thanks Eric. That is precisely the kind of info I was fishing for. This is going to be a longer project than I thought-but I'm having a blast learning. Fair winds to you as well.
-Joe

--- On Mon, 1/31/11, Eric <ewdysar@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Eric <ewdysar@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Electric Boats] Re: Novice: Please advise
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, January 31, 2011, 5:16 PM

 

Hi Joe,

Keep in mind that a boat hull doesn't care what generates the power, whether it's a gas engine, diesel engine, sails, pedals, paddles , oars or an electric motor. Each boat requires a given amount of power to reach and sustain a given speed. Since you used "water-ski speeds" as a reference, I'll assume that you are somewhat familiar with ski boats.

You're suggesting two individual 1/2hp motors for your boat. Have you even seen a boat with a 1hp outboard? At 12 feet, you're in a normal dinghy or open skiff range. The smallest readily available outboards are 2hp and a boat your size should be able to cruise at about 5mph with a 2hp engine. To go faster, you need more hp.

James Rudholm had an excellent page describing his conversion of an outboard to electric drive and the subsequent performance on his "Diablo". Unfortunately, it seems that those links are no longer working.

Another comparison are the commercially available Torqeedo motors. I've got a Torqeedo 801, it drives my 9' inflatible dinghy at about 4mph. The Torqeedo website has performance data for their motors on a variety of hulls. I suggest that you check them out so that you can get an idea of the relationship between power and speed for diffent types of boats.

http://www.torqeedo.com/us/hn/home.html

I applaud your experimental nature, but do enough research to make sure that you're headed in the right direction.

Fair winds,
Eric
Marina del Rey, CA.

--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "Joe" <jtolmanmitchell@...> wrote:
>
> As I am a novice, I feel It's a good idea to build a small scale project before getting in completely over my head with my dream boat.I have a feeling there are many experimental crafts on the horizon but I digress. I have committed to a 12' dual hull design (imagine a sail-less catamaran-I chose this design to maximize passenger and cargo space while trying to minimize drag) I'm not without means but I (and my 'boss') can't justify the expense of a brand new marine electric wheel.
>
> So my questions are as follows:
>
> 1) will the motor showcased in the following link work for a dual drive inboard application?
>
> 2)would a pair of these propel at water-ski speeds?
>
> 3)if this motor won't do the job, what kind of machines could I gut to find a suitable substitute. (washing machine, Drill press, table saw?)
>
> As always I appreciate all the knowledge the group has shared with me, so thanks in advance.
>


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[Electric Boats] Re: Novice: Please advise

 

Hi Joe,

Keep in mind that a boat hull doesn't care what generates the power, whether it's a gas engine, diesel engine, sails, pedals, paddles , oars or an electric motor. Each boat requires a given amount of power to reach and sustain a given speed. Since you used "water-ski speeds" as a reference, I'll assume that you are somewhat familiar with ski boats.

You're suggesting two individual 1/2hp motors for your boat. Have you even seen a boat with a 1hp outboard? At 12 feet, you're in a normal dinghy or open skiff range. The smallest readily available outboards are 2hp and a boat your size should be able to cruise at about 5mph with a 2hp engine. To go faster, you need more hp.

James Rudholm had an excellent page describing his conversion of an outboard to electric drive and the subsequent performance on his "Diablo". Unfortunately, it seems that those links are no longer working.

Another comparison are the commercially available Torqeedo motors. I've got a Torqeedo 801, it drives my 9' inflatible dinghy at about 4mph. The Torqeedo website has performance data for their motors on a variety of hulls. I suggest that you check them out so that you can get an idea of the relationship between power and speed for diffent types of boats.

http://www.torqeedo.com/us/hn/home.html

I applaud your experimental nature, but do enough research to make sure that you're headed in the right direction.

Fair winds,
Eric
Marina del Rey, CA.

--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "Joe" <jtolmanmitchell@...> wrote:
>
> As I am a novice, I feel It's a good idea to build a small scale project before getting in completely over my head with my dream boat.I have a feeling there are many experimental crafts on the horizon but I digress. I have committed to a 12' dual hull design (imagine a sail-less catamaran-I chose this design to maximize passenger and cargo space while trying to minimize drag) I'm not without means but I (and my 'boss') can't justify the expense of a brand new marine electric wheel.
>
> So my questions are as follows:
>
> 1) will the motor showcased in the following link work for a dual drive inboard application?
>
> 2)would a pair of these propel at water-ski speeds?
>
> 3)if this motor won't do the job, what kind of machines could I gut to find a suitable substitute. (washing machine, Drill press, table saw?)
>
> As always I appreciate all the knowledge the group has shared with me, so thanks in advance.
>

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Re: [Electric Boats] Solar panels

 

I use a pair Sunwize Solcharger SC24-12V panels on my boat.  They are made of FR4 plastic instead of the usual tempered glass so they wont shatter.  But I built a rigid base for them to be mounted to the cabin top so they can't flex if they get stepped on.  They can be replaced but it would take a bit of work to get them off.  I did this intentionally to reduce the chance of theft.


Is the surface you are building flat?  If so I would consider the FR4 based cells.  Otherwise there are flexible cells which would work but are less efficient.  Of course you can also buy the cells individually and string them together in series on a curved surface so long as the orientation of the individual cells in the series are not too different.


Will

On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 4:22 PM, Joe <jtolmanmitchell@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

I wanted to completely embed the PV panels in the upward facing portions of a fiberglass hull I'm building. Can this even be done? The idea is to be able to walk/stand/sit on them. Is this an awful Idea? Or is it awesome? really cant tell. I dont want to crush the cells and have no way of repairing them.


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[Electric Boats] Re: Solar panels

 

Joe, I developed solar encapsulations in the 80s and 90s and back then we were doing glass-to-glass.   These laminations were made up of a glass backing, an acrylic or EVA material in with the panels and a glass front.  Problem with these was cost and weight.   Just getting back into Solar now and it's a blast; now a days you can purchase fiberglass backed EVA laminated panels with real copper solder pads on the back.  They can come with crystalline, semi-crystalline or even some exotics but no matter which way you go, they're light and super easy to us.  problem is stiffness.  So for a deck, I'd get some panels with the expectation that they're to be discarded.  Build it into a prototype hull section using whatever method you want and test it.  Once you make a deck section that works, you've landed upon the correct formula.  


As for methods, Laminating panels in while the deck is molded seems to me to be too much risk,  all at once for a one-off.  I'm sure that if you could try it enough times to get it right and it's certainly possible but there's a lot at stake for a one-off run.   

If I were to do this, I'd laminate panels into deck cutouts.  EVA sheet is available on Ebay and some folks laminate EVA encapsulated panels with a hair-dryer.  That's very skill based too so I'd try epoxy and vacuum bags in a purpose-shaped inset in your deck after it's de-molded.  Be sure to wax the front of your panel before laminating so you can peel out the epoxy from the panel lens.  Epoxy is not UV resistant.  If yo ever need to remove the panel, Epoxy softens at a temperature considerably cooler than polyester.  

Good luck.  Joe
    
--
Joe Grez, President of PropEle Electric Boat Motors Inc.  makers of the Electric Paddle
www.electricpaddle.com
joe@propelemarine.com
425-241-9241
10404 428 ave se, North Bend Wa, 98045

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[Electric Boats] Solar panels

 

I wanted to completely embed the PV panels in the upward facing portions of a fiberglass hull I'm building. Can this even be done? The idea is to be able to walk/stand/sit on them. Is this an awful Idea? Or is it awesome? really cant tell. I dont want to crush the cells and have no way of repairing them.

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[Electric Boats] NOVICE: forgot to post the link

 
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[Electric Boats] Novice: Please advise

 

As I am a novice, I feel It's a good idea to build a small scale project before getting in completely over my head with my dream boat.I have a feeling there are many experimental crafts on the horizon but I digress. I have committed to a 12' dual hull design (imagine a sail-less catamaran-I chose this design to maximize passenger and cargo space while trying to minimize drag) I'm not without means but I (and my 'boss') can't justify the expense of a brand new marine electric wheel.

So my questions are as follows:

1) will the motor showcased in the following link work for a dual drive inboard application?

2)would a pair of these propel at water-ski speeds?

3)if this motor won't do the job, what kind of machines could I gut to find a suitable substitute. (washing machine, Drill press, table saw?)

As always I appreciate all the knowledge the group has shared with me, so thanks in advance.

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Re: [Electric Boats] Electric boating association in the US?

 

I'd say the site's flying on autopilot. It has lists that note recent
EBA events and lists a near future upcoming marathon, but the site
seems a bare-bones operation at best.

The parent-Organization http://www.electric-boat-association.org.uk/
by comparison is a cascade of information and links, but no longer
links to EBAA.

In the early '90s after Ken Matthews started EBAA I was on the board.
The initial website was simple and pretty plain because the talent
and toys to set up a site were missing and a mystery then. The
current site's much tighter in layout and production value, but it
looks to me like a beacon of sorts aimed at testing membership
potential.

The listed email address is a commercial ISP, so if it's no longer
valid you should be getting a bounce message. Not getting a response
could mean anything from indifferent check-ins to demise of the
owner. I'd try leaving a message on the contact phone number.

John

On Jan 31, 2011, at 3:24 AM, ffmagellan02 wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> I just went electric with my Bristol 32 sailboat and it was the
> best thing I ever did. Without a doubt, installing an Asmo Marine
> Thoosa 9000 system on my boat, Intrepid, improved everything about
> my sailing experience. I am now a true believer that electric is
> definitely the way to go on the water- especially for auxiliary
> power on a sailboat. I'm sure we all agree, and that's why we
> joined, right?
>
> I'm just wondering, if anyone knows please tell me, is there an
> active Electric Boating Association of America? The EBAA website
> doesn't look like it is updated. I tried to contact them through
> the email on the website, to join but never got a response. It
> would seem that the EBAA, as a registered nonprofit would be in the
> best position to be our industry/ community's advocate and host
> things like a news blog for electric boating related news, have a
> collection of resources and a dedicated forum that anyone can join.
> What do you think, is this something that we need?
>
> I've been thinking lately that as wonderful as electric power is
> for boats, we really need to get the word out. Electric power for
> boats still hasn't gone totally mainstream and taken over
> combustion yet, but maybe with the way the world is now, and how
> practical we're showing it to be... maybe it's time?

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